DDR4 3200 Hynix or Micron?

[sneekypeet]

I've never seen a statement like that before. Can you elaborate on this further?

Pretty simple I think. AMD supports ECC RAM, all motherboards "should" offer this capability to stick in ECC sticks into a "mainstream" rig.

The way I was to understand is that there is some built in ECC for when you push shit too far. Not that it will stop all damages from an unstable overclock, but I have yet to kill an OS like I did all the time with older systems. Even my 3900X system seems to deliver some form of protection here, as I am still on the original OS I started with on that rig.

 

[A Computer Guy]

Pretty simple I think. AMD supports ECC RAM, all motherboards "should" offer this capability to stick in ECC sticks into a "mainstream" rig.

As far as I have seen (from manuals and online spec sheets) desktop motherboard and CPU must support ECC otherwise when you stick ECC into an AM4 board it will simply operate as a normal ram stick (non-ECC mode). The non-PRO APU's don't support it at all and the non-PRO CPU's simply don't have it disabled.

The way I was to understand is that there is some built in ECC for when you push shit too far.

I've simply never heard that before however I think memory technology has gotten significantly better each generation so manufacturers could continue to get away without having to implement ECC ram (and the cost of it) in the normal consumer space.

Secondly, both sets of RAM you want, or listed in the OP, are complete shit as far as what that CPU wants for performance.
This is why you are getting flack from members, as they are trying to redirect your thoughts and put you in a better possition overall.

Honestly I think there was a bit of confusion in the OP's original post. Initially when I saw CL22 I thought the OP was either talking about laptop or "server" memory because otherwise it doesn't make a lot of sense for desktop to put a CL22 kit when there is plenty affordable CL16/CL18 desktop kits. If you just live in the desktop space normally one might not associate 5000 AMD CPU's with laptop chips but there are 5000 series mobile chips. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryzen#Ryzen_5000) It wasn't until later ECC entered the chat that it became more clear what the OP was looking for but there is apparently not much higher performance / high capacity options available in the ECC consumer space.

It's too bad Tom's Hardware review didn't compare Mushkin's kits performance against other DDR4 ECC kits.

 

[Count von Schwalbe]

@sneekypeet I thought the ECC had to be supported by all three pieces - CPU, MB, and RAM.

If you mean that Ryzen has a CPU-side bus error correction that makes sense, but for full error correction you would still need ECC RAM.

 

[sneekypeet]

@sneekypeet I thought the ECC had to be supported by all three pieces - CPU, MB, and RAM.

If you mean that Ryzen has a CPU-side bus error correction that makes sense, but for full error correction you would still need ECC RAM.

To clarify, I misspoke. I was on about ddr5 and not ddr4. It's built into ddr5.

 

[Steevo]

Then go Hynix! Who doesn't want butterflies?

So we all agree we like butterflies.

OP how do you feel about them?

 

[A Computer Guy]

To clarify, I misspoke. I was on about ddr5 and not ddr4. It's built into ddr5.

On-die ECC is built into DDR5 chip because there is enough of a problem in their construction/design that the chips need error correction internally.
There is a post here with some good links. https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/unbuf-ecc-regular-desktop-driver-pc.300351/post-4869411

It won't correct data transfers to/from the CPU and more importantly won't report errors. This is what kind of bothers me about DDR5. What if you get a module that has a defective enough chip that it ends up error correcting so much that it kills performance of your module?

 

[Cowboystrekk]

I'd be willing to hear any OC advice you might have for the Nemix kit I have listed below. I think it's Micron rev E but I could be wrong.

Nemix 64GB Unbuffered ECC kit
( 32GB modules, 2Rx8, DDR4-3200, CL22, 1.2v )
Chips that came on my modules: OTE75-D9ZFV

FBGA & part decoder

Micron's FBGA Parts Decoder tool simplifies the identification of Micron semiconductor components

www.micron.com

part no: MT40A2G8JC-062E:E

https://media-www.micron.com/-/media/client/global/documents/products/data-sheet/dram/ddr4/16gb_ddr4_sdram.pdf?rev=bbe79ab4b3f547e08817f6ede1850c50

From notes I previously posted some time ago I seem to have had a difficult time with DDR4-3400 so I was trying to go the other way and improve the timings at DDR4-3200.
This is as far as I got before I got too busy to fully validate for stability.
https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...ing-or-busted-custom-loop.297316/post-4808626
(the link should take you to the part of the post with the screen shot of the ram and spreadsheet of memory settings)

In thaiphoon burner, do they report as rev E? Bullzoid tested 10 different rev Es with varying bins and all did 4900-5100MHz at 1.55-1.7v. Rev E handles a lot if voltage and insane speeds. Dual rank is a bit more difficult, but send me a PM and I can try to help. If binning is really poor you may have to raise RCDRD and RC a lot to make them run 3600+. I have tuned several rev E-kits and at 3800 1.45v they all do:
CL 15-16
RCDRD 17-22
RP 11-16
RRDS/L 4/4-6
FAW 16
RC 52-60
RFC 536-592
WR/RTP 10-16/5-8

The biggest variance is in RCDRD where a typical 3200cl16 kit needs 20-22, while a 3600cl16kit often can run 17.

The way you posed the question, it's not possible to provide a well reasoned answer. Can't just vaguely pick and choose between two memory makers without knowing what you're buying.

Like any other manufacturer, Hynix ranges from utter garbage (4Gb AFR(?), 8Gb JJR) to lackluster (16Gb MJR) to good value (8Gb CJR, 16Gb CJR(?)) to one of the best DDR4 OCers money can buy (8Gb DJR).

You also need to make sure of the density. On the 3200CL22 list for Kingston I only see 16Gb CJR for Hynix. It's a new chip and is not quite the same as the ubiquitous 8Gb CJR. @ir_cow did a recent review on Intel (Forza kit??) that had 16Gb CJR, primary timings looked somewhere between CJR and DJR but other details are scarce.

Between Hynix 8Gb CJR and Micron 8Gb Rev.E, the latter has a lot more absolute OC headroom (probably irrelevant if ECC), but at the same speed CJR usually tightens up better than Rev.E. Only a slight difference, however.



That ain't ECC

In general rev E would perform better than CJR since many CJR-kits struggle with above 1.4v. Rev E handles 1.5v+ without additional cooling.

At 3800 typical Rev E vs CJR
CL 15 VS 16
RCDRD 20 VS 19
RP 12 VS 19
RC 54 VS 52
RRD/FAW 4/16 VS 5/20
RFC 560 VS 500

Here they tie in performance, but if you up voltage on rev E you can usually do cl14. Command rate 1t gdm off is usually easier on rev E SR, vs CJR.

 

[tabascosauz]

At 3800 typical Rev E vs CJR
CL 15 VS 16
RCDRD 20 VS 19
RP 12 VS 19
RC 54 VS 52
RRD/FAW 4/16 VS 5/20
RFC 560 VS 500

Here they tie in performance, but if you up voltage on rev E you can usually do cl14. Command rate 1t gdm off is usually easier on rev E SR, vs CJR.

I didn't say the difference was significant. Highly doubt OP is looking to run 1.5V on ECC, if they were aiming for 1.5V then nothing from Hynix except DJR qualifies anyways.

All the "CJR" in Kingston's ECC lineup at that speed are 16Gb CJR. I can't find any reference in Kingston specs/datasheets to Rev.E, only 8Gb DJR, 16Gb CJR, 8Gb "Rev.R" and 16Gb "Rev.F".

Kingston Server Memory: DDR4 3200MT/s ECC Unbuffered DIMM - Kingston Technology

The Mushkin 3200CL14 and 3600CL16 ECC kits that Tom's reviewed look like a much better performance choice for less effort. Ryzen ECC support is unofficial anyway, and relies heavily on board support.

 

[Valantar]

Why should have I? I just asked about the differences between chips from two different manufacturers. Everything else is irrelevant.

No, it isn't.

The question was not vague. Read it again, please. I just wanted to hear "Hynix" or "Micron". It was a very exact question

This is precisely the problem - your question was premised on there being broad quality differences between manufacturers, which there aren't in the way you presumed. Thus your question doesn't work, and leads to more questions in order to figure out what advice is actually relevant to you. It wasn't vague, but it was misguided. You were told as much in one of the first responses to your question: that both manufacturers have good and bad product series, and that this is what matters, not the manufacturer itself.

Also: if you're running ECC at stock JEDEC settings, there is literally no difference between manufacturers, as they're all guaranteed to work the same. That's the point of standards. There will be minor differences in subtimings, but those are mostly irrelevant at JEDEC speeds.

This is why giving all relevant information to the people you're asking advice from is crucial. It's literally impossible to give relevant advice without knowing the situation it applies to.

You presuming that this was a simple question of one manufacturer being better than the other and that nothing else was relevant just demonstrates that your lack of knowledge was much deeper than your base idea of "I don't know who is better among these two chipmakers". You didn't understand what you were asking. Please don't get angry at people trying to actually help you.

 

[Mussels]

Wow this threads a mess
You asked half a question without any background information and have just had a tantrum over people asking for more information.


The answer to your question changes with that extra context.

Try again more politely, no one owes you help and you won't get any with an attitude like that.

 

[A Computer Guy]

In thaiphoon burner, do they report as rev E? Bullzoid tested 10 different rev Es with varying bins and all did 4900-5100MHz at 1.55-1.7v. Rev E handles a lot if voltage and insane speeds. Dual rank is a bit more difficult, but send me a PM and I can try to help. If binning is really poor you may have to raise RCDRD and RC a lot to make them run 3600+. I have tuned several rev E-kits and at 3800 1.45v they all do:
CL 15-16
RCDRD 17-22
RP 11-16
RRDS/L 4/4-6
FAW 16
RC 52-60
RFC 536-592
WR/RTP 10-16/5-8

The biggest variance is in RCDRD where a typical 3200cl16 kit needs 20-22, while a 3600cl16kit often can run 17.

Wow that sounds amazing. I'll double check thaiphoon burner but I'm pretty sure it reported garbage other than the default timings. I think my first step is to try and get more confirmation that the D9ZFV chip is really E-die.

I'll DM you when I'm ready. My experimenting will have to be just a few hours at a time late nights.

 

[Steevo]

Wow this threads a mess
You asked half a question without any background information and have just had a tantrum over people asking for more information.


The answer to your question changes with that extra context.

Try again more politely, no one owes you help and you won't get any with an attitude like that.

I vote for it to be moved to GN as a butterfly thread. Shall I start with the butterfly pictures, I was hoping ZeFrank had some butterfly related material but alas, just dragonflies

 

[R-T-B]

Hi,
Seen lots of people using non-ecc memory on 5k amd "you included" so not sure why op needs it.

That wasn't the question.

 

[Valantar]

Pretty simple I think. AMD supports ECC RAM, all motherboards "should" offer this capability to stick in ECC sticks into a "mainstream" rig.

The way I was to understand is that there is some built in ECC for when you push shit too far. Not that it will stop all damages from an unstable overclock, but I have yet to kill an OS like I did all the time with older systems. Even my 3900X system seems to deliver some form of protection here, as I am still on the original OS I started with on that rig.

That the os tries to avoid data corruption is not the same as ECC, nor really comparable at all. The OS can do this through scanning for and fixing errors after the fact, as well as handling non-critical errors as they arrive. ECC RAM protects data in flight and while stored in RAM, regardless if the cpu has the time to do anything with it - not fixing errors as they arrive at the OS level or after the fact, but ensuring they never arrive in the first place.

(As for your OS install: check the event log! Chances are there are all kinds of silent minor errors that the OS and software are just ignoring.)

As for AMD and ECC: as long as the motherboard vendor enables it. I have no trouble running DDR4-ECC in my Biostar X370GTN, but YMMV - it also lists ECC RAM supports (not further specified IIRC) in its spec sheet. I've seen people report boards that fail to recognize the DIMMs at all, indicating a vendor that has explicitly disallowed ECC RAM in BIOS, and many AMD boards don't actually list ECC support. It might be there, it might not.

 

[A Computer Guy]

Hi!

I intend to buy a Kingston-branded DDR4 3200 CL22 memory. There are 2 variants available which both has the exactly same parameters (according to the datashit), the only difference being Hynix vs. Micron chips. Hynix is about 5-10€ cheaper (but that may be due to other factors).
I intend to try to do a slight OC eventually.

Is there a reason to go for Micron rather then Hynix?

The target is AMD Ryzen 5000 series.

OP did you reach a decision on the model to buy?
Can you enter your system specs in your profile?
I would be interested in comparing performance specs with your ram choice.
Originally I had considered Kingston brand before deciding on Crucial and then later Nemix.

 

[Butrus]

OP did you reach a decision on the model to buy?

Yes, the Micron model got yet another 30€ more expensive per stick in the meantime .
So I bought the Hynix one...

 

[mplayerMuPDF]

Hynix is Korea and it has butterfly on it

Actually, I believe Hynix DRAM is made in their Chinese factories, unlike their NAND, which is made in South Korea

 

[Butrus]

Can you enter your system specs in your profile?
I would be interested in comparing performance specs with your ram choice.

Done for the moment.

 

[Lei]

Actually, I believe Hynix DRAM is made in their Chinese factories, unlike their NAND, which is made in South Korea

No matter where the factory is located, it's under quality assurance of Korea and your purchase will contribute to Korean economy

 

[Butrus]

So I now checked again, the Micron variant is no more available, the Hynix went from ~134€/stick to 233€/stick in less than a week. Crazy times...

 

[Lei]

So I now checked again, the Micron variant is no more available, the Hynix went from ~134€/stick to 233€/stick in less than a week. Crazy times...

 

[Hofnaerrchen]

Hi!

I intend to buy a Kingston-branded DDR4 3200 CL22 memory. There are 2 variants available which both has the exactly same parameters (according to the datashit), the only difference being Hynix vs. Micron chips. Hynix is about 5-10€ cheaper (but that may be due to other factors).
I intend to try to do a slight OC eventually.

Is there a reason to go for Micron rather then Hynix?

The target is AMD Ryzen 5000 series.

I was using a 32GB Crucial Kit (CT2K16G4DFD832A) for more than 2 years without any problems, first on Zen+ and later on Zen 3. As you are targeting to get JEDEC spec DDR 4 3200 RAM it's more than likely there will be no big difference in terms of brand unless you want to OC your RAM, what I would not do with that kind of memory nonetheless. If you want more performance rather go straight for a CL18 3600 kit. As those kits are quite common these days they might be even cheaper than JEDEC spec RAM.

 

[mplayerMuPDF]

No matter where the factory is located, it's under quality assurance of Korea and your purchase will contribute to Korean economy

Actually, I have read some not so positive things about Samsung, SK (of which SK Hynix is a part nowadays) and other chaebols, so I am wary of supporting these companies precisely because I care about South Korea. Ironically I have lots of Korean memory because ProBooks and EliteBooks seem to almost always come with either Samsung or Hynix RAM and I have multiple 860 Evos and I think there is a PM961 in the 725 G4 that I have, but I bought those 860 Evos before I knew about Samsung's dark secrets (at least to the vast majority of people in the West) and the laptops are all second hand. But now when I have the choice I prefer to buy Crucial (Micron) RAM, which is made in Singapore, and Crucial/Micron or Kioxia (NAND is made in Japan) SSDs. Of course, a lot of stuff (but definitely not all contrary to what some people always say, perhaps just as a way to throw up their hands and pretend that there is nothing they can do) is made in China and I try to avoid that too now that the UN has confirmed (before I was skeptical due to the sources of the accusations, which have their own interests) that some seriously bad stuff is going on there and while I am not here to moralize and call for a boycott, I personally do not want to buy anything that was made with forced labor, especially not as a part of a terror and subjugation campaign against a specific ethnic and/or religious group. So yeah, it is pretty difficult these days to buy electronics that were manufactured in an at least semi-ethical way. All the more reason to buy second hand as much as possible in my opinion and to in general not buy things you don't really need.