Dell Workstation Owners Club

[Retrorockit]

AMD cards are known to be power hungry compared to Nvidia. But thanks for the confirmation about the Dell PSUs capability. Also for getting the AMD stuff to work on these machines.
The 525W PSU lists 3x 18A. 12V. rails which adds up to about 650W. But it also says max. output is 500W combined 12V. power. Of course Dell expects there workstations to be running 24/7 for some of their customers. There is another 20A. on the 5V. rail. IDK what happens if you try to pull 600W.+ 12V. from one, but Dell PSUs typically just shut down without any damage to the system when overloaded.

 

[lardyl]

Hi Guys
I'm new here but not new to Dell Precisions. Had a M90 and M4600 laptop from new and a T5500 from new. The old workstation is about dead and I'm trying to revive it or a secondhand one that I just bought. So I've a few questions.

My old one is a X5550 based dual processor machine with the older (?) D883F mobo.
The newer one is E5503 dual processor and dual core with the CRH6C mobo.

I am wondering if the two motherboards have the same chipset and can accept RAM and processors from each other?

The CRH6C seems very fussy about RAM (only works with the Riser in/out and 2+1+1on the main board *not* with 2+1+1 in the riser as well). So I can only run one machine with 4Gb of ram at present.

The D883F wants to power off abruptly a couple of minutes after booting each time.

I suspect that there might be issues with processors on both boards?

Maybe memory management on the newer one and thermal protection on the older one as I get an error report (if the machine doesn't power down beforehand) indicating lthr?? (didn't get time to see it as the machine powered off)

Before I go and get some thermal paste and a new processor or swap over all the RAM sticks I have ( I have 6x 4Gb matched, 4x4Gb matched, 2x 4Gb matched and the original ram from my machine when new - that seems the most stable - 2x2Gb matched and 4x1Gb matched) ..

.... is there anything else I should know?

The failures on the newer machine happen before POST, after POST, before Wind10 splash screen, during Win10 splash screen and after windows has begun to load. Which is really frustrating. I'm getting lots of DIMM1 and DIMM3 errors after POST and some double beeps and blank screens, depending on which RAM is where....

Cheers, LL

 

[Retrorockit]

The memory controller on the newer 56xx series CPUs is much better than the one on the older 55xx Xeons. The older one drops speed as you add modules, the newer one holds 1333 on most configurations.
An X5687 (or 2) with 6x4GB RAM would be a huge upgrade from the 2x2 E5503 setup.
Some of your memory issues may be from running dual channel configuration on a 3 channel MB. They should work in "compatability mode" but it's just more stress on the CPU's memory controller, and some of the RAM may end up running single channel speed.
You will probably need a BIOS update to get support for the newer CPUs.
I recall one of the vendors telling me that early T5500 MB had problems with the riser socket for the 2nd CPU.

 

[lardyl]

Thanks for that advice Retrorockit.
I'm digging deeper with the newer machine that doesn't have the power issue and has the DIMM3 issue.

Found that I can populate every mobo DIMM slot (1-6) (with riser removed) except for DIMM3 with 4Gb sticks and it is stable. Now if I put a 4Gb stick in DIMM3 it fails to get past the Win10 splash screen. But if I change that for a lower speed 2Gb stick in DIMM3 this works as well! Boots to Win10 and does everything promised with the extra RAM recognised. Now that is something of a turn up for the books. I don't understand why 4Gb fails and 2Gb works, maybe due to width of the channel....?

Not sure exactly how we progress from here but I've been advised to check some other possible issues:
CPU socket bent pins
CPU fouled sockets
DIMM3 clean socket
DIMM3 check for bent pins

So will pull the CPUs and have a look and probably then upgrade the CPU in case it's an onboard CPU memory management issue.

I do have a question about upgrading to the X5687 or X5690. What RAM timings do I need for these processors?
I have 1333 RAM available to populate the main board and the riser.
And if I don't populate DIMM3 on the mainboard will that have a significant impact on the operation in windows - I use the machine mainly for CFD modelling of fires and the odd bit of video editing along with a little bit of gaming

Cheers, LL

Oh and one more thing.....can the A18 BIOS CRH6C mobo cope with the 6 core processors like X5650 ?
That seems to be the best value processor as a server pull from AliExpress at the moment.
Thanks Again, LL

 

[Retrorockit]

All the MB can run the 6 cores with the correct BIOS. RAM speed is 1333 on the high end Xeons, but 1066 on the i7 and some of the slower Xeons. The 5650 is Ok there. The 4 core CPUs were almost all 45nm, the 6 cores are 32nm so they draw about the same power. The X5687 is a 32nm 4 core 8 thread and runs much faster due to that.
Does that 4GB module work if it's installed in another slot? 6x4GB is a good setup. Some people are running 6x8GB single CPU on X58 so bandwidth isn't the problem.

 

[lardyl]

...Does that 4GB module work if it's installed in another slot? 6x4GB is a good setup. Some people are running 6x8GB single CPU on X58 so bandwidth isn't the problem.

The 3rd white DIMM slot on the main board won't take a 4Gb stick and I've tried about 10 different sticks of 3 different types (all 1333 from this and another machine) but it will take one 2Gb (that's a 1066 stick that came with my X5505 machine when new).
I've also put a 2Gb stick in the 3rd black DIMM slot on the motherboard and that's fine.
The riser won't take any RAM as far as I can tell but the riser CPU is working. If I put any more on the riser (in any slot or all of them) then there is a BIOS error reported and windows reports 20Gb not the 32Gb installed.
I might go with a single CPU and 24Gb on the machine that works and then have a go sorting the other one, which has a better PSU and might just need another CPU. So I was thinking of sourcing 2 or 3 CPUs from China of X5550 (at $5 each) and a couple of the 6 core processors, either 5675 or 5650 (the former is twice the price but might be worthwhile).

 

[lardyl]

Given that the riser isn't working in my system then perhaps I could go for a single 6 core CPU? Maybe the X5680 or X5690?
As those are 130W CPUs do they need improved cooling solutions with the heatsink that has the heatpipes? Or can you repurpose a heatsink from the riser - I have a spare riser to play with...... the heatsink on the riser looks similar (underneath the fan and plastic casings) to the bare heatsink for the mainboard....??

 

[Retrorockit]

130W CPUs were standard on those so that's not an issue. Most people just add an extra 80/92mm fan to the stock cooler. Unfortunately the T5500 chipset requires dual CPU procs. to run so overclocking isn't an option.

 

[Retrorockit]

In the Throttlestop Overclocking thread about a week ago there was discussion about some self regulating fans that don't need a PWM header to run. Some part# were given there.
The only issue with the riser heatsink is it may not clear the HDD tray correctly. The HDD tray is part of the cooling. It forms a duct with the case,the MB, and the RAM shroud to force all the air through the front CPU cooler and over the VRM MOSFETS. I don't own one so I can't say for sure. But even overclocked an added heatsink fan is all that's needed.

If anyone here is interested Mangupta just posted #770 a tuorial in the Throttlestop Overclocking thread on getting an NVME PCIe SSD to boot Windows on a T3500. Definitely a performance mod, but productivity should improve also.

 

[lardyl]

My heatsinks are plain aluminium alloy (and I'm not sure how they could have a fan directly attached unlike the riser CPU heatpipe model). Mine look like these:

 

[ManGupta]

My heatsinks are plain aluminium alloy (and I'm not sure how they could have a fan directly attached unlike the riser CPU heatpipe model). Mine look like these:View attachment 135002

what is yr system ? T3500? T5500? T7500?

This heatsinks in yr system is pathetic and needs replacement with something like

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or

US $30.8 |U016F for Precision T3500 T5500 T7500 CPU Cooling Heatsink|Servers| - AliExpress

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www.aliexpress.com

 

[Retrorockit]

The riser heatsink is almost identical to the front CPU heatpipe cooler, and already has a fan. Some people say they fit.
The aluminum cooler is for 65W 2 core CPUs. They use the same X58 foootprint and mounting. I would try it.

 

[lardyl]

Thanks guys.

ManGupta, I have 2 T5500s. One original to me from new, with 2xX5550s and the other with 2xE5502s (now they are puny Xeons). Both had the fin only heatsinks fitted. I suspected that the riser had a similar h-sink to the one for the main CPU slot (would make sense) but having stripped several Dell laptops (for work on investigations into fires) I didn't want to risk stripping one of the risers down an fitting it to the CPU on the main board only to find it fouled the ram air duct.

But I have a friend who used to buy these used and sell them on, waiting for him to come up with a heat sink as suggested. If not I'll probably buy from Ali Express as suggested. Cheers.

Talking about puny..... Back in the day when I was ahead of the game in computer tech we had a heatsink like this one.... on the voltage regulator (top right corner). Mine used to get very hot so we put it on some fly leads and dangled it off the board into a coffee cup. So not quite that setup. I still have one of these in my parents' attic somewhere. It was still working in the 90s.

That was a 6502 onboard (just above the keys in the centre) running at 1.0Mhz, with a base of 4k of system ram, 1k of screen ram and a baud rate of 300 bps, recording data to compact cassettes.

 

[Retrorockit]

The difference in the heatsink itself is that the one for the MB has one heatpipe shorter than the others. The HDD cables run up through there. This seems to be to allow a larger radius if the wires get caught between the tray and the heatsink. I move the wires to behind the tray instead of under it to make room for a fan.
FWIW the wiring under the MB ties you into the modular Dell PSU wiring harness. You can change the PSU but the harness is built in. If an aftermarket PSU is in your plans you might want to move the wiring out from behind the MB anyway.

Redirect Notice

 

[ManGupta]

Thanks guys.

ManGupta, I have 2 T5500s. One original to me from new, with 2xX5550s and the other with 2xE5502s (now they are puny Xeons). Both had the fin only heatsinks fitted. I suspected that the riser had a similar h-sink to the one for the main CPU slot (would make sense) but having stripped several Dell laptops (for work on investigations into fires) I didn't want to risk stripping one of the risers down an fitting it to the CPU on the main board only to find it fouled the ram air duct.

But I have a friend who used to buy these used and sell them on, waiting for him to come up with a heat sink as suggested. If not I'll probably buy from Ali Express as suggested. Cheers.

Talking about puny..... Back in the day when I was ahead of the game in computer tech we had a heatsink like this one.... on the voltage regulator (top right corner). Mine used to get very hot so we put it on some fly leads and dangled it off the board into a coffee cup. So not quite that setup. I still have one of these in my parents' attic somewhere. It was still working in the 90s.

That was a 6502 onboard (just above the keys in the centre) running at 1.0Mhz, with a base of 4k of system ram, 1k of screen ram and a baud rate of 300 bps, recording data to compact cassettes.

View attachment 135068

X5550 is 95 watt TDP and E5502 is 80 waats TDP whereas That Aluminium heatsink is only 65 watts TDP.

Edit: Sorry I had not read your earlier posts and hence was not aware about the issues in your system. The raise CPU Cooler HS is of same size compared to U016F heatsink but with one pipe shorter to accommodate for cables to the HDD Tray . So you may consider moving the spare raiser HS to mainboard if you move the HDD from tray to the area below Optical Drive, or you may rewire the cables and donot route it through under the MB. Both U016F and raiser HS is capable of 130 watt TDP CPUs (6 core cpus).
The X5690 is very expensive on ebay/aliexpress, and X5675/X5680/X5687 will give better value in terms of cost to performance ratio. But if price is not a concern to you X5690 will give slight advantage in performance ....... but only a marginal advantage. But if you get a good deal locally in X5690 then that's it.

 

[Susquehannock]

The X5687 is a great price to Mhz ratio if 4 core CPU is acceptable. Only stumbling block I see using the riser cooler on the main board socket is getting power to the fan since it draws from headers on the riser itself. Easily addressed with some wiring. The U016F cooler is actually very good. Places all heatpipes across air flow as opposed to many aftermarket cooler where they are behind eachother. Mount a fan on there and it's even better. Once that is done ducting effect from the swing out HDD panel is no longer needed. My preference is to remove it and associated wiring altogether and mount drives up top. Actually space for three if done right. Places them directly behind the front air vent, provided that bay has not been populated by an optical drive.

 

[ManGupta]

The D883F wants to power off abruptly a couple of minutes after booting each time.

Maybe the Power Supply is on the verge of failing .....

Have you checked / diagnosed this system with another PSU ?

 

[Susquehannock]

PSU is a good thought. A multimeter attached during BOOT power off issue may show spike or drops in respective voltages.

Would also like to mention possibility of bad capacitors. Inspect closely but know they can appear fine and still be defective. 'D883F' is indeed the earlier T5500 board and uses United Chemicon KZG series caps that are known to be failure prone. Dell was heavily fined for intentionally hiding this from customers. A fact that soiled their reputation and likely resulted in their fall from top dog to distant third in the business computer market.

Image below is a comparison of D883F and newer CRH6C T5500 boards that show capacitor change. From what I have seen this extends to T3500 boards, and the small I/O front panel daughter board as well. Part #M884G. Have fixed boot, thermal probe, and fan errors by replacing with a newer one that had the Rubicon brand caps. And re-produced same errors by putting old one back. New unused parts can still be found. Though it may be difficult to tell which the vendor is offering. Cannot hurt to ask. Something to consider.

 

[Retrorockit]

The notches in the top of the caps are for pressure release to avoid explosions, any swelling or dark staining in the grooves is a sign of failure.
There is a funny twist to the bad capacitor story. They came about because someone stole a secret capacitor formula, and it got used. The secret was the formula was no good. Industrial espionage gone wrong.

 

[Nater]

Just saw this thread, we have T3620's here at work, against my wishes. (I wanted to build my own rig)

Core i7 6700K, 16GB ram, Quadro K620.

I'll never let my work buy another Dell Workstation on the simple fact that they sold us "K" series CPU's, and the multiplier is completely locked down in the bios.

 

[ManGupta]

Just saw this thread, we have T3620's here at work, against my wishes. (I wanted to build my own rig)

Core i7 6700K, 16GB ram, Quadro K620.

I'll never let my work buy another Dell Workstation on the simple fact that they sold us "K" series CPU's, and the multiplier is completely locked down in the bios.

If the multiplier of processor is unlocked but multiplier is locked in BIOS you can still OC your system via Throttlrstop Software.

Throttlestop overclocking Desktop PCs

Myself and a few others have used Throttlestop software and unlocked CPUs to overclock OEM locked BIOS PCs. Throttlestop was designed for underclocking, and undevolting laptop computers to extend battery life. It also allows full control of Voltage and multiplier on unlocked CPUs. There is a...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Susquehannock]

The notches in the top of the caps are for pressure release to avoid explosions, any swelling or dark staining in the grooves is a sign of failure.
There is a funny twist to the bad capacitor story. They came about because someone stole a secret capacitor formula, and it got used. The secret was the formula was no good. Industrial espionage gone wrong.

If only all caps bulged or leaked when they go bad. Would make it a lot easier on us.

How are your larger cooler projects for the T3500 going? Couple of them looked really interesting.

 

[Retrorockit]

I did the physical installation of those but everybody seems to be satisfied with just the fan mods to the stock cooler. It seems to handle Manguptas 40*C situation and all the overclocks so far. The Dynatron G17 was a very easy bolt in cooler upgrade. It was designed for the X58 server/workstation market so matches the footprint fairly well. I put that on a spare MB but never ran it.

 

[ManGupta]

I did the physical installation of those but everybody seems to be satisfied with just the fan mods to the stock cooler. It seems to handle Manguptas 40*C situation and all the overclocks so far. The Dynatron G17 was a very easy bolt in cooler upgrade. It was designed for the X58 server/workstation market so matches the footprint fairly well. I put that on a spare MB but never ran it.

The NIDAC Thermistor Fan does the good work for me 4.133 GHz stable with AIDA64/ P95 SFF temp goes to 71°C max . Best part is it helps me to bypass useless Dell Fan Controller.

Dynatron G17 is very good cooler but it blocks airflow to the VRM Mosfets, besides it is priced ridiculously high in India.

So CPU cooling, VRM Cooling and Northbridge cooling has been provided for,

Now only cooling mod in T3500 system I lack is that of Southbridge Cooling. (without Fan NB and SB on T3500 becomes very hot).

I cannot add heatsink and fan on SB as it comes in way of Graphics Card.

 

[Retrorockit]

Now only cooling mod in T3500 system I lack is that of Southbridge Cooling. (without Fan NB and SB on T3500 becomes very hot).

The very early T5500 MB D883f had active SB cooling. 0G422G is the part#. Prices vary wildly on this item and other MB wont have the 4 pin header to run the fan.

G422G - Google Search

Here's one from china with a relaistic price.

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