Gates Downplays Chrome OS

[Meecrob]

#1 They're completely different things. And no -- Desktop Ubuntu (like you'd run on a regular PC) is right where I expect it to be right now, going up against the likes of Microsoft and Apple. Ubuntu is going up against decades of entrenched locked-in users, stuck with Microsoft -- it doesn't matter if Ubuntu is the greatest thing since sliced bread, it can't beat Microsoft on its own turf, no matter how much better it is.

But then, it's not supposed to -- the founder himself has said this, time and time and time again. However, it doesn't matter in the long run -- the next generation of computing devices is already shaping up to be a non-Microsoft world, be it smartphones or tablet PC's (whenever the hell they finally get around to marketability ).

#2 To me, Ubuntu is just as easy and dependable at those things it was meant to do. If you're looking for it to do the exact same things as Windows, look elsewhere -- it was never meant for that.

About Debian -- Ubuntu is free to do with Debian whatever it wants, just like Debian is free to do whatever it wants with other GPL code. That's the way it works. Ubuntu's relative "success" (at least in the fact that we're sitting here talking about it) means, to me, that it's doing something that maybe Debian couldn't or didn't want to.

#3 Like I said, YMMV. For the things I do with Ubuntu (browse the web, watch videos, listen to music) I never have any problems. There's nothing to it. I've installed maybe 10 programs over the course of a few years, since I started with Ubuntu. For the things I do with Windows (install games, play games, update games) I have problems from time to time -- not a massive amount, but still a good bit more than Ubuntu.

However, I don't expect you to believe me -- I don't believe half the hardware specs people say they have on this site, either.



Dude -- I got this. Go take five.

the problem with ubuntu is that they DONT GIVE A DAMN THING BACK TO THE LINUX COMMUNITY, and they insist on making everything possible as noobiefied as possible, they also refuse to OPTIMIZE THEIR SHIT, ubuntu is like pre-sp1 vista to be honest, its got potential but its so slow and annoying to use that most people will not want to deal with it and will just move back to windows thinking all linux is as laim as ubuntu.

honestly try VectorLinux6 or Wolvix or any other slack based distro and then try and say ubuntu isnt crap.

 

[mdm-adph]

the problem with ubuntu is that they DONT GIVE A DAMN THING BACK TO THE LINUX COMMUNITY, and they insist on making everything possible as noobiefied as possible, they also refuse to OPTIMIZE THEIR SHIT, ubuntu is like pre-sp1 vista to be honest, its got potential but its so slow and annoying to use that most people will not want to deal with it and will just move back to windows thinking all linux is as laim as ubuntu.

honestly try VectorLinux6 or Wolvix or any other slack based distro and then try and say ubuntu isnt crap.

Everything Ubuntu does with their code is open-source. Nothing is restricted -- you're free to take it and use it for what you want -- how is that not benefiting the community?

I'm not looking for ultra speed, anyway (not that I've ever had a problem with Ubunut's speed) -- I'm looking for ease-of-use. Nothing is easier to me than buying a laptop from Dell for $299 that comes with Ubuntu presintalled.

The last thing I want to do is start messing around with slackware or gentoo or something -- I don't care how fast they are. The things I've heard about gentoo scare me, for instance.

 

[Meecrob]

Everything Ubuntu does with their code is open-source. Nothing is restricted -- you're free to take it and use it for what you want -- how is that not benefiting the community?

I'm not looking for ultra speed, anyway (not that I've ever had a problem with Ubunut's speed) -- I'm looking for ease-of-use. Nothing is easier to me than buying a laptop from Dell for $299 that comes with Ubuntu presintalled.

The last thing I want to do is start messing around with slackware or gentoo or something -- I don't care how fast they are. The things I've heard about gentoo scare me, for instance.

gentoo is for uber geeks who have nothing better to do then sit around playing with code and compiling every app they want to use every time it comes out.

Slack(even the root distro) isnt even close to that bad, and Vector and many other slack based distros have made it easy peezy to setup and use, sure they dont got the MASSIVE repositories that ubuntu has, but if you cant find an app in their repo's you can just request it OR download the RPM and convert it(pretty easy really), some distros even have it setup so they auto compile apps from their source files using the proper optimizations for the systems they are on(makes the app faster and run better)

the only windows app that I have found that works like that is Paint.net and thats due to how proper .net programing works(proper .net apps can be 64bit on 64bit windows and 32bit on 32bit windows and can compile themselves on install)

 

[Wile E]

naaa, you have spent pages telling me that linux is a nightmare, you and dippy and ford, the funny part is that I have seen alot of noobs have serious problems with clean windows installs due to not having DEPENDENCES MET.

mostly due to visual C and Visual Basic runtime liberys not being pre-installed or included in the apps installer, but you insist that dosnt happen, when others here Im sure have had it happen and seen it happen to other people they know.

OSX I have delt with on a low level, Apple dosnt tell people how to fix problems when you call them, 9/10 times tell you to reinstall the os because thats the easiest way to fix all apple related problems(has always been it seems)

Sure not alot of people currently use IRC, BUT every decent linux distro has it built in, and has info on how to connect so that you can get help when/if you need it, they also have forums despite the fact that most people dont use forums either.

and noobuntu(ubuntu) is trash, anybody whos had experience with a decent distro wont touch it, its a bastardized debian thats totally unoptimized and seems to be built by simply taking random apps and tossing their prebuild/compiled versions into a .deb for people to install, where other distros like VL tend to optimize their offerings.

Example KDE, it can be HORRIBLE and SLOW on some systems, I use to blame KDE for this, Till I tried it on VL, I was honestly SHOCKED, KDE was as fast as XFCE, same goes for gnome, the gnome build for VL is FAR faster and more optimized then the ones other distros use.....its shocking how much little things like attn to detail matter

well, you can go on saying that linux is worthless for the average user, I will just be happy Knowing that my dumbass father proves you wrong, hell he even got citrix setup without asking for my help(shocked me to.....)

Your father is an exception. Has he tried to install anything that wasn't in the default repos yet? Has he tried to add a repo just to get a program he wants yet? (Notice the use of the word yet). Get back to me when he does.

And I have never had to reinstall OS X over a problem yet. You talk as if that's a normal thing, and it isn't. You've seen it happen what, once or twice? And then you only did it because tech support told you to. Like linux has a good tech support line as well, ooops, oh wait a minute, what linux tech support line? How is that significant? I've been using OS X since it's release, and any problems I have that prevent booting are usually always fixed by a permissions repair in Disk Utility, or in extreme cases, booting to the install DVD, and running a permissions repair from from Disc Utility on the install disc. The fact is, your OS X knowledge is lacking, and as such, your couple of bad experiences were made a lot worse by you not knowing what to do. OS X repair gets every bit as complicated as Linux or Windows repair at times. Nothing you can do about it. Sometimes shit goes wrong, no matter the OS.

At least we agree on Ubuntu. I hate that distro. lol.

And for the record, just in case I didn't mention it to anyone, I run Fedora normally. If I want a deb distro, I grab Debian.

Everything Ubuntu does with their code is open-source. Nothing is restricted -- you're free to take it and use it for what you want -- how is that not benefiting the community?

I'm not looking for ultra speed, anyway (not that I've ever had a problem with Ubunut's speed) -- I'm looking for ease-of-use. Nothing is easier to me than buying a laptop from Dell for $299 that comes with Ubuntu presintalled.

The last thing I want to do is start messing around with slackware or gentoo or something -- I don't care how fast they are. The things I've heard about gentoo scare me, for instance.

Grab Debian. It's a proper deb distro. Ubuntu is crap compared to it. And if you wanted it to just work, you would've grabbed it with Windows.

gentoo is for uber geeks who have nothing better to do then sit around playing with code and compiling every app they want to use every time it comes out.

 

[mdm-adph]

Grab Debian. It's a proper deb distro. Ubuntu is crap compared to it. And if you wanted it to just work, you would've grabbed it with Windows.

I'd rather not have to bother with it. Ubuntu does what I need, and my Dell came with it pre-installed. Everything worked from day one -- why do I need Windows again?.

For that matter, why do I need to bother downloading, burning, and tweaking another distro again?

 

[Meecrob]

Your father is an exception. Has he tried to install anything that wasn't in the default repos yet? Has he tried to add a repo just to get a program he wants yet? (Notice the use of the word yet). Get back to me when he does.

wasnt even off the repo, thats what suprised the hell out of me, he got it off his school district's links for the critix client and was able to install it himself(hes not very bright at computers......thats why it really shocked me)

and adding more repo's to gslapt is easy, surprisingly easy infact.

And I have never had to reinstall OS X over a problem yet. You talk as if that's a normal thing, and it isn't. You've seen it happen what, once or twice? And then you only did it because tech support told you to. Like linux has a good tech support line as well, ooops, oh wait a minute, what linux tech support line? How is that significant? I've been using OS X since it's release, and any problems I have that prevent booting are usually always fixed by a permissions repair in Disk Utility, or in extreme cases, booting to the install DVD, and running a permissions repair from from Disc Utility on the install disc. The fact is, your OS X knowledge is lacking, and as such, your couple of bad experiences were made a lot worse by you not knowing what to do. OS X repair gets every bit as complicated as Linux or Windows repair at times. Nothing you can do about it. Sometimes shit goes wrong, no matter the OS.

I have had to call them far more then a couple times, enlarge due to a few chicks I met at the local community college, they bought mac's because they where "cute" and the person at the college bookstore said they where easy to use and never had those "pc problems", they all have had various problems that caused apple to tell them to reinstall, them being the "dumb blonde" type(tho none of them are blonde....) had to ask me for help, oh did i mention i really really hate macmini's? i convenced apple to just send me an hdd to toss in one when i convenced them the hdd was going out, took a week to get the drive to me(called monday and it was the next monday or tuesday when it arrived) getting those little things open......well its a chore, replaced the drive, setup the system and the webcam(Built into the apple monitor she bought) wouldnt work, called apple, guess what their fix was.......reinstall, this didnt surprise me, and the fact it didnt work didnt surprise me either, eventually got it all straitened out by calling the local apple shop and they emailed what i needed to me, seems alot of the disks that apple sent to people with serten mini models where missing drivers for some devices >.<

At least we agree on Ubuntu. I hate that distro. lol.

I have hated it since I tried other distro's and found slack based builds, its like they intentionaly try and make it suck ass or something.

And for the record, just in case I didn't mention it to anyone, I run Fedora normally. If I want a deb distro, I grab Debian.

exectly, hell Mepis was great till they started feeding off noobuntu....

http://img.techpowerup.org/090803/gentoo-abducted-1600x1200.png

as to the image, yeah that fits most gentoo users i know, and they dont get why i dont like linux for day to day use as a gamer-geek, I dont fell like recompiling fucking wine every time a new ver or game comes out

 

[Wile E]

wasnt even off the repo, thats what suprised the hell out of me, he got it off his school district's links for the critix client and was able to install it himself(hes not very bright at computers......thats why it really shocked me)

and adding more repo's to gslapt is easy, surprisingly easy infact.




I have had to call them far more then a couple times, enlarge due to a few chicks I met at the local community college, they bought mac's because they where "cute" and the person at the college bookstore said they where easy to use and never had those "pc problems", they all have had various problems that caused apple to tell them to reinstall, them being the "dumb blonde" type(tho none of them are blonde....) had to ask me for help, oh did i mention i really really hate macmini's? i convenced apple to just send me an hdd to toss in one when i convenced them the hdd was going out, took a week to get the drive to me(called monday and it was the next monday or tuesday when it arrived) getting those little things open......well its a chore, replaced the drive, setup the system and the webcam(Built into the apple monitor she bought) wouldnt work, called apple, guess what their fix was.......reinstall, this didnt surprise me, and the fact it didnt work didnt surprise me either, eventually got it all straitened out by calling the local apple shop and they emailed what i needed to me, seems alot of the disks that apple sent to people with serten mini models where missing drivers for some devices >.<



I have hated it since I tried other distro's and found slack based builds, its like they intentionaly try and make it suck ass or something.



exectly, hell Mepis was great till they started feeding off noobuntu....



as to the image, yeah that fits most gentoo users i know, and they dont get why i dont like linux for day to day use as a gamer-geek, I dont fell like recompiling fucking wine every time a new ver or game comes out

Well then, that surprises the hell out of me. He must've actually tried reading, unlike most users. I am actually completely shocked. What distro is he on again?

As for the web cam in OS X (or any issues with missing kexts, for that matter), all you had to do was update with the device plugged in. And just because Apple tech says reinstall, you know damn well that's not what always needs done. All tech support lines are like that, and look for the easy way out. This isn't exclusive to Apple, so stop bringing it up like it's a fault with OS X, because it isn't.

And yeah, I liked Mepis back in the day, where you could boot it live, but use a USB drive to keep you user stuff saved, that way you OS was 100% customizable and portable. And this was done via a simple preference pane. No command line, or advanced configuration needed. Now it's just crap.

 

[Meecrob]

Well then, that surprises the hell out of me. He must've actually tried reading, unlike most users. I am actually completely shocked. What distro is he on again?

As for the web cam in OS X (or any issues with missing kexts, for that matter), all you had to do was update with the device plugged in. And just because Apple tech says reinstall, you know damn well that's not what always needs done. All tech support lines are like that, and look for the easy way out. This isn't exclusive to Apple, so stop bringing it up like it's a fault with OS X, because it isn't.

And yeah, I liked Mepis back in the day, where you could boot it live, but use a USB drive to keep you user stuff saved, that way you OS was 100% customizable and portable. Now it's just crap.

VectorLinux 6 std editon, same one DarkNova has on his laptop.

And yeah alot of techsupport lines pull that, but in my experiance apples the only one that says reinstall quite that much, most of them want to do remote desktop to fix the system for you, hell thats how my father gets stuff fixed on his dell, he even extended his service contract 2 more years so he can keep having them fix his bluetooth keyboard/mouse problems and drivers for new devices like their office laser printer(his home office printer wouldnt install on vista due to UAC issues, dell had to download a diffrent driver to get it working for him)

and mepis was nice, but they went to being part of the noobuntu alliance and it went downhill

Honestly it shocked the hell out of me seeing him using citrix because i know it wasnt part of the os install, went and looked and he had added it himself...........was flaberghasted to be honest......hes a real dumbass and he managed to get it working so he could get some files off his work system.......

 

[Wile E]

I'm seriously speechless that your father managed to pull it off. He must've had help from someone at work. That's the only thing I can even think of.

And what is Vector based on? I don't think I've ever tried it.

 

[Meecrob]

I'm seriously speechless that your father managed to pull it off. He must've had help from someone at work. That's the only thing I can even think of.

And what is Vector based on? I don't think I've ever tried it.

this was in the other room here at my mothers office(i work here) he had no help(why im so shocked)

vector is slack based, highly optimized and they try and keep it easy to use, but dont treat the user like a noobtard moron either, you still have root access(infact you set that account up duing install as well as your user accounts)

I have managed to run vector's older SOHO editions and even this current vl6 on an old ass laptop i have for testing, 233mmx cpu with 208mb ram and a 5.6gb hdd, and its USEABLE, not fast but useable, it can even play ogg music as you type stuff up, try even getting debian/ubuntu or fedora installed on this POS and it will error during install, IF you manage to get it fully installed it will chug so bad you cant really use it, but under VL using xfce or LXDM its quite useable, not lightning fast ofcorse but USEABLE!!!!

Wolvix is another good slack based distro, tho its a bit more work to setup(no gui installer unlike vl6)

I also had some like lunar linux that compile themselves on install, but they take DAYS to compile on slower older systems so its not worth the bother.

For noobies I still say that Xandros is the best bet as it will support most windows apps "out of the box" due to it having crossover built-in and the repo being HUGE and designed so that anybody who can use a mouse can use it(no dependancy issues because it deals with them on its own)

but as a 2nd option thats FREE vector is my top choice, it really is just EASY TO MANAGE, oh, and yes it has a few querks, but nothing i havent seen windows do at times, like nic cards that wont get DHCP auto forcing a driver reinstall or config change/reset, but unlike windows VL makes that easy to deal with as u can just enter the network manager and change 2 settings, restart and it works, windows.......oi, dont even get me started about how much hassle xp sp2 gave me with nic's wired and wireless!!!(stupid windows firewall!!!!)