Does antifreeze work well for watercooling loops!?

[A Computer Guy]

Just use distilled water instead of doing a bunch of science. I ran distilled for years with nothing else, and my loop and block was fine.

How often do you swap out fluid when using only distilled? Also when using distilled do you take any special precautions to avoid biological contamination when doing maintenance (adding, removing, replacing items from the loop)?

 

[Solaris17]

How often do you swap out fluid when using only distilled? Also when using distilled do you take any special precautions to avoid biological contamination when doing maintenance (adding, removing, replacing items from the loop)?

I have the same distilled in my custom EK loop for a little over two years and I haven’t even needed to top it off. I leak tested the loop with vinegar. Tap water never touched it.

 

[xmanrigger]

Can i add home made Palinka (hungarian made strong alcoholic drink ~50%) to the distilled water in the loop?

Sure you can. You could add a little beer as well if you really wanted to.

Should you? Ummm, no.

 

[Fangio1951]

I only use distilled water plus 2 drops of Mayhems biocide in my custom loop.

I add the biocide every 12 months and been doing this since my first dual Sli GTX780 Ti + water blocks and am still using the same D5 pump.

So, that's the same pump + rad since 2013 !!

 

[masterdeejay]

Sure you can. You could add a little beer as well if you really wanted to.

Should you? Ummm, no.

It is water clean. Like clean alcohol.

 

[Mr.Scott]

IIRC, the 'active ingredient' in that stuff is methanol.
I've never tried to ignite the stuff, but I believe there is a flammability warning.

Not trying to scare anyone, but there was a reason automobiles moved from water/alcohol anti-freeze-coolant to Ethylene glycol.
In the proposed use however: Cold alcohols, fume less; there shouldn't be any active ignition sources inside a PC/test bench, either.

I suppose the only real concern would be ensuring your tubing and fittings are chemically compatible with methanol. (Oh, and methanol erodes aluminum, last I checked. No Alu rads/blocks.)

No issue on any front. Been running it in my chiller for years.

 

[Steevo]

IIRC, the 'active ingredient' in that stuff is methanol.
I've never tried to ignite the stuff, but I believe there is a flammability warning.

Not trying to scare anyone, but there was a reason automobiles moved from water/alcohol anti-freeze-coolant to Ethylene glycol.
In the proposed use however: Cold alcohols, fume less; there shouldn't be any active ignition sources inside a PC/test bench, either.

I suppose the only real concern would be ensuring your tubing and fittings are chemically compatible with methanol. (Oh, and methanol erodes aluminum, last I checked. No Alu rads/blocks.)

My geothermal ground loop uses 20% methanol as freezing protection, I added it myself. It’s not that dangerous and is actually an organic carbon source. It rarely reacts with anything. It was freezing at -12C before during winter and now with 20% methanol, 5% glycol and 32oz of moly additive reached -28C last year without any issues for pumps or the loop.

I would rather use glycol in low concentrations for pump lubricant and antifreeze than methanol, but when flow rate determines delta T methanol FTW.

 

[DemonicRyzen666]

From EK themselves:

This Is Why You Need Purpose-Made Coolants - ekwb.com

Edit: This article was from 2019. Looks like i was 15 years ahead of these guys lol

I've only seen that happen with colored fluids & anything with glycol in. Plus extremely high flow rates which usually causes oxidation, by minor cavitations.
I've never see anything like that happen with just pure distilled water.
Seems more like marketing to sell more of their products.

 

[Mussels]

Can i add home made Palinka (hungarian made strong alcoholic drink ~50%) to the distilled water in the loop?

You can add anything you want


you'll just end up having to replace the heatsinks, radiators, pumps, tubes, etc.

My geothermal ground loop uses 20% methanol as freezing protection, I added it myself. It’s not that dangerous and is actually an organic carbon source. It rarely reacts with anything. It was freezing at -12C before during winter and now with 20% methanol, 5% glycol and 32oz of moly additive reached -28C last year without any issues for pumps or the loop.

I would rather use glycol in low concentrations for pump lubricant and antifreeze than methanol, but when flow rate determines delta T methanol FTW.

I really wish i could do that here, i love those loops

It's what I want for 'free' summer cooling

 

[krunk]

http://imgur.com/a/6RF3nkt

Imgur Album, multiple pictures in link above^^

Made a chiller build here, used around 30/70 ethylene glycol and distilled water. No longer chilled but still using that same coolant from 3 years ago with my loop, working perfectly fine but did have to filter it through a strainer a few times when using the chiller since it had an "open" air reservoir where dust and other debris got in. Mixed metal loop, aluminum fins submerged on the reservoir side and copper and nickel metal in the loop itself, no noticeable galvanic corrosion. Lower temperatures and ethylene glycol do help reduce galvanic corrosion in the studies I found at the time.

https://www.owi.com/retail/brands/peak-auto/antifreeze-coolant/all-makes-all-models-coolant/peak-antifreeze-coolant/peak-10x-antifreeze-%26-coolant-full-strength-for-all-vehicles

This is the anti-freeze I picked just based on its safety data sheet. The bitterant doesn't appear to cause any additional harm to the components in the loop and is also very bitter, 1/10 would not recommend drinking it but 10/10 happy its there since it's extremely noticeable taste wise.

So far no bacteria growth or anything like that. Most of the studies I looked at showed around a 25-30%+ ratio was enough to stop growth and that seems to be true.

 

[Shrek]

I leak tested the loop with vinegar.

How does that work, vinegar being an acid and all? I thought fluorescein was used.

 

[Waldorf]

many here dont seem to see the difference between (car) coolant and (car) anti-freeze,
completely ignoring that the use/environment (temp range etc) as well as parts/materials used (most of the time),
are completely different (in a pc).

just because it works doesnt mean much, unless running +1000 system (statistically speaking),
nor does it mean its better (than distilled + biocide).


maybe some need to do it the other way around: run the car with some green opaq (pc) coolant...
(sarcasm mode: off)


@Outback Bronze
coming from a single manufacturer that also sells (expensive) coolant.
in almost 20y of LC a pc have i seen brands like Alphacool requiring coolant,
even when it was tweaked Eheim pumps.
at least i havent seen anyone requiring specific (pc) coolant to not lose warranty (ergo, not needed).

@A Computer Guy
best results i had are all with distilled water (not deionized) and adding proper amount of (liquid) biocide like dead water.
i was even able to "clean" (bio) a used rad/res combo i purchased once, by running high concentration of dead water for a few month,
then cleaning/flushing and refilling it was enough to have it run over a year without changing water and no stuff floating around.

sold it, so i cant tell if it would have worked longer, but many are running distilled/biocide for long periods.
i run mine until i start to see things inside the res, only then drain/clean/flush/refill.

when everything is put together just flush it (maybe use sys-prep), a few times if new parts), this gets rid of crap,
and you can do a quick leak-check.
just make sure to run a pressure relieve valve on the res, this will help with equalizing with temp changes,
as well as preventing the loop from bursting (if you have galvanic reaction/bio growth.

or get some clear coolant from the main brands if you dont want to mess around with stuff, some are even offering distilled water + biocide (nothing else).

without any color etc added, its usually easy to see problems, just by watching water in the res, any (bio growth) particles will easily show..

 

[A Computer Guy]

@A Computer Guy
best results i had are all with distilled water (not deionized) and adding proper amount of (liquid) biocide like dead water.
i was even able to "clean" (bio) a used rad/res combo i purchased once, by running high concentration of dead water for a few month,
then cleaning/flushing and refilling it was enough to have it run over a year without changing water and no stuff floating around.
sold it, so cant tell if it would have worked longer, but many are running distilled/biocide for long periods.
i run mine until i start to see things inside the res, only then drain/clean/flush/refill.

or get some clear coolant from the main brands if you dont want to mess around with stuff, some are even offering distilled water + biocide (nothing else).

without any color etc added, its usually easy to see problems, just by watching water in the res, any (bio growth) particles will easily show..

Do you have nickel plated blocks? If so have they shown signs of damage to the nickel plating?

 

[Shrek]

Antifreeze cons (from post 6):

• reduces specific heat
• increases viscosity

Antifreeze pros:

• reduces freezing point
• elevates boiling point
• corrosion resistance
• possible lubricant
• fungicide and bactericide

In the context of PC cooling I'd say it was a no go (except for the corrosion resistance)

 

[Waldorf]

yes (cpu).
nope. distilled and biocide was always the one not making any trouble in any form.
especially when i see (pc) coolant on store shelfs that is already growing mold spores/bio matter,
while claiming to protect against such..

 

[Shrek]

Now a wetting agent may have some virtue.

 

[Outback Bronze]

(pc) coolant

I don't use PC coolant. I use car coolant - antifreeze which on the bottle I use is good for 100,000 kilometers.

If it's good for 100,000 kilometers of combustion, then I'm pretty sure it's going to be good for many years in my PC water cooling loop.

Like I say, I've already had issue's using straight distilled water and not one in close to 20 years of using car coolant regardless of the miniscule temp difference.

 

[claes]

Idk why this is still a debate? Both work fine and can be used for extensive periods of time. If using mixed metals I’d definitely go for a propylene glycol mixture/antifreeze, but otherwise there’s no real difference in performance, coolant “life,” etc.

 

[Waldorf]

@Outback Bronze
my reply to was about your post with ekwb stating "you" need coolant (over water with biocide).
no one else seems to require it, with any on the market way longer than ekwb exists,
incl pro cooling on scale outside (a end user) cooling company.


@claes
when it comes to anti freeze and the like, i say if it works for you, great,
but that doesnt automatically mean its a good idea (for everyone), nor was that stuff made with pc cooling in mind.
and i dont mean just temps (regarding "better").
nor is it applied on a scale where it would give reliable info about it being "better" for more than 80% of (normal) users.

e.g. where in a cars cooling system is acetal present?
so there is no long term large scale number showing its safe, vs lets say pc coolants.

 

[Outback Bronze]

my reply to was about your post with ekwb stating "you" need coolant (over water with biocide).
no one else seems to require it, with any on the market way longer than ekwb exists,
incl pro cooling on scale outside (a end user) cooling company.

Oh ok, sry for the confusion.

when it comes to anti freeze and the like, i say if it works for you, great,

Yep, works great for me. No reason for me to go back to distilled. I can mix metals and all.

Most importantly for me I really do like the green glow under UV lights. Great effect!

 

[Dr. Dro]

The reason I have avoided custom water for the time being is the relatively high cost of the parts combined due to low availability in my country. It's been getting better lately with Chinese parts becoming more available and even occasionally a Thermaltake or EK kit appearing, but for example, sure, buying EK Cryofuel is convenient and all but what do you do if that's not an option to begin with?

Premium automotive coolant/medical-grade distilled water (99.99%+ free of salts) mix seems like a no brainer to me. They should be affordable and plenty.

I might look into building a loop eventually so I read these threads with quite some interest.

Can i add home made Palinka (hungarian made strong alcoholic drink ~50%) to the distilled water in the loop?

Probably not, but I bet you can add some of our traditional Brazilian Cachaça! (No, you can't either).

Trust me, I kind of understand your logic, it's the reason most of us reach for that bottle of scotch every now and then - but the problem with alcohol (I use this term to refer to distilled beverages) as an additive is that you're basically providing sustenance for the microorganisms that would make a colony out of your loop. That's the opposite of what you want to do.

 

[A Computer Guy]

The reason I have avoided custom water for the time being is the relatively high cost of the parts combined due to low availability in my country. It's been getting better lately with Chinese parts becoming more available and even occasionally a Thermaltake or EK kit appearing, but for example, sure, buying EK Cryofuel is convenient and all but what do you do if that's not an option to begin with?

Premium automotive coolant/medical-grade distilled water (99.99%+ free of salts) mix seems like a no brainer to me. They should be affordable and plenty.

I might look into building a loop eventually so I read these threads with quite some interest.



Probably not, but I bet you can add some of our traditional Brazilian Cachaça! (No, you can't either).

Trust me, I kind of understand your logic, it's the reason most of us reach for that bottle of scotch every now and then - but the problem with alcohol (I use this term to refer to distilled beverages) as an additive is that you're basically providing sustenance for the microorganisms that would make a colony out of your loop. That's the opposite of what you want to do.

Anyone try a Vodka loop?

 

[Dr. Dro]

Anyone try a Vodka loop?

 

[Outback Bronze]

That reminds me of when my mate years ago busted his res and used a Vegemite jar temporarily : ) Aussie classic!

 

[Waldorf]

@Outback Bronze
no no, was my bad not including that part initially, sorry, up for over 20h now

i didnt care for light/uv anymore (only used it when i had external /rad/res/pump/fan and lit all parts incl 6ft of hoses),
until i saw opaque stuff, especially since it claims to be less of a problem for loops (veggie based).

UV green

@Dr. Dro
those ultra clean/deionized waters (lab grade) are counterproductive.
because its missing "everything" (minerals), guess where the fluid will "pull" from?
yes, your loop/parts.
much higher chance of problems like corrosion/galvanic reactions. made that mistake once,
had to take whole loop apart and clean all parts.

after flush and use of (generic supermarket) distilled water + biocide, the same parts worked fine
for almost 1y without any trouble, so i know it was the "clean" water causing it.

again, short of some not so good part selection (mixed metals etc), your best off with dist. stuff and a biocide,
liquids tend to work better than coils/silver hw.
but do try and get distilled water that was UV (or similar) treated, to destroy any bio stuff.

did use a 1gal water jug for res in 2006, just the sheer vol of coolant allowed for around 30 min of fanless operation.
but before i would do a vodka loop, id rather have 10gal of (non-conductive) cooling fluid in an aquarium and drop the parts in it