Cryptocoin Value and Market Trend Discussion

[ZenZimZaliben]

Unfortunately it is a real definition. We are all developing countries..even the most developed.

 

[ty_ger]

Sell, sell, sell.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

Hope you didn't sell.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

And I'm simply pointing out that, at least historically, the alternative has proved to be capable of doing far worse. The thing is that at least with bitcoin you lose money for pseudo random reasons, no one is really in control of it, meanwhile with those corporations and financial institutions it's all done knowingly and with malice. That makes if far worse in my opinion.


The institutions that are supposed to protect us proved to be incapable of stopping or preventing world wide financial crises, that's like the worst thing that can happen, I doubt economies will ever collapse because of crypto.

So...this is where we have to inherit some risks and understand them, rather than ask for a riskless system.

Let me be a little less obtuse...so I can be clear. The gold backed system of currency had relatively little risks associated with it. The amount of currency available was directly proportionate to a finite resource, you could trade between said finite resource and the currency, so everything was fine. The problem with the system is that as the amount of currency being demanded grew, the supply of said finite resource did not have the ability to scale. You couldn't have a huge economy with a gold standard, which meant you couldn't really have an economy unless there was an infinite supply of your finite resource. As such, the gold standard died...and the market became entirely about speculative values reinforced by perceived and agreed to things.

This is why we had things like the market collapse leading to the development of the FDIC in the US...something which caps the speculation and forces some resources to be liquid, despite not being able to generate money, to protect against small swings. IE, banks have to have xx% of their money liquid to allow customers to cash out without a run on the bank. It's why we've developed rules for trading....including insider trading. It's also why market manipulation is regulated...so nobody can buy up a ton of something and artificially influence prices with artificial scarcity. All of these things were not implemented at the start of these speculations, but only after bad things happened and governments collectively sought to protect people from bad actors.


What is the crypto equivalent? Well, nothing. It fluctuates without regulation, it operates with a functionally limited amount of resources which over time will decrease, and has the inherent negatives built into government backed monetary systems with no real 1:1 relationship. This is why people have likened it to beany babies, or even Lego. The value of this "currency" is not inherent, and the frankly silly amount that it's raised in price is...well, unsustainable. What keeps the value climbing is the same as Star Citizen...which is the inherent human flaw of viewing things as too big to fail because they've been around. The difference is that nobody can make an FDIC for crypto, and it's great for certain extralegal entities to have a convenient way to wash tons of money.



This is why support people spending their money, but I don't think that the long term value is going to be there. As with so many other things, it's going to take one immensely egotistical jerk to bomb the market's value by manipulating the currency at volume to make this stuff go poof. Whether that's a government trying to regulate it, find a way to track it and break the anonymity, or simply a crypto-bro deciding to mint a few million at the expense of billions, it's not worth it. I...think stocks and bonds hold more than enough risk for me. That's after a litany of regulations and protection agencies...that all attempt to patch a boat the everybody is trying to put holes into to make a quick dollar...Sisyphus weeps.

 

[ty_ger]

Sell, sell, sell.

We have reached max stupid. Open corruption is off the charts. Greed is off the charts. No one is watching out for you. You will lose your crypto 'investment' eventually, if all you do is wait. Only way to ensure you don't is to sell and buy real objects of real utility in your real life.

The people in power want to now remove FDIC insurance and allow private equity companies to leverage people's retirement funds. Maniacs.

Oh, yeah, they ran off the good woman at the FTC and the guy coming in is all for coorporate mergers.

Some people will make a lot of money, at the expense of the majority. Max greed.

Propery, garden, tractor, chickens, wood, fireplace, equipment, a hobby that can be turned into a business.... these are my priorities in this time of mental illness.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

Same exact statement could be made for trading stocks. The stock market, which I am in, is nearly 100% speculative and whales sometimes with no investment can still have a massive impact. Geez just look at what 1 CEO did to Quantum stocks just by stating it "could" be 30 years out. All those stocks went down 50%. Over massively overvalued companies that are propped up on stilts. Do you remember 2008 when the entire Real Estate sector went under? Those were tangible assets and yet...it crashed. So I don't think crypto is any better or worse than stock trading. At least the market cap is so high on the main coins that it's harder to manipulate vs a company with a market cap of 100m...that could be bought out on a whim by a competitor or billionaire.

 

[ty_ger]

Stock market has companies that make something, is more regulated, you have a way of measuring performance of a product of utility, and you can sell more easily for something you can use. These aren't certain with crypto.

But yes, the stock market is a terrible investment right now as well.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

Stock market has companies that make something, is more regulated, you have a way of measuring performance of a product of utility, and you can sell more easily for something you can use. These aren't certain with crypto.

But yes, the stock market is a terrible investment right now as well.

What do you consider a safe investment? Bonds? TBills? What do you actually invest in? I mean even having money sit in a bank is only insured up to 250k and you only get 4% if you are in a high yield account. Right now Crypto is outpacing the stock market in yearly return by about 300%, so you can't expect people not to invest in it. I mean we have to make money and hopefully retire someday. The old money in a mattress doesn't pay much interest. Plus at the rate of inflation money sitting in a bank is actually losing money (buying power).

 

[LFaWolf]

What do you consider a safe investment? What do you actually invest in?

Definitely Enron Carvana

No, on a serious note - don't buy Carvana stock. It could tank anytime. Don't blame me.

 

[ty_ger]

What do you consider a safe investment? Bonds? TBills? What do you actually invest in? I mean even having money sit in a bank is only insured up to 250k and you only get 4% if you are in a high yield account. Right now Crypto is outpacing the stock market in yearly return by about 300%, so you can't expect people not to invest in it. I mean we have to make money and hopefully retire someday. The old money in a mattress doesn't pay much interest. Plus at the rate of inflation money sitting in a bank is actually losing money (buying power).

I don't know. I have no answers. I just know it's bad right now. If they want to get rid of FDIC insurance to fix their current risk imbalance problem, you can't even trust in your bank, right. It's bad. It's all bad right now. Everything is running "hot" and looks amazing until you realize that it is barely holding together and you are getting record little for what you pay for. High risk, low reward. That's why I say sell.

I am investing in bonds and certified deposits for sources I can't liquidate, but mostly I am investing in real assets i can put my hands on and use in my real life to do real stuff.

Moving to a cheap/simple country is my goal, if things hold together long enough to do so.


Too much personal information.... gah

 

[Outback Bronze]

Hope you didn't sell.

Do you think we are getting close to market top though? For me it's hard to justify atm because of all this talk about SBR's (Strategic Bitcoin Reserves) turning into fruition. Will all these so call countries, states and governments pull the pin on it?

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

My bet is we hit 200k or close, by 2026. Crypto is one of the only thing out pacing inflation. I don't see investors backing down.

 

[ty_ger]

My bet is we hit 200k or close, by 2026. Crypto is one of the only thing out pacing inflation. I don't see investors backing down.

Until hardship causes the 1-in-5 leveraged investors to back out, which causes an abrupt crash as everyone runs to the door.
It is just a simple greater fool 'investment' after all with no product and no utility. It can't stand on its own without a healthy market around it. It has become the opposite of its stated goal.

 

[Outback Bronze]

My bet is we hit 200k or close, by 2026. Crypto is one of the only thing out pacing inflation. I don't see investors backing down.

I'm looking around the 150k mark give or take for this 4-year cycle. I'd be really happy with 200k though : )

What I'm a little worried about if these so called "SBR's" are going to break the 4-year tradition.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

I think with all these other countries getting involved it just cements BTC in further and will continue to strengthen it. However this will probably kill BTC as a usable currency because you can't sell if it is gaining so fast. I'm not buying a pizza with BTC because in 1 year that pizza is worth like $2000. I do think that other coins are going to take the center stage for usable currency. Ripple, Cardano, and Eth. The transaction cost on those are pennies compared to BTC. BTC will just be used as a value store and inflation offset. Especially in countries that have far worse inflation than the USA.

 

[ty_ger]

Interesting hippy context.

Our country doesn't know how it will make it to 2035. The balance is off and eventually we will have to face hardship. The longer we wait, the harder it will be. We keep saying that, but it keeps getting worse. We are at the start of a 'lost decade'. 2035 max according to everyone. Literally everyone. What do you think drives our rates? The only way around it is evil stealing from prey that no one has yet considered. 2028 seems reasonable. Even sooner, I think. We are only one trigger away from panic. Lots of triggers are on the table.

Please put aside at least something. Just in case.

I know most believe the thumbs up, not the truth, but maybe I can reach some. Certainly I am a thumbs down for many at the moment.

It's literally evil on all sides at the moment. Anyone who thinks otherwise, I don't know what world you live in. Anyone in touch with reality knows better. If you don't see it, you may be an accomplice.

My dad was a prophet. A nut-case. He is now dead. I didn't see it until much later. Now I am a nut-case. Eventually you will also see. .... Or... you know.... you could read.





Like.... wake up!! Our "richest" person in the world doesn't have enough money to pay his debts and overseas investors. Everyone is squeezing you. Everyone is greedy. Everyone is looking for their gimmick. Wake up! Nothing is magic. Nothing generates wealth out of nowhere. You are playing with a machine that you can't control.

Do you think we are getting close to market top though?

"Only an idiot tries to time the market." No offense, just a quote that comes to mind when that question is asked. If you are trying to find the top to sell at, it points to the lack of validity of the object in the first place. You are just one of many in a greater fool market.

 

[Vayra86]

Sell, sell, sell.

We have reached max stupid. Open corruption is off the charts. Greed is off the charts. No one is watching out for you. You will lose your crypto 'investment' eventually, if all you do is wait. Only way to ensure you don't is to sell and buy real objects of real utility in your real life.

The people in power want to now remove FDIC insurance and allow private equity companies to leverage people's retirement funds. Maniacs.

Oh, yeah, they ran off the good woman at the FTC and the guy coming in is all for coorporate mergers.

Some people will make a lot of money, at the expense of the majority. Max greed.

Propery, garden, tractor, chickens, wood, fireplace, equipment, a hobby that can be turned into a business.... these are my priorities in this time of mental illness.

Holy fck why does he scream at us all the time. Anyway, he has a point. Is 100k/btc max stupid though? I do think the moment is imminent, but then again, we've said that how many times now

 

[Bomby569]

I think with all these other countries getting involved it just cements BTC in further and will continue to strengthen it. However this will probably kill BTC as a usable currency because you can't sell if it is gaining so fast. I'm not buying a pizza with BTC because in 1 year that pizza is worth like $2000. I do think that other coins are going to take the center stage for usable currency. Ripple, Cardano, and Eth. The transaction cost on those are pennies compared to BTC. BTC will just be used as a value store and inflation offset. Especially in countries that have far worse inflation than the USA.

You can use fraction with any currency and BTC is no exception. The instability of the coin is what makes it impractical to every day use, not the face value today

 

[Caring1]

Sell, sell, sell.

We have reached max stupid. Open corruption is off the charts. Greed is off the charts. No one is watching out for you. You will lose your crypto 'investment' eventually, if all you do is wait. Only way to ensure you don't is to sell and buy real objects of real utility in your real life.

The people in power want to now remove FDIC insurance and allow private equity companies to leverage people's retirement funds. Maniacs.

Oh, yeah, they ran off the good woman at the FTC and the guy coming in is all for coorporate mergers.

Some people will make a lot of money, at the expense of the majority. Max greed.

Propery, garden, tractor, chickens, wood, fireplace, equipment, a hobby that can be turned into a business.... these are my priorities in this time of mental illness.

Agreed, and gold, anything tangible that can be traded in a physical form.