Gates Downplays Chrome OS

[Meecrob]

netbook=your not changing display res.

office=office, again this isnt anything u need to re-learn as even my father figuared it out without help and with no prior experiance with openoffice (or any office other then ms office for that matter)

printers in vector where simple and most printers are covered by the built in print daemon, those that arent are not to likely to be in most peoples homes.

many of these people your talking about cant do what you are talking about in windows, they just use whatever the settings on the system are when they get it and are "happy"

and unlike most people, you know what an OS is and CARE, most people JUST DONT CARE, if it works for their use they are happy period.

 

[Wile E]

windows has been LOOSING market share, do some googling.

with a presetup consumer linux you DONT NEED TO KNOW HOW TO USE IT, you just use it, same as with windows, If the gui's easy to use and its got the basic apps most people need per-installed, and it runs at a decent speed, they are happy.

a few years back, i would have said your comment was true about people not knowing how to use linux, and that being an issue, but anymore, a properly setup linux distro can be just as easy to use as windows, proof of this is that my father was using a system here at the office for 2 weeks b4 he figuared out it wasnt windows!!!!(vector linux 6 using the LXDE desktop)

Yeah? Go ahead and download some random program on the internet, and try to install it in Linux.

And your market share theory is a bad one because the market fluctuates. How much do you want to bet that MS regains that market share at 7's release?

 

[Meecrob]

Yeah? Go ahead and download some random program on the internet, and try to install it in Linux.

And your market share theory is a bad one because the market fluctuates. How much do you want to bet that MS regains that market share at 7's release?

they will regain some, because win7 has a version targeted at netbooks where vista didnt and xp really wasnt optimal for that either.

and most people dont download real apps anymore, they download crap that is malware/spyware yes, but real apps......naaa, specly not a netbook.

I see what your saying, but i deal with quite a few morons and have for years, and its gotten to the point where alot/most people are perfectly happy as long as their system "just works" meaning they dont get ms office trial edition (30-90days) they get a full office suit, they dont need to worry about viruses and they can do their normal internet business.

And FYI, I am 100% happy with my windows for my main rig, server 2008 sp2 rocks, BUT most people arent like us, they arent power users.

and WileE your into mac's and you have the ballz to mention downloading random apps and installing them?

 

[Wile E]

they will regain some, because win7 has a version targeted at netbooks where vista didnt and xp really wasnt optimal for that either.

and most people dont download real apps anymore, they download crap that is malware/spyware yes, but real apps......naaa, specly not a netbook.

I see what your saying, but i deal with quite a few morons and have for years, and its gotten to the point where alot/most people are perfectly happy as long as their system "just works" meaning they dont get ms office trial edition (30-90days) they get a full office suit, they dont need to worry about viruses and they can do their normal internet business.

And FYI, I am 100% happy with my windows for my main rig, server 2008 sp2 rocks, BUT most people arent like us, they arent power users.

and WileE your into mac's and you have the ballz to mention downloading random apps and installing them?

Installing apps in OS X is easy as hell. Double-click then Drag and drop for most of them. Installers for the rest.

The linux apps you find in the wild are rarely that easy. Either you have to check all of the dependencies manually, and compile them, or you check your dependencies, and then hope you got the right pre-compiled binary for your distro.

 

[Meecrob]

Installing apps in OS X is easy as hell. Double-click then Drag and drop for most of them. Installers for the rest.

The linux apps you find in the wild are rarely that easy. Either you have to check all of the dependencies manually, and compile them, or you check your dependencies, and then hope you got the right pre-compiled binary for your distro.

like I said a good consumer distro, not the geek distros.

Xandros for example you just head to their app store(appget program) and find your program, if dependency's are needed, it gets them to, as to apps that arent listed in their appstore, you can use debian packages last i checked and they do let you just install.

I use Xandros as an example because IMHO of the "user friendly" distro's I tested a while back it was still the easiest came with alot of stuff to make moving from windows as seamless as possible including crossover being part of the default install(meaning windows apps can be setup and used with little to no hassle)

there are a ton of other 100% free distros that are not really hard to use.

I agree windows makes it easy to download and install alot of apps, BUT because its so easy alot of people endup installing spyware/addware/junkware and then the system dies a slow horrible death forcing people like us to re-install the damn thing for the damn bloody noobs.

and honestly, if my father and my mother and the office worker here can use vector 6 without me needing to babysit them and tech them anything, then thats a pretty damn good sign that its easy to use and at least to them appears to be just another "windows" version.

http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/software/soa/Is-it-Windows-7-or-KDE-4-/0,139023769,339294810,00.htm

watch the video, pretty much prooves avg people dont know what os they are seeing/using and dont really care, if it works, lets them do day to day stuff, and looks pretty, they dont really care if its got a K in the bottem right corner or a windows logo or whatever.

I find it funny when people say vista is hard to use and yet they think kde4 looks far easier to use (rofl) and then the same people think windows7 will be easier to use then vista.......

vista is no harder to use then xp was when it came out, win7 is in effect vista with a more mac-like gui.

each time they upgrade windows over the past few years it requiers "joe sixpack" type users to re-learn how and where to find stuff they use to do all the time, frustrating and annoying the customer, Not good a good business model/plan if you ask me.


people moving from xp or older to vista/7 would have close to the same learning curve as they would moving to say xandros or even vector6(it really is pretty damn easy to use) because of all the little gui changes, hell the display properties threw my mother for a loop on my system(server 2008) because she was use to XP's and she has to change res when her laptops connected to the external monitor

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

Xandros for example you just head to their app store(appget program) and find your program, if dependency's are needed, it gets them to, as to apps that arent listed in their appstore, you can use debian packages last i checked and they do let you just install.

This works until you either have a problem installing, or an oddball program.

As much as people want to wish, linux is not quite there yet. They need a unified installer. Never understood why this hasn't been done yet. :shadedshu

PC-BSD took a nice OS X approach, wheread uBuntu took a really warped version of Windows's program management. Neither work that great still, if you're clueless about what you're doing. Synaptic still has a lot of cryptic files to the newbie.

That, and xOrg need to pull their heads out of their ass. Ati cards are beyond useless when it comes to linux. My x1600 doesn't have any available Ati drivers for 3d. t(*_*t) you too, Ati.

 

[Wile E]

This works until you either have a problem installing, or an oddball program.

As much as people want to wish, linux is not quite there yet. They need a unified installer. Never understood why this hasn't been done yet. :shadedshu

PC-BSD took a nice OS X approach, wheread uBuntu took a really warped version of Windows's program management. Neither work that great still, if you're clueless about what you're doing. Synaptic still has a lot of cryptic files to the newbie.

That, and xOrg need to pull their heads out of their ass. Ati cards are beyond useless when it comes to linux. My x1600 doesn't have any available Ati drivers for 3d. t(*_*t) you too, Ati.

Ati has working drivers now. ATI is easy for the non-noob now. It's definitely not the way it used to be.

I agree with everything else tho. I've been saying that Linux needs a unified installer for years. They need to make it double-click simple if they really want significant market share.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I think the reason why is because they haven't got the backing of a company like Macrovision (makers of InstallShield). At the same time, installers really aren't that complex to make. In the end, I think it is all the distros without a prexisting install system (taken from Unix or integrated into Linux in the beginning) that is universal to them all is the problem. Maybe installing is one of the fundamental areas all these distro authors disagree so one proposed installer will never gain universal acceptance.

Oh, well.

 

[Wile E]

I think the reason why is because they haven't got the backing of a company like Macrovision (makers of InstallShield). At the same time, installers really aren't that complex to make. In the end, I think it is all the distros without a prexisting install system (taken from Unix or integrated into Linux in the beginning) that is universal to them all is the problem. Maybe installing is one of the fundamental areas all these distro authors disagree so one proposed installer will never gain universal acceptance.

Oh, well.

It's simply down to a bitch-fight between debian and red hat. The devs for either claim that theirs is superior, and are not willing to compromise with the other to come up with a universal package. It's a matter of pride getting in the way of advancement.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I figured, the story of Linux.

 

[joshiers8605]

I figured, the story of Linux.

story of my life

 

[Meecrob]

It's simply down to a bitch-fight between debian and red hat. The devs for either claim that theirs is superior, and are not willing to compromise with the other to come up with a universal package. It's a matter of pride getting in the way of advancement.

also alot of other distros wont use either of their solutions, linux's main failing is they have NO ISO that all distros need to follow, so theres no unified installer for apps or drivers, its just whatever the devs of each distro think is best.

This works until you either have a problem installing, or an oddball program.

As much as people want to wish, linux is not quite there yet. They need a unified installer. Never understood why this hasn't been done yet. :shadedshu

PC-BSD took a nice OS X approach, wheread uBuntu took a really warped version of Windows's program management. Neither work that great still, if you're clueless about what you're doing. Synaptic still has a lot of cryptic files to the newbie.

That, and xOrg need to pull their heads out of their ass. Ati cards are beyond useless when it comes to linux. My x1600 doesn't have any available Ati drivers for 3d. t(*_*t) you too, Ati.

you can run into those kind of problems with windows tho as well, install shield is notorious for weird issues that are effectively UN-fixable due to the makers not wanting to figuar out the cause.

Hell ms's own installer has issues!!

want proof try and install the zunesuit on windows vista or 2008 x64, IT WONT WORK!!!! you have to use reg hacks to get the zunesuit on your system, and thats far from friendly to 99.999999999999999999999999% of the market.

If you need help with most linux distro's and getting some app installed, you can just ASK FOR HELP on their forums or irc channels, hell vectors devs will walk ANYBODY thru any problem they have, very nice clam guys

EDIT:
make note that at least with linux if an installers bugged or borked you can get it fixed or fix it yourself, on windows if a windows installer or install shield installers borked most times you cant do shit about it.

 

[Wile E]

also alot of other distros wont use either of their solutions, linux's main failing is they have NO ISO that all distros need to follow, so theres no unified installer for apps or drivers, its just whatever the devs of each distro think is best.



you can run into those kind of problems with windows tho as well, install shield is notorious for weird issues that are effectively UN-fixable due to the makers not wanting to figuar out the cause.

Hell ms's own installer has issues!!

want proof try and install the zunesuit on windows vista or 2008 x64, IT WONT WORK!!!! you have to use reg hacks to get the zunesuit on your system, and thats far from friendly to 99.999999999999999999999999% of the market.

If you need help with most linux distro's and getting some app installed, you can just ASK FOR HELP on their forums or irc channels, hell vectors devs will walk ANYBODY thru any problem they have, very nice clam guys

EDIT:
make note that at least with linux if an installers bugged or borked you can get it fixed or fix it yourself, on windows if a windows installer or install shield installers borked most times you cant do shit about it.

And those occasional install problems on windows are bugs. That has nothing to do with trying to download and install a program on linux, with all of it's different installer and packaging systems. A bug is entirely different than incompatibility.

Don't turn this into an argument of semantics. The fact is, Windows and OS X are overall easier to use the linux, period. No ifs, ands or buts. Until Linux becomes as easy to use, it will never gain a real foothold in the market.

 

[Meecrob]

And those occasional install problems on windows are bugs. That has nothing to do with trying to download and install a program on linux, with all of it's different installer and packaging systems. A bug is entirely different than incompatibility.

Don't turn this into an argument of semantics. The fact is, Windows and OS X are overall easier to use the linux, period. No ifs, ands or buts. Until Linux becomes as easy to use, it will never gain a real foothold in the market.

want me to list the installer bugs and problems I have found, or the number of windows installer's there are out there


Windows
NSIS (Nullsoft Scriptable Install System)
Actual Installer
Advanced Installer
CreateInstall
CreateInstall Light
CreateInstall Free
DeployMaster
DreamShield(free deployment tool for .NET Framework based applications)
Excelsior Installer
Excelsior Delivery
Inno Setup
InstallAware
InstallBuilder
Install Creator (Pro) (formerly Install Maker (Pro))
InstallShield
Installer VISE
Instyler Setup
MSI Package Builder
QSetup
Scriptlogic Desktop Authority MSI Studio
SetupBuilder Developer Edition
SetupBuilder Professional Edition
Setup Factory
Tarma ExpertInstall 3
Tarma Installer 5
Windows Installer(to many versions to list)
Wise Installation Studio 7
Wise Installation Express 7
Wise Package Studio
WiX
wyBuild & wyUpdate written in C#



Mac OS X
Installer for Mac OS X, from Apple Inc.
Iceberg for Mac OS X
Remote Install Mac OS X
VISE X by MindVision Software


so each of them has multi installers, mac having the least(thanks to apple being very strict on what they allow on osx)

windows has a shitload if different installers, and if you hit a bugged installer, good luck tracking down the problem and fixing it or for that matter getting the company behind it to fix it.

At least with linux, If you cant fix it yourself, most times you can ask in IRC or on a forum and have help very quickly to get the problem fixed with a spicific installer.

example from today, i grabbed the latist opera10 installer for windows and linux, couldnt get the linux installer to work, went on irc, and somebody helped me edit the install script file to fix the error(took like 30sec, just had to change one line of text) and bam worked no problem.

yet i have a STACK of windows apps that WONT INSTALL on any windows version but XP without hacking the hell out of them(no i dont mean they wont install on server, they also wont install on 2k or vista because there are bugs/flaws in the installer)

Linux is far from perfect, but its not as bad as it use to be, at least when you run into a wall, you can ask for help and most times, somebody will help you, with windows, good luck getting a proprietary installer issue fixed, even by the people who made the damn thing!!!

Hell MICROSOFT cant even fix the zunesuit's vista x64 installer so it works without hacking the registry(ask DarkNova or anybody else running x64 vista/7 with a zune) and THEY MAKE THE DAMN INSTALLER AND SOFTWARE IN IT!!!!

if it was Linux, you could pop open the install package, find the install script and fix it, but its windows, and its locked down so you cant edit the installer to fix the damn bugs

Windows is GREAT when it works(like I said, I LOVE my 2008) but its not flawless, and when stuff like an installer is borked, most times you will be flying blind trying to fix it :/

And as I have said, I agree they need one unified click and install system, BUT not a copy of windows click and install system.

P.S. have any of you ever used the Xandros app manager/store? wish windows installer/manager was as friendly and easy to use!!!

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I got over 260 GB of apps (too many to list) installed on this computer and not one installer bug. Installer problems are the exception on Windows, not the norm.

 

[Wile E]

want me to list the installer bugs and problems I have found, or the number of windows installer's there are out there


Windows
NSIS (Nullsoft Scriptable Install System)
Actual Installer
Advanced Installer
CreateInstall
CreateInstall Light
CreateInstall Free
DeployMaster
DreamShield(free deployment tool for .NET Framework based applications)
Excelsior Installer
Excelsior Delivery
Inno Setup
InstallAware
InstallBuilder
Install Creator (Pro) (formerly Install Maker (Pro))
InstallShield
Installer VISE
Instyler Setup
MSI Package Builder
QSetup
Scriptlogic Desktop Authority MSI Studio
SetupBuilder Developer Edition
SetupBuilder Professional Edition
Setup Factory
Tarma ExpertInstall 3
Tarma Installer 5
Windows Installer(to many versions to list)
Wise Installation Studio 7
Wise Installation Express 7
Wise Package Studio
WiX
wyBuild & wyUpdate written in C#



Mac OS X
Installer for Mac OS X, from Apple Inc.
Iceberg for Mac OS X
Remote Install Mac OS X
VISE X by MindVision Software


so each of them has multi installers, mac having the least(thanks to apple being very strict on what they allow on osx)

windows has a shitload if different installers, and if you hit a bugged installer, good luck tracking down the problem and fixing it or for that matter getting the company behind it to fix it.

At least with linux, If you cant fix it yourself, most times you can ask in IRC or on a forum and have help very quickly to get the problem fixed with a spicific installer.

example from today, i grabbed the latist opera10 installer for windows and linux, couldnt get the linux installer to work, went on irc, and somebody helped me edit the install script file to fix the error(took like 30sec, just had to change one line of text) and bam worked no problem.

yet i have a STACK of windows apps that WONT INSTALL on any windows version but XP without hacking the hell out of them(no i dont mean they wont install on server, they also wont install on 2k or vista because there are bugs/flaws in the installer)

Linux is far from perfect, but its not as bad as it use to be, at least when you run into a wall, you can ask for help and most times, somebody will help you, with windows, good luck getting a proprietary installer issue fixed, even by the people who made the damn thing!!!

Hell MICROSOFT cant even fix the zunesuit's vista x64 installer so it works without hacking the registry(ask DarkNova or anybody else running x64 vista/7 with a zune) and THEY MAKE THE DAMN INSTALLER AND SOFTWARE IN IT!!!!

if it was Linux, you could pop open the install package, find the install script and fix it, but its windows, and its locked down so you cant edit the installer to fix the damn bugs

Windows is GREAT when it works(like I said, I LOVE my 2008) but its not flawless, and when stuff like an installer is borked, most times you will be flying blind trying to fix it :/

And as I have said, I agree they need one unified click and install system, BUT not a copy of windows click and install system.

P.S. have any of you ever used the Xandros app manager/store? wish windows installer/manager was as friendly and easy to use!!!

Yeah, but those Installers are all self running. You still just double click on them. They are completely transparent to the user, so it doesn't matter to anyone but the devs. The user just downloads the program, and double clicks it. No messing around in command lines, or worrying whether or not you grabbed the proper installer for your OS, as all of those installers are for your OS.

And apple doesn't restrict what's allowed on OS X. The fact is, OS X's default install method doesn't require an installer at all, therefore there is less need for installers in OS X. Most OS X apps are pre-package to be drag and drop, kinda like a portable app.

And if you can't get it to work in Windows, a simple google search, or a forum post here, will most likely get it fixed. And it's usually no more difficault than having to use the command line in Linux. But bugs have nothing to do with the point at all.

Normal people don't use irc, btw.

And you are still just arguing semantics, and completely dancing around the point. Windows and OS X are easier to use, period. Bugs DO NOT COUNT. They are bugs, not flat out incompatibilities or dependency hell. There are so many more Windows apps, of course there will be a lot of bugs.

You can try to make cases of how easy it is to use the Xandros app manager is, but the fact remains it's only good for the things in the app. It doesn't do a damn thing for you if you find something you want that's not in their store.

 

[Meecrob]

Yeah, but those Installers are all self running. You still just double click on them. They are completely transparent to the user, so it doesn't matter to anyone but the devs. The user just downloads the program, and double clicks it. No messing around in command lines, or worrying whether or not you grabbed the proper installer for your OS, as all of those installers are for your OS.

And apple doesn't restrict what's allowed on OS X. The fact is, OS X's default install method doesn't require an installer at all, therefore there is less need for installers in OS X. Most OS X apps are pre-package to be drag and drop, kinda like a portable app.

And if you can't get it to work in Windows, a simple google search, or a forum post here, will most likely get it fixed. And it's usually no more difficault than having to use the command line in Linux. But bugs have nothing to do with the point at all.

Normal people don't use irc, btw.

And you are still just arguing semantics, and completely dancing around the point. Windows and OS X are easier to use, period. Bugs DO NOT COUNT. They are bugs, not flat out incompatibilities or dependency hell. There are so many more Windows apps, of course there will be a lot of bugs.

You can try to make cases of how easy it is to use the Xandros app manager is, but the fact remains it's only good for the things in the app. It doesn't do a damn thing for you if you find something you want that's not in their store.

linux isnt any harder really, at least the good distros, you just rclick the installer packege, extract it to a folder, then run the instal script(click it) and it installs, no worse then many other archived apps.....

you/somebody mentioned problem packeges/buggy packeges fact is thats no worse then the installer hell that can be windows.

You dont seem to get it, I have done a shitload of googling and even lately trying bing to find fixes for some installers, some arent compatible with vista, some arent compatible with x64 windows(despite the app in them being x64 compatible)

Windows can be just as bad as Linux for installer issues, the diffrance being that if you need help with a linux installer you WILL GET IT, with windows, you have a good chance of not being able to fix the installer without knowing far more about the os and installer/installer packer then any sain person would want to know(I know it and I dont even want to know it!!!)

OSX is a different beast controlled by apple, and has a limited software library that even makes linux's look large in comparison.

and if OSX borks up, apples responce 9/10 times is to reinstall the os........no workarounds no "heres how to fix it" just tell you to reinstall and that its fast......

oh, and yes, manytimes the easiest way to fix any system is to wipe it and start over, but many people dont want to have to reinstall everything or reset all their settings, its just alot of hassle.

last week a guy from my mothers church named Ed asked me to look at his computer, it got a virus from an infected GIF file, well, I cleaned it off and such, offered to reinstall the system for him to clear up some errors that where being a real bitch to track down(missing files that it trys to load at start up, but cant find whats trying to load them in reg or other config files) he didnt want it reinstalled and was willing to put up with the error messeges because he didnt want to have to deal with getting the system set back up like he likes it.

Hell I can relate, i keep forgetting to make backup images so i can just restore if i start having problems(cant atm, my backup hdd is gone, waiting to get a new larger one)

and one place you must admit linux and mac are better then windows is in the dept of user security, normal users CANT BORK THE SYSTEM UP, where as in windows, even with UAC they can cause the system to not be useable for them(change res outside what the monitor supports for example)

try VL6 on virtual box, play with it a bit, setup opera10(not hard at all) see what i mean about it not being that hard, and far easier then having to track down windows installer buggs(alot of bugs on the install shield forums for example recommend a full system reinstall.....)

linux is far from perfect, but so is windows and so is mac, nothings perfect for everybody or every use, for me windows 2008 rocks, for some it would be very hard to use due to this or that, hell alot of mac users are lost when they see windows, where somebody like me can adapt to damn near anything I run across, even weird ass guis like the 3d cube and sphere gui's some *nix distros have installed, or text based "gui" setups.

the way i see it, adapt or die, because in the computer world things are constantly changing, some for the better, others for the worse.

 

[Wile E]

Stop wandering off course. Ed has nothing to do with this either. lol.

And Apple does not limit OS X apps. just like MS doesn't limit Windows apps. And Apple's support service has nothing to do with this discussion either.

Again, BUGS ARE NOT THE TOPIC AT HAND. Of course Windows apps will have more bugs. It's simple matter of percentages. Leave the bugs out of the discussion.

Nobody claimed any OS was perfect, but if you insist Linux is as easy as Windows or OS X, you are simply delusional. It being harder to use is exactly why it has not gained a strong market share. It is still significantly behind both Windows and OS X, despite all of it's growth.

 

[Braveheart]

well if it works we can say bye bye to desktop app programming and say ello to web apps

 

[Meecrob]

Stop wandering off course. Ed has nothing to do with this either. lol.

And Apple does not limit OS X apps. just like MS doesn't limit Windows apps. And Apple's support service has nothing to do with this discussion either.

Again, BUGS ARE NOT THE TOPIC AT HAND. Of course Windows apps will have more bugs. It's simple matter of percentages. Leave the bugs out of the discussion.

Nobody claimed any OS was perfect, but if you insist Linux is as easy as Windows or OS X, you are simply delusional. It being harder to use is exactly why it has not gained a strong market share. It is still significantly behind both Windows and OS X, despite all of it's growth.

apple keeps far more control over osx then ms does over windows, same as apple keeps far more control over iphones then any other company keeps over their phones, and in this case ITS A GOOD THING, it keeps osx users from having to deal with alot of really crappy installers and such.

and have you used any of the current "easy to use" linux versions m8, they arent any worse for most people then windows is, hell distro's like xandros even let you setup windows apps without any real work!!!!

dependancys are and issue, but you can run into the same shit with windows, havent you ever had an app that needed a file from the visual c++ or visual basic or the java runtime liberys?

I have, and god its freaking annoing, and windows dosnt install them by default, nor do many apps, hell it took me weeks to track down a bug with kalonline a while back for a buddy that was directly linked to the fact he didnt have the visual c 2005 runtimes installed( 2008's dont work,u need 2005 and 2008 as well as the vb runtimes and and and....blah)

the only os that appears to lack dependencies is osx if your words are correct that all osx apps can just be extracted dragged and dropped, BUT alot of noobie users dont even know how to drag and drop.......so they are screwed if they dont want to run everything from the desktop!!!

 

[FordGT90Concept]

dependancys are and issue, but you can run into the same shit with windows, havent you ever had an app that needed a file from the visual c++ or visual basic or the java runtime liberys?

Nope. I don't even have JRT installed. Most quality installers check dependancies and makes sure they are at least as new as required.

 

[Wile E]

apple keeps far more control over osx then ms does over windows, same as apple keeps far more control over iphones then any other company keeps over their phones, and in this case ITS A GOOD THING, it keeps osx users from having to deal with alot of really crappy installers and such.

and have you used any of the current "easy to use" linux versions m8, they arent any worse for most people then windows is, hell distro's like xandros even let you setup windows apps without any real work!!!!

dependancys are and issue, but you can run into the same shit with windows, havent you ever had an app that needed a file from the visual c++ or visual basic or the java runtime liberys?

I have, and god its freaking annoing, and windows dosnt install them by default, nor do many apps, hell it took me weeks to track down a bug with kalonline a while back for a buddy that was directly linked to the fact he didnt have the visual c 2005 runtimes installed( 2008's dont work,u need 2005 and 2008 as well as the vb runtimes and and and....blah)

the only os that appears to lack dependencies is osx if your words are correct that all osx apps can just be extracted dragged and dropped, BUT alot of noobie users dont even know how to drag and drop.......so they are screwed if they dont want to run everything from the desktop!!!

No, again, Apple does not limit app development on OS X in any way, just like windows. Nothing has to be approved by them at all, save for hardware. (and even then, manufactureres can write their own drivers, they just won't be supported by Apple. No different than Windows). The only thing Apple limits is the iPhone.

And despite your complaints against dependencies in Windows, it is a FAR more common issue in Linux. Installing most things in Windows is still easier for the majority of people.

 

[Meecrob]

ok, your correct, linux is trash, its utterly useless to anybody with less then a phd in computer sciences.

i give up, your right, No noob can be stuck on linux and just happily do their day to day activities, its just to damn hard to use and manage.

 

[Wile E]

ok, your correct, linux is trash, its utterly useless to anybody with less then a phd in computer sciences.

i give up, your right, No noob can be stuck on linux and just happily do their day to day activities, its just to damn hard to use and manage.

lol. And again, you show your childishness by insinuating I am an extremist to try to sway people to your point. Nice (failed) attempt.

 

[Ravenas]

yeah, BUT alot of why many companies go back to XP is due to them not knowing enough about windows in the first place.

You can make vista look and feel like XP if you want, SO that cuts the learning curve down, the other main issue is the fact alot of companies dont update to current service packs, I saw a bank wipe their new vista laptops due 100% to the fact that they had vista pre-sp1 issues, had they updated to sp1/sp2 they wouldnt have had the issues they where running into(one of the issues was that adobe reader wouldnt work properly, and adobe+ms patches fixed that long ago)

Companies are not switching because of a "learning curve" or a visual appearance. They are switching because of the memory footprint and the system requirements.