DTS DCH Driver for Realtek HDA [DTS:X APO4 + DTS Interactive]

[ajf64]

Oynko Integra DTR-9.1 U2 i also have preimum custom cables from a friend who works for a high end A/V company he made them for me

i def have the 192 2 channel i know my amp is capable of 192 6 channel tho it dose not have decoders for dts MA or True audio

 

[Ferather]

That's a very high end unit. Although dated, you might get lucky if the components are correct. From my understanding Toslink 2.0 (125mbps) came out in the late 90's.

"Every imaginable audio format can be decoded by this receiver; the list includes: Dolby Digital, Dolby Pro Logic II (DPL-II), MPEG, DTS, DTS-ES, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1, and THX Surround EX. If a new format comes along, and they just keep coming, you can upgrade the unit's flash memory using the RS232 port on the back. Our review unit had been upgraded to DPL-II. The upgradability cannot be emphasized enough. So many formats and features are constantly coming out, it is an important feature to have, at least for this kind of money. THX Ultra 2 has just been announced, and I imagine there will be an upgrade to the DTR-9.1 that will come along in the future. Since the DACs are 24/192, I suspect it would be possible to upgrade this unit for digital decoding of DVD-A, if the manufacturers ever agree on a digital output standard for DVD-A players. This particular review unit was used in our Benchmark event, held last June, and the guys say it is one of the best sounding receivers they have ever heard."

Source

I cannot help you with sourcing an update and then flashing, I have no idea with that unit, I would contact Oynko. Also ask them if they offer part exchange for an upgrade.
If you can get DTS-MA (+ DTS:X) and TrueHD (+ Atmos), there is almost no reason to upgrade after this, its unlikely any new formats will come for a while.

Lossless is lossless, both formats do 192khz multichannel, they can only really improve compression, add 32 bit support, or more channels.
Funny part is I'm reading eARC is fairly unstable, and further improvements require more bitrate, ahem Toslink ... xD

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Do you know anyone with an HDMI extractor with 5.1 PCM down Toslink? You could try it on that unit. Audio quality from my AMD GPU is much better than ALC889.
Also depending on the unit, the internal monitor, can be re-programmed, you can then add support for MPEG, ATRAC and so on.

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Here are some DTS audio files I made from the original, I can also make ES files if you would also like to test them. For system wide, I need an EFX encoder-transcoder.
I am hoping DTS listen to my emails, and produce an EFX encoder-transcoder with a software panel, where we can setup what we want.

====

Also note, if you had a system that's eARC with a maximum bitrate of ~37mbps, and due to cheap components, cheap cables, bad grounding, too much RFI, you can only do 35mbps.
Now if you was to send ~37mbps, you can guess in general what would happen. I really do dislike conductive circuits, too much to compensate for, more price.

You will find that Toslink is not only 125mpbs, its immune to RFI and pretty much everything else conductive circuits are not.

 

[emanresu]

@Ferather - start a petition that we can sign and forward to XPERI?

 

[Ferather]

It's more of a support request, but I am sure something could be arranged. There is certainly a need for it and DTS like to support pre-existing systems.

 

[ajf64]

That's a very high end unit. Although dated, you might get lucky if the components are correct. From my understanding Toslink 2.0 (125mbps) came out in the late 90's.

"Every imaginable audio format can be decoded by this receiver; the list includes: Dolby Digital, Dolby Pro Logic II (DPL-II), MPEG, DTS, DTS-ES, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1, and THX Surround EX. If a new format comes along, and they just keep coming, you can upgrade the unit's flash memory using the RS232 port on the back. Our review unit had been upgraded to DPL-II. The upgradability cannot be emphasized enough. So many formats and features are constantly coming out, it is an important feature to have, at least for this kind of money. THX Ultra 2 has just been announced, and I imagine there will be an upgrade to the DTR-9.1 that will come along in the future. Since the DACs are 24/192, I suspect it would be possible to upgrade this unit for digital decoding of DVD-A, if the manufacturers ever agree on a digital output standard for DVD-A players. This particular review unit was used in our Benchmark event, held last June, and the guys say it is one of the best sounding receivers they have ever heard."

Source

I cannot help you with sourcing an update and then flashing, I have no idea with that unit, I would contact Oynko. Also ask them if they offer part exchange for an upgrade.
If you can get DTS-MA (+ DTS:X) and TrueHD (+ Atmos), there is almost no reason to upgrade after this, its unlikely any new formats will come for a while.

Lossless is lossless, both formats do 192khz multichannel, they can only really improve compression, add 32 bit support, or more channels.
Funny part is I'm reading eARC is fairly unstable, and further improvements require more bitrate, ahem Toslink ... xD

----

Do you know anyone with an HDMI extractor with 5.1 PCM down Toslink? You could try it on that unit. Audio quality from my AMD GPU is much better than ALC889.
Also depending on the unit, the internal monitor, can be re-programmed, you can then add support for MPEG, ATRAC and so on.

====

Here are some DTS audio files I made from the original, I can also make ES files if you would also like to test them. For system wide, I need an EFX encoder-transcoder.
I am hoping DTS listen to my emails, and produce an EFX encoder-transcoder with a software panel, where we can setup what we want.

====

Also note, if you had a system that's eARC with a maximum bitrate of ~37mbps, and due to cheap components, cheap cables, bad grounding, too much RFI, you can only do 35mbps.
Now if you was to send ~37mbps, you can guess in general what would happen. I really do dislike conductive circuits, too much to compensate for, more price.

You will find that Toslink is not only 125mpbs, its immune to RFI and pretty much everything else conductive circuits are not.

i don't know any one but i can try and get one this amp sounds incredible and i have the Ultra2 with variable sub woofer crossover i just want to maximize what i can do with it i know its capable of more want to see how far i can push it the fact it has no hdmi port is what holds it back thinking of looking in to the firm ware i n theory could add custom firm ware to it but basically its god the same issue as the z906 amp just have alot more options and range for reaching even higher quality out put over spidif if only i could find a db25 to 8 channel analogue connector also it feels like the z906 speakers where like made for this amp for the price these speakers are unmatched

 

[Ferather]

You can do fully analogue, and a high quality unit like that would probably be only limited by the device producing the analogue audio (Realtek).

Edit: I don't know of any HDMI extractors with the 3-4x 3.5mm jacks for standard analogue direct.

 

[ajf64]

ya i have looked all over and i cant not find anyone selling one of the db25 connectors if i could find that i could do 192/24 all day as long as i had something else decode it

 

[Ferather]

If you have DTS:X APO4 and Sound Unbound, all DTS encoded content will be automatically uncompressed and sent as PCM via analogue without issues.
It's a viable option if you have a high quality analogue sound card, DTS does well to improve Realtek, but its still Realtek.

The DTS decoders will do both multichannel and stereo, depending on your settings.

 

[ajf64]

i listened to those files and they do trigger 96/24 as well as i was was getting bitrates as high as 9000kbps that was being pass through

 

[Ferather]

Well from my perspective DTS will be the ones we should talk to for more support on Toslink and so on. And EFX with control app is a perfect solution for existing equipment.

 

[ajf64]

seems i can do at least 10000kbps with this set up over toslink

 

[Ferather]

I'm sure I pushed ~12mbps on ALC889, either way I can force send DTS-HD MA and TrueHD, but cant decode. I wouldn't be surprised if your unit does do 125mpbs.

 

[ajf64]

I'm sure I pushed ~12mbps on ALC889, either way I can force send DTS-HD MA and TrueHD, but cant decode. I wouldn't be surprised if your unit does do 125mpbs.

View attachment 206506

quick question for you so when in dts interactive realtek tells me im in 48/16 shouldnt that be 48/24 how can i verify its out puting 48/24

 

[Ferather]

Ignore it, that only applies on 'final out', not before or during processing, final out is not PCM, ignore the panel.

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I specifically put the encoder at the last point on EFX, which is why I know more can exist.



You get DTS:X APO4 - Sound Unbound features (Interactive:X).

 

[ajf64]

ya i get apo4 just wondered about that thanks for clearing that up what dose i lose by having enhancements off

 

[Ferather]

Realtek SFX and MFX, DTS MFX (SFX is inactive), as far as I know EFX still applies with the off option. Some people will say Dolby Digital Live is better than DTS Interactive.
You are miss informed, DDL is SD not HD, they trick your ears by enhancing the audio before or after its compressed, so you hear what you think is quality.

Applying the same EQ in front of DTS Interactive will pretty much give you the same effect, if tuned in the same way.

 

[ajf64]

idk to me dts has always sounded much better also works much better in games i have found alot of positioning issues in games with Dolby digital live

 

[Ferather]

Well from my understanding DTS:X APO4 is HD processing, perhaps the SD standard of DDL doesn't work well with some modern enhancers.
You can also try removing the Realtek APO, using FX configurator, and the Class ID's.txt, and make it DTS only.

I'm still using the Realtek APO on both my 889 and AMD GPU, might depend on the device.

Edit: This being said, if the DDL is being bitstreamed, it remains untouched by enhancers, its not PCM.

 

[DriVE654]

Hello Ferather, as always, thanks for the impressive work!
I'm somehow stuck with matrix upmixing - can't find where to set 2.0 to 5.1 in my APO configuration, previously I used to use some plugin like "Peace" for that, so it seems the working config got overwritten and I have surround sound only when it's encoded in the media itself (test files work perfectly, 5.1 videos too).
Not sure if I should ask configuration questions here as there's no added value for the audience, please tell if I should PM you instead.

 

[Ferather]

Its no problem you can ask here. I use my own configuration, simply to setup stereo surround (2 channels to 5.1-7.1).
My config and guide is here, and below is a screenshot of my current config for upmixing:



This works with encoders, such as DTS Interactive, too.

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I have attached something you guys can play with, unfortunately Windows doesn't have defaults for the test files.
Regardless, it appears to mostly unlock Toslink (SPDIF), although further tweaks might be needed.





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@ajf64, you are correct, the same audio transcoded to DDL and DTS Surround (aka Interactive), without APO4, DDL doesn't sound as positional, for SD the inbuilt enhancer does well for quality.
If I enable APO4 fully, and use DDL instead of Interactive, it improves quite a bit, quite funny, but its because its PCM, and APO4 will act on any PCM (analogue).

I also found that Dolby Digital Plus (DDP, DD+, E-AC3), will get downgraded to Dolby Digital Live (DDL, AC3), in SD (48khz, 16 bit).
My suggestion, for any unsupported formats, for any reason, uncompress it to PCM where possible.

I can also confirm the DTS multichannel enhancer works on all channels for Interactive (192khz, 24-32bit, max).

 

[emanresu]

"I can also confirm the DTS multichannel enhancer works on all channels for Interactive (192khz, 24-32bit, max)."

This is a tad unclear. DTS Interactive is often 48/16 - 96/24?

"(192khz, 24-32bit, max)"

 

[Ferather]

Input

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Things do to:

Badger DTS for an application and end effect, where we can select all the DTS digital formats, with programmable sample rate, and final bitrate, so on.
Badger Windows to natively add support for the modern standard of Toslink and SPDIF (should be since late 90's).
Add additional SPDIF formats via the driver and create related test files (see the post above).
Make OEM's more aware of the full capability of Toslink 2.0.

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Mimic - YouTube < You are hearing DTS APO4, multichannel.

 

[Ferather]

Info for OEM's.

Here some example modules, please note the modules can be manufactured at various specs, which is where the bigger problem is (no set revision, version, and related specs).

The middle one in this image (JIS F05), is one of the various ones we are interested in, fully capable of 125mbps.



Here is a standard JIS F05 lead, very common. Note, see the image in the post above, to see another lead.




Here is one that can be used in various ways, however we would be interested in return data.



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PCM data should only be limited by the device producing it, for example, the audio devices maximum aggregate sample rate, or its maximum bitrate output (as PCM).
Any PCM data down Toslink, given the right modules, can be routed (re-directed) to any multichannel capable PCM system (common analogue).

In terms of bitstreaming and Toslink, again this is more limited by the module, where the full 125mbps should be utilized.

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HDMI Extractor - Multichannel PCM

Watch "HDMI Extractor - Multichannel PCM" on Streamable.

streamable.com

Potplayer - SPDIF [Microphone]

Watch "Potplayer - SPDIF [Microphone]" on Streamable.

streamable.com

The last one is me bitstreaming down Toslink, but can't decode.

 

[Ferather]

Found this, thought it was interesting: Photophone - Wikipedia

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Can be done with a channel based setup, 108 @ 24bit, 48khz, 1152kbps per channel, where channels can instead be data pipes.
Lets say the first 2 channels are used as the audio ID, then 3-X for meta data, and so on.

It would also be possible to use 2 or more channels to create larger single channels, for example, 4 as 2 @ 96khz, 48bit.
The master chip should be flexible, but as long as it understands the data and mapping, all should be well.

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Another possibility:

Signature: I am DTS, I carry 3 streams, HD-MA, HD-HRA and Surround (Core).
Meta data: DTS:X, audio FX, channel mapping, turn off AVR.
Reserved: Copywrites, other.

Mapping (made up, use hex):

Channels: D-G = HD-MA, 8 channels, 48khz, 24bit, compressed.
Channels: H-I = HD-HRA, 8 channels, 48khz, 24bit, compressed.
Channels: J-K = Surround, 6 channels, 48khz, 24bit, compressed.

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An additional external Toslink 2.0 device (or software) can also be produced (like an HDMI Extractor to Toslink), that converts the mapped data to legacy mode Toslink 1.0.
It's also possible, in some part, to upgrade older systems, especially when the audio effect or spatial data is available to process.

Also note, its possible to route the multichannel PCM from HDMI to 3-4x 3.5mm jacks, for analogue direct.

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Toslink 2.0 'receivers' should be flashable, via USB or other methods (flash drive), in order to recognize new formats and update to any new channel mapping, other *.
In terms of PC, much the same, however, system hardware such as RAM can be utilized for stream building, and apps would be beneficial.

On PC, both the OS and driver can be updated, making hardware less required compared to a full AVR build.

* You can buy a license and add a format to the system.

 

[Ferather]

A unified container file for the stream would also be ideal, this way a pre-mapped stream can just be sent, as is, down Toslink 2.0 to the receiver (and chip).