Cryptocoin Value and Market Trend Discussion

[ZenZimZaliben]

So you agree, but can't put your one foot in front of the other.
The problem is that fraud and market manipulation are traditionally considered fraud and market manipulation. In this case, not. In this case its just another day where the greedy and needy give the rich the money that they should have never gambled. Traditional securities have regulations. All regulations for crypto in the US have now been ebolished and the richest and most powerful are now openly pumping and dumping crypto with impunity. They have zero care for its future; only care for taking the value that they extract from it. How long do you think they will repeat their actions before trust is destroyed? Trust is destroyed more and more every day. And thus its value is destroyed. Thus it has no future. Its ultimate destiny is worthlessness. It's simple and obvious.
There is nothing complex about it to even confuse poor suckers that there is some additional value that they should invest in. It is simply a money exchange where hypers' cash out suckers' money. It can't go on forever before enough realize it.
Crypto failed its goals a decade ago. Now only the greedy and the needy fall for it.
Cash out before the majority do for you.

Don't worry. The stock market has greed and fraud too. It will also fall. Not as hard as crypto though. And fraud will at least be punishable. Even without any fraud, the stock market is facing a decline. When half the stock market is owned by boomers who will cash it out eventually, that future is sealed. Crypto, even more certainly doomed.

If you think that because crypto is worse than the stock market, that makes it better, I cannot help you.

Oh..ok you're one of those. Now I see! Yes!! I too wish we all lived in a Star Trek Utopia where no one has to work, there is no greed, no one is power hungry and everyone gets a purple sex alien of their choice...that sounds freaking awesome.

there are clear signs that not only is unregulated, but it's even going to get worst with Trump. At this moment actual crimes are being actively and purposefully ignored and criminals feel more bold with what they do. Trump is after all in on the crimes.

Again another opinion. I appreciate your view on Trump and bringing politics into the conversation, but I disagree. If anything the value will skyrocket if Trump does what he plans with a reserve of BTC.

 

[Bomby569]

Again another opinion. I appreciate your view on Trump and bringing politics into the conversation, but I disagree. If anything the value will skyrocket if Trump does what he plans with a reserve of BTC.

it's not an opinion, it's a fact, Melania and Trump coins were rug pulled by insiders. A lot of people that were being investigated by those crimes are now relieved

Under Trump, U.S. Increasingly Pulls Back From Crypto Crackdown

Going case by case, regulators have halted investigations and withdrawn or paused lawsuits against top crypto companies and their executives.

www.nytimes.com

Like i said you can't really go after crimes when you are doing them yourself

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

Oh, I thought you were talking about BTC. I don't really get into ALT coins that much, they are all pretty much shit. Everyone wants to be on the ground floor of another BTC like surge, and it has with ETH and XRP but I doubt either of those will over take BTC Market Cap. ALT Coins are just way to volatile for me and honestly that is saying a lot considering all the crazy swings I have been through with BTC and ETH.

 

[Bomby569]

Oh, I thought you were talking about BTC. I don't really get into ALT coins that much, they are all pretty much shit. Everyone wants to be on the ground floor of another BTC like surge, and it has with ETH and XRP but I doubt either of those will over take BTC Market Cap. ALT Coins are just way to volatile for me and honestly that is saying a lot considering all the crazy swings I have been through with BTC and ETH.

isn't this topic about crypto in general? there was no mention to bitcoin in your post.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

isn't this topic about crypto in general? there was no mention to bitcoin in your post.

It is and Alt coins are totally a topic. I am not suggesting people invest in ALT coins that is just to much of a gamble for me...but if you want to gamble it's also a way to make huge gains or huge losses. For actual investing I pretty much am only talking about the Top 10 or so, and not Tether. I guess when we talk about crypto in here most people aren't bringing in low ranking ALT coins. I am in general talking about the ones that make up 90%+ of market share. I get the miscommunication, you don't have any idea what coins I'm holding. However lower ranking ALT coins are open for conversation...didn't mean to state otherwise.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

It is true that it has no intrinsic value. - Opinion

Not opinion: lack of intrinsic value is the closest thing to incontrovertible fact in this entire discussion. Crypto is several steps removed from even the most basic of utility.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

Not opinion: lack of intrinsic value is the closest thing to incontrovertible fact in this entire discussion. Crypto is several steps removed from even the most basic of utility.

Yeah you're correct. I missed typed in my frenzy...Or maybe I meant in the Star Trek Utopia world, everything has Intrinsic value. yeah, yeah that's it.

 

[ty_ger]

Oh..ok you're one of those. Now I see! Yes!! I too wish we all lived in a Star Trek Utopia where no one has to work, there is no greed, no one is power hungry and everyone gets a purple sex alien of their choice...that sounds freaking awesome.

What? Are you serious? That seems like your perspective. You are advocating money for nothing. That's what crypto is. A magical box people put money in and others take money out of.

You have an interesting perspective and opinion.

 

[Bomby569]

It is and Alt coins are totally a topic. I am not suggesting people invest in ALT coins that is just to much of a gamble for me...but if you want to gamble it's also a way to make huge gains or huge losses. For actual investing I pretty much am only talking about the Top 10 or so, and not Tether. I guess when we talk about crypto in here most people aren't bringing in low ranking ALT coins. I am in general talking about the ones that make up 90%+ of market share. I get the miscommunication, you don't have any idea what coins I'm holding. However lower ranking ALT coins are open for conversation...didn't mean to state otherwise.

But the fact that Trump is deregulating the crypto space probably will also impact the major coins, it's almost inevitable when those sums of money are involved.

Not opinion: lack of intrinsic value is the closest thing to incontrovertible fact in this entire discussion. Crypto is several steps removed from even the most basic of utility.

fiat also has no intrinsic value since the gold standard was abandoned. Google it for one second

Fiat money does not have intrinsic value

Fiat Money vs. Commodity Money: Which Is More Prone to Inflation?

Learn more about commodity and fiat money and some of the differences between them. Find out when the U.S. abolished the gold standard.

www.investopedia.com

 

[80-watt Hamster]

fiat also has no intrinsic value since the gold standard was abandoned. Google it for one second

Fiat money does not have intrinsic value

Fiat Money vs. Commodity Money: Which Is More Prone to Inflation?

Learn more about commodity and fiat money and some of the differences between them. Find out when the U.S. abolished the gold standard.

www.investopedia.com

I never claimed otherwise.

 

[Bomby569]

I never claimed otherwise.

but that's the point, it's utility is not tied to it's intrinsic value, just like FIAT. It's not used in daily life as much as FIAT but you can use it, and it's used every day, every second.
Just like FIAT it's value is completely arbitrary and decided by supply and demand.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

but that's the point, it's utility is not tied to it's intrinsic value, just like FIAT. It's not used in daily life as much as FIAT but you can use it, and it's used every day, every second.
Just like FIAT it's value is completely arbitrary and decided by supply and demand.

The claim made was that crypto has no inherent value. There was then a counterclaim of that being an opinion. I then stated that the original claim (crypto has no inherent value) is not opinion, but fact. None of my contributions to the topic contain any commentary about the intrinsic value of fiat AFAICT. The statements "Crypto has no inherent value," and "Fiat has no inherent value," are both true and independent of each other.

If you want to get into opinion space about advantages and disadvantages about fiat v. commodity v. crypto, we can do so, but that's way beyond the scope of what I was trying to convey, and possibly outside the scope of this thread.

 

[Bomby569]

The claim made was that crypto has no inherent value. There was then a counterclaim of that being an opinion. I then stated that the original claim (crypto has no inherent value) is not opinion, but fact. None of my contributions to the topic contain any commentary about the intrinsic value of fiat AFAICT. The statements "Crypto has no inherent value," and "Fiat has no inherent value," are both true and independent of each other.

If you want to get into opinion space about advantages and disadvantages about fiat v. commodity v. crypto, we can do so, but that's way beyond the scope of what I was trying to convey, and possibly outside the scope of this thread.

Intrinsic value aside than, crypto has inherent value. You can literally use it to buy stuff, you can quantify it's value. That's not a fact at all, it's i guess your opinion and it an opinion with no merit

 

[80-watt Hamster]

Intrinsic value aside than, crypto has inherent value. You can literally use it to buy stuff, you can quantify it's value. That's not a fact at all, it's i guess your opinion and it an opinion with no merit

Seems like our disconnect stems from me mistakenly treating "inherent" and "intrinsic" as equivalent. My apologies.

Crypto and fiat exist in the same stratum in the utility hierarchy. Both exist as a means of exchange rather than as useful objects in their own right, derive their value based on social agreement, and require a framework to function.

I was using "intrinsic" incorrectly, but "inherent" correctly. The ability to buy things with crypto is not inherent value: It is derived value. If you can enumerate a way to use crypto to directly affect the world around you without any intermediate steps, I'll concede the point.

 

[Bomby569]

Seems like our disconnect stems from me mistakenly treating "inherent" and "intrinsic" as equivalent. My apologies.

Crypto and fiat exist in the same stratum in the utility hierarchy. Both exist as a means of exchange rather than as useful objects in their own right, derive their value based on social agreement, and require a framework to function.

I was using "intrinsic" incorrectly, but "inherent" correctly. The ability to buy things with crypto is not inherent value: It is derived value. If you can enumerate a way to use crypto to directly affect the world around you without any intermediate steps, I'll concede the point.

this is getting really confusing:
intrinsic just means value on it's own, we already discussed that
inherent just means what is it's value, and that is measured every day by the buyers vs sellers, close to 100k now.

derived value seems like you're grasping at straws to make your point. As per the dictionary here:

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/derive-value

it's it's value in relation to something else, not sure what that has to do with "directly affect the world around you without any intermediate steps". Nothing is my guess.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

this is getting really confusing:
intrinsic just means value on it's own, we already discussed that
inherent just means what is it's value, and that is measured every day by the buyers vs sellers, close to 100k now.

Hmm, I interpret those meanings the other way 'round. No wonder this discussion is going the way it is.

derived value seems like you're grasping at straws to make your point. As per the dictionary here:

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/derive-value

it's it's value in relation to something else, not sure what that has to do with "directly affect the world around you without any intermediate steps". Nothing is my guess.

You know, at this point I'm not even certain we disagree.

 

[the54thvoid]

I think you should both take it to PM. At this point you're sorta thread humping.

 

[MentalAcetylide]

But the fact that Trump is deregulating the crypto space probably will also impact the major coins, it's almost inevitable when those sums of money are involved.



fiat also has no intrinsic value since the gold standard was abandoned. Google it for one second

Fiat money does not have intrinsic value

Fiat Money vs. Commodity Money: Which Is More Prone to Inflation?

Learn more about commodity and fiat money and some of the differences between them. Find out when the U.S. abolished the gold standard.

www.investopedia.com

Imo, I think crypto is just another legalized form of gambling with minimal oversight. The stock market is typically the same way depending on what you're investing in, but has a lot more oversight. Deregulation is the last thing we need when it comes to crypto. There's so much money being thrown around in that market, its just an all-around retarded idea to deregulate it. Next thing you know, they'll be wanting to deregulate drugs, as it would be surprising if some of those lawmakers aren't already snorting something.