Gigabyte X870E Aorus Master

[ir_cow]

Actually,

MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI​

Wrong thread?

 

[Ten Shin Han]

Wrong thread?

Maybe.
I expressed my opinion that "Gigabyte X870E Aorus Master" is not so great.
Then I gave a real example to clarify and/or even prove my point.
Hope this helps.

 

[chrcoluk]

The wifi ez stuff is interesting, and M.2 tool free is how it should have bveen from day 1.

 

[csendesmark]

I regret not going with USB and buying the vertical m2 wlan card and the vertical m2 metal casing housing. My mainboard had an unused m2 pcie slot for wlan - without the metal housing and antennas.

The mainboard is the piece of hardware I may keep the longest. I was forced to sell my B550 mainboard because of hardware and software issues. The motivation was to get back some of the money I spend for the mainboard. The newer mainboard has a new warranty period, a longer support period as it's a newer platform, more and better expansion slots and finally to get rid of some of the mainboard progblems. I did not expect that intel fooled me twice with broken software for their WLAN cards on two different mainboards. (A hidden problem I was not aware of at the time of purchase)
It was also very foolish to buy a B550 mainboard at the end of the product life cycle.

I'd like to have an option to plugin some future expansion cards: higher USB port plugin card, harddrive controller, some sort of second graphic card, tv tuner card, whatever, ... oscilloscope measuring card, sound card, ...

If you wish to have good connectivity but have no money for the Threadripper (like me), go for the ProArt X870E or wait for the Gigabyte X870E AERO.
Personally I had the X570S AERO and now I use the X870E ProArt, liked both

The available 24 PCIe 5.0 lanes of from the CPU should be dedicated to most critical functions: [ 1 x GPU PCIe 5.0 x 16 ] ++++ [ 2 x M.2 NVMe Gen5x4 with RAID 0 support ]

I did not see a single X870 board where the second m2 were not shared with the PCIe 16× slot, including your suggested MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI.

Same as mine.

 

[azrael]

I'm curious, what do you need so many PCIe slots for? I mean, I use one of my two additional slots for my 10 Gbps card, but I have no need for the second one.
Most people don't seem to use anything beyond the one for the graphics card these days.

It is limited by the CPU and it's PCIe lane number,
Sadly there is no better alternative, if you want more of those you have to pay up and the Threadripper.
R.I.P. money

I am also interested why would you need 3 PCIe connector, I do why I want mine with 3, but still interested.

Kapone already explained it quite well, but let me add my take on it. Yes, the CPU and the chipset are the limiting factors here (and AMD should really step up here). However, why force the way these limited resources are spent? These days you get tons of USB ports and the number of M.2 slots is on the rise as well. What is more flexible? USB ports on the board or as an add-in card if you need them? M.2 slots on the board or as an add-in card? And those are just two examples.

Personally, I like to have as many PCIe slots as possible. Then *I* can decide what to do with them and also *which* of them to use. Placement of add-in cards can sometimes be important, e.g. with sound cards (yes, I still prefer sound cards over on-board audio regardless of how much it may have gotten better).

Ok, I know what UEFI is, but that wasn't mentioned.

Remove the U and you have EFI, technically only Apple used it in consumer devices, but apparently Intel and HP used it with Itanium as well.
UEFI is just the more commonly used form of EFI.

EFI was the original name, back when Intel and HP developed it for and introduced it with the Itanic ...sorry, Itanium. I'm not really sure why they deemed it necessary to rename it to UEFI. As has been said, UEFI has been used for more than a decade now instead of the BIOS. If you're wondering why it often still looks the same then it's probably because of the CSM (Compatibility Shim Module) which emulates an old-style BIOS.

One thing I'd personally like to be added to future motherboard reviews is ECC support. Most CPUs these days support it (even Intel, again ...sort of) but that doesn't help unless the motherboard supports it as well. For AMD for the longest while only ASUS and ASRock supported it. Now Gigabyte seems to as well. MSI apparently CBA though. Don't know about lesser known brands, but they probably don't as well. Intel is a bit of an outlier here, because although its CPUs (now again) support it you need a motherboard with a specific chipset (thanks for the artificial product segmentation, Intel) and those are far and few between, not to mention insanely expensive.

 

[Broken Processor]

I'm curious, what do you need so many PCIe slots for? I mean, I use one of my two additional slots for my 10 Gbps card, but I have no need for the second one.
Most people don't seem to use anything beyond the one for the graphics card these days.

Audio cards, Nic and an additional mobo usb 2 card in my case.
My dedicated (modded) SB Audigy or Asus Xonar STI 2 still beats any on board audio, additional Nic and on my current board the mobo usb 2.0 headers don't play nice with RGB controllers and Aqua Computer D5 next, Leak Shield & Flow sensor. Not exactly nich use cases and a 500.00 board should manage.

Aqua computer USB Splitty's got all my USB devices connected but I'd get conflict's randomly and the pcie card fixed that I've been considering changing power supply to the Lian Li Edge as this could potentially be an alternative but honestly Lian Li build quality doesn't impress me so I'll need more research and advice on that.

For Sound I could use a usb DAC I've a modded DAC up stairs that's really decent but maybe it's bias but it doesn't sound as good to me plus I loose a bunch of options that I use and I'm definitely not against usb DAC I've a Steel Series Arctus Nova Pro wireless that I use in FPS games and it's brilliant for that but like most headsets it's OK for music and that's fine until I want to listen to hi-res audio files then even my cabbage ears can tell the difference at 24bit 96Hz yes 96hz I can't tell the difference above that.

I'm in the upgrade market soon just waiting on 9950x3d before I decided where I'm going but it seems to me Motherboard's have become very focused and if you're use case falls outside of what they think we need your going to have a difficult time.
Manufacturer's need to remember that gaming boards and Enthusiast boards are two different thing's and I don't think it's unreasonable to be able to do Enthusiast things on a 500.00+ board these days considering I could do it on a 170.00 board less that 10 years ago.

 

[Ten Shin Han]

I did not see a single X870 board where the second m2 were not shared with the PCIe 16× slot, including your suggested MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI.

My explanations included the following copy/paste from MSI MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI specification page:

** USB 40Gbps Type-C ports on the back panel and M2_2 slot share PCIe 5.0 x4 bandwidth. Both run at PCIe 5.0 x2 when a device is installed in the M2_2 slot. You can switch M2_2 to PCIe 5.0 x4 in the BIOS, but this will disable the USB 40Gbps Type-C ports
(fair enough, I don't care about USB 40 Gbps)

so yes, the second M.2 Gen5x4 is shared, but only with the USB 4.0, as shown again in the diagram from the official documentation

Hope this helps.

Now what is surprising in the diagram above is: why on earth would anyone connect relatively slow USB 2.0 Type-A devices directly to the CPU ?

My intution is to support technology like Nvidia Reflex:

reflex-low-latency-platform

reflex-low-latency-platform

www.nvidia.com

quote:

Reflex Latency Analyzer detects clicks coming from your mouse and then measures the time it takes for the resulting pixels (i.e. a gun muzzle flash) to change on screen. This type of measurement has been virtually impossible for gamers to do before now, requiring over $7000 in specialized high-speed cameras and equipment.

so connecting the mouse or game controller to the CPU could save few precious micro-seconds (compared if connected to the chipset) that can make difference between life or death in online gaming ??

fascinating !

 

[Hankieroseman]

I am appalled by the rise in pricing. It's the first time in my life I see a $500 motherboard. I thought the F4tality one at $300 was a bit much not too long ago. If you add a top end graphic card, you get a $2500 price tag for both. This used to be the cost of an entire high end gig 4 years ago, monitor included!

I remember buying boards for $50 and building a computer for a $1000 that my friends would buy. They were good boards. Can't remember the brand though.

Let me explain in my words.

there is the pcie express standard. We are not at pcie 5.0. This determines the speed which one pcie lane has.

Mechanically can a long physical expansion slot have 16 pcie lanes. Electrically it can be made 2 or 4 or 8 or 16 (according to the mainboard software and hardware) pcie lanes. The lanes also can be from the type pcie 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or pcie 5.0

edit: TheLostSwede is of course right. I saw recently a mainboard which had electrically two lanes of pcie express 3 on an expansion slot. I was unprecise

Just because you see on certain mainboard a long physical expansion slot, it can still be theses days sadly pcie 3.0 with 4 lanes. I would have expected 16 lanes with pcie 4.0

Summary: physical slot vs electrical usable pcie express amout of pcie express lanes

--



I regret not going with USB and buying the vertical m2 wlan card and the vertical m2 metal casing housing. My mainboard had an unused m2 pcie slot for wlan - without the metal housing and antennas.

The mainboard is the piece of hardware I may keep the longest. I was forced to sell my B550 mainboard because of hardware and software issues. The motivation was to get back some of the money I spend for the mainboard. The newer mainboard has a new warranty period, a longer support period as it's a newer platform, more and better expansion slots and finally to get rid of some of the mainboard progblems. I did not expect that intel fooled me twice with broken software for their WLAN cards on two different mainboards. (A hidden problem I was not aware of at the time of purchase)
It was also very foolish to buy a B550 mainboard at the end of the product life cycle.

I'd like to have an option to plugin some future expansion cards: higher USB port plugin card, harddrive controller, some sort of second graphic card, tv tuner card, whatever, ... oscilloscope measuring card, sound card, ...

An old bifurcation map would be useful to show which lanes go where.

 

[MicroUnC]

Realtek ALC1220 Codec AGAIN!!!

 

[ir_cow]

Realtek ALC1220 Codec AGAIN!!!

ALC4080 is basically just a rebranded 1220. Think nothing of it

 

[csendesmark]

My explanations included the following copy/paste from MSI MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI specification page:

** USB 40Gbps Type-C ports on the back panel and M2_2 slot share PCIe 5.0 x4 bandwidth. Both run at PCIe 5.0 x2 when a device is installed in the M2_2 slot. You can switch M2_2 to PCIe 5.0 x4 in the BIOS, but this will disable the USB 40Gbps Type-C ports
(fair enough, I don't care about USB 40 Gbps)

so yes, the second M.2 Gen5x4 is shared, but only with the USB 4.0, as shown again in the diagram from the official documentation

View attachment 373088

Hope this helps.

Now what is surprising in the diagram above is: why on earth would anyone connect relatively slow USB 2.0 Type-A devices directly to the CPU ?

My intution is to support technology like Nvidia Reflex:

reflex-low-latency-platform

reflex-low-latency-platform

www.nvidia.com

quote:

Reflex Latency Analyzer detects clicks coming from your mouse and then measures the time it takes for the resulting pixels (i.e. a gun muzzle flash) to change on screen. This type of measurement has been virtually impossible for gamers to do before now, requiring over $7000 in specialized high-speed cameras and equipment.

so connecting the mouse or game controller to the CPU could save few precious micro-seconds (compared if connected to the chipset) that can make difference between life or death in online gaming ??

fascinating !

Now I see it better,
Why MSI not posting the block diagram in their manuals... shame.
Same goes to ASUS.

 

[Upgrayedd]

This fan stuck on the top of the mobo looks pretty cheezy to say it nicely. It seems like they skimped on R&D.

Better something than nothing. I imagine this is because everyone thinks their boards don't need airflow anymore. Glass panel cases with no real directed airflow over the board and the popularity of AIOs is neglect to the board.

 

[LittleBro]

Wow, 16 VRM phases for CPU, each rated for 110A.

Theoretically, it should provide support for delivery up to 1760 A while even the craziest OCed Zen 4/5 CPUs would consume less than 300A, otherwise they would be kind of "uncoolable".

I'm curious, what do you need so many PCIe slots for? I mean, I use one of my two additional slots for my 10 Gbps card, but I have no need for the second one.
Most people don't seem to use anything beyond the one for the graphics card these days.

What if I want to leverage faster ethernet speeds but my integrated NIC only supports 1 Gbps? I buy 2.5 Gbps PCIe expansion card.
What if I want to use proper sound card instead of that shitty integrated solution? I buy dedicated sound card which requires PCIe x1 port.
What if I have only 2 M.2 ports on my mobo and I want to have more without changing mobo and reainstalling OS? There's PCIe to NVMe M.2 adapter for it.
What if I want to have second RAID array for my M.2 SSDs? There's PCIe to NVMe M.2 bifurcation adapter for it.
What if I want to install AI accelerator to my NPU-less computer?
What if I want to use another Thunderbolt or USB expension card, or even SATA controller card?
What if ...

Where your requirements for PCIe ports end, don't end requirements for PCIe ports of others.

The mainboard is the piece of hardware I may keep the longest.

You can't explain this to Intel users. They can't imagine about possibility to use Zen 3 (2021) in AM4 mobo with B350 chipset (2017).

I was forced to sell my B550 mainboard because of hardware and software issues. The motivation was to get back some of the money I spend for the mainboard. The newer mainboard has a new warranty period, a longer support period as it's a newer platform, more and better expansion slots and finally to get rid of some of the mainboard progblems. I did not expect that intel fooled me twice with broken software for their WLAN cards on two different mainboards. (A hidden problem I was not aware of at the time of purchase)
It was also very foolish to buy a B550 mainboard at the end of the product life cycle.

I actually don't have problems with Intel I225-V rev. 2.0 on my B550 mobo. Took several driver updates but no problems with sudden network connection drops.
Intel users usually don't understand this

I'd like to have an option to plugin some future expansion cards: higher USB port plugin card, harddrive controller, some sort of second graphic card, tv tuner card, whatever, ... oscilloscope measuring card, sound card, ...

This ^^. It's about damn flexibility and always was. Amen to that.

Also it's diappointing that they allow no flexibility in connecting the Promontory chips. Each chip on its own PCIe x4 port would enable more possibilities for expansion (even if Gen5 bandwidth would be wasted).

This would be very nice to have feature, but would require adjustments in IOD chip, of which we know is obsolete (reused from Zen 4).
Remember, though, when you divide lanes, you must implement PCIe switch which increases latencies a bit. But who cares about latencies stuff connected to chipset ...

Biggest problem now is CPU <> chipset interconnection not utilizing PCIe 5.0 speed.

Actually,

MAG X870 TOMAHAWK WIFI​

M2_1 & M2_2 slots
• Supports up to PCIe 5.0 x4 (For Ryzen™ 9000/ 7000 Series processors)
• Supports up to PCIe 4.0 x4 (For Ryzen™ 8000 Series processors)

* The M2_2 slot will be unavailable when using Ryzen™ 8500/ 8300 Series processors.
** USB 40Gbps Type-C ports on the back panel and M2_2 slot share PCIe 5.0 x4 bandwidth. Both run at PCIe 5.0 x2 when a device is installed in the M2_2 slot. You can switch M2_2 to PCIe 5.0 x4 in the BIOS, but this will disable the USB 40Gbps Type-C ports (fair enough, I don't care about USB 40 Gbps)
*** PCI_E3 slot will run at x2 speed when installing device in the M2_3 slot. You can switch PCI_E3 slot to x4 in the BIOS, but this will disable the M2_3 slot.
**** Please refer to the manual for M.2 SSD heatsink restrictions

et voilà !

This is actually proper approach. USB 4.0 should be optional, meaning available to be disabled. But then, well, X870 would be same as B650E ... ehm, not good for marketing. Hey, you must have USB 4.0! Even if you don't need it, you want it. Even if you don't want it ... but that feeling! X800/B800/A800 series AMD chipsets are a joke.

 

[waltc]

$500 big ones and they removed the backplate compared to the X670E Master. WTF....

I had the same thought initially, and then it occurred to me that the x870e Master is an 8-layer PCB so possibly GB determined it was sufficiently bend resistant w/o the backplate. I love the x570 backplate, myself, and thought it marvelous in the x570 Master, a 6-layer PCB.

I have been using an MSI x870e Carbon wifi board (as reviewed here at Techpowerup) and I'm fairly certain I got a bad mboard. I've had more problems with this thing than I've ever had with a motherboard since I bought an Abit gray market mboard from a fly-by-night seller because it was so cheap. It was electrically ruined... Pretty sure it was a DOA returned mboard. I went back to find the guy the next day and poof--he was gone! I learned a valuable lesson that day, maybe 20 years ago, IIRC. If it's too good to be true, then it likely isn't, etc.

Anyway...this MSI mboard is horrible, so far. Bought from Newegg on Black Friday 2023, new, for $385. Went back to the reviews written there and saw a review by a guy who said he'd been through four of them(!) and he was throwing in the towel and calling it trash. Even the Newegg commentary on the mboard was lukewarm--so the fault was mine--in too much of a hurry when I bought it. Years ago, I'd had several MSI boards--had no trouble. Soon as I get the x870e Master in this month, I'll return this mboard to MSI under RMA and see if I can get a good one. With the MSI 870e carbon wifi I replaced the CMOS battery, thinking that might help--it didn't. I had to actually remove the VRM sinks to get to the CMOS battery, which was just taped or glued to another component on the board--didn't even have it's own cradle--like everything else does--connected to the mboard by a twisted pair of wires...

Meantime, I'm still enjoying the heck out of my GB x570 Master, 3900X system! Still running like a top since July 2019 when I bought it. That's another plug for the GB But anyway, I don't know why they didn't throw in another backplate for the x870e and my guess about the xtra layered PCB us just that, a guess.

Good review on the 870e Master!

 

[onoffertrips]

I think Asus

ProArt X870E-Creator WiFi​

is a better choice in terms of connectors though the prices of Asus and Gigabyte motherboards may be close or similar.

Hence, I will choose Asus product for its 10gbps port, many usb 3.2 gen 2 ports.

 

[waltc]

Above, I said I bought the 870e Carbon Wifi--no, I didn't, I bought the x670e Carbon wifi, I meant to say. Sorry for the goof up. My fault, I've been thinking about 870e's so much lately my head aches... Ah, it's a pleasant ache, though, as I love technology. (They see me coming a mile away.) I was seriously considering an Asus 870e board, myself, but decided to go with the 870e Aorus Master simply because my 5+ years with the x570 Master/3600X & 3900X have been so rewarding and unremarkable. I hope AMD has done a good job teething the AM5 AGESA's so far--I don't really care for teething periods. But the x570's teething trials were expected because Zen2 in 2019 was a brand-new, hot off the presses' architecture, and those always entail a healthy teething process, IIRC.

One thing I saw that I really didn't like about the crop of 670e/870e AM5 boards when offered was the fact that only the top-end boards feature a Clear CMOS button on the backplane! I just can't figure that one. It was such a relief not to have to open the damned case to set the Clear CMOS jumper--which often I found underneath my GPU (which also had to come out.) By now, a backplane Clear CMOS button should be standard everywhere. When I was younger, I often didn't mind setting the jumper inside, but I sure didn't like it. It's always two steps forward and one step back, isn't it? I also didn't appreciate that the cost of the 870e Master came in at $140 above the cost of the x570 Master, new. The x870e Aorus Master never went on sale on Black Friday, '24, so I figure they must be selling all they can make. Another good sign, I hope... When it arrives and I install it, I'll try to come out here and post about my experience with it--which I hope is great. I'm pairing it with 2 x16GB Trident Z5 6400 CL32 DIMMs and a 7900X to start with, so we shall see!

 

[CannonFodder]

Thanks for the in depth review! Well written and photographed!

One bit of commentary on the review. Moving the M2 to the lower slots instead of the top one will cause the PCIE 5.0 normally used for our GPU's to throttle to x8.

I'm not sure how much of an impact moving from x16 to x8 will make (use cases vary), but before moving your system drive away from that slot closest to the CPU it is something to consider.

Might be worth a mention in the write up. Just my 2c.

Thanks again!

 

[kapone32]

Thanks for the in depth review! Well written and photographed!

One bit of commentary on the review. Moving the M2 to the lower slots instead of the top one will cause the PCIE 5.0 normally used for our GPU's to throttle to x8.

I'm not sure how much of an impact moving from x16 to x8 will make (use cases vary), but before moving your system drive away from that slot closest to the CPU it is something to consider.

Might be worth a mention in the write up. Just my 2c.

Thanks again!

Throttle is not the right word. I guarantee you will feel no difference. You might even get a benefit based on the new 3DMark Direct Storage test.

 

[CannonFodder]

This is more what I am talking about on Gigabyte's Documentation:

 

[ir_cow]

You gain two M2 slots by taking it away from the GPU. Not a bad thing as 8x 4.0 is enough for anything but a 4090 and the 50 series is Gen 5.0 so that will be fine as well.

 

[waltc]

If you cannot already tell, I'm having a wonderful time with AM5...bought a cheap Gigabyte 850W Gold new and right off the bat it died. When unpacking, I noticed how small it was for an 850W PSU compared with my Corsair 850W'ers, both of them. Got a midtower case--Lian Li 216 LanCool--and the cables supplied were barely long enough to connect the ATX motherboard. So-called "bargains" these days seem to be anything but.

If and when I get AM5 things working as advertised I'll come back and write it up.

 

[529th]

Surprised this only has 1 USB Type A port to the CPU. On my X570 board I have both mouse and keyboard plugged into the CPU USB ports

 

[waltc]

OK, Guys...I'm baaa-aack... This time with good news!

I have no idea what I did--none--but the x870e Aorus Master I've been complaining about is now working like a champ, and I am using it right now.

Here are a few salient facts.

1) Contrary to my earlier experience, the Gigabyte 850W Gold, latest revision, was not dead at all--even though I thought it dead because with it fully plugged in, PSU power switch on, both the standby lights for the Q-flash + and Clear CMOS buttons were dead, as was the internal standby light on the board itself. Various connection checks and power switching on the PSU changed nothing. (Now I'm wondering if by some chance I didn't have all of the ATX main 12v pins plugged in and making snug contact.)

2) Last night I decided to take another look at the system, but before removing the GB PSU I decided to simply plug it in again, just to check. Suddenly, I had all the standby lights--darned thing is running fine now. Go figure. Maybe a PFC circuit fired and shut it down temporarily to prevent damage...although why it should have done that is a puzzle. But anyway, it's working now at full capacity. (Famous last words: "But I could swear I did it right!")

3) I had already removed the ram--several times, actually--and reseated it one DIMM at a time--starting with B2, and working back, so I did not expect anything to have changed there, either. But with the insertion of one 16GB DIMM in B2, lo and behold, the system actually booted to the onboard Radeon, as I had not inserted my 6900XT as of yet, nor had I installed my NVMe drives. I was simply interested in getting into the bios--because then I knew the rest would work, no problem. After shutdown, I put the other DIMM in A2, and the system booted to bios, no problem, the full 32GBs running fine @ 4800MT/s. (The ram is rated for 6400MT/s.)

4) I installed the 6900XT and my NVMe boot drives (including the former boot install NVMe for the 3900XT system, Win 11 Pro build 26100.2605.) Booted right up into the Windows desktop. Went to the AMD site and downloaded the AMD chipset drivers, installed those, and then went to the GB site and downloaded the latest bios version, F4i, as the board had shipped with F3. After I installed the F4i using Q-flash, I made sure to Clear CMOS, and the system booted up, no problem, as expected and hoped for. Then I installed Gigabyte Control Center.

5) System still running like a top. Will see what happens at 6400MT/s or thereabouts.

Tip: I advise everyone not to omit Clearing CMOS after a bios flash, as that hasn't changed.

Conclusion: OK, this AM5 7800x3D GB Aorus Master ROCKs, now that I've got it running... Why didn't it run the first time? I just don't know. It's all a blur... But this system is quite advanced over my trusty Zen2 3900x Aorus Master, I must say that!...

 

[waltc]

One last remark...system is running like a top @6400MT/s, all bios options for performance enabled, including XMP @39-39-102-141. Chugging along like a champ at system memory/uncore speeds of 3200MHz, 100% stable so far in every game and application I've thrown at it. This system is now my main system, with the 3900X going to the wife (when I get around to it--she's still happy with her ancient AMD FX-6300 6-core on an equally ancient MSI 990-FX motherboard from so far back I can't remember using it... She does Internet and that's about it.)

Eventually, I'm sure I will dust off the dormant x670e MSI Carbon WiFi and use it to update her system. If it will work, that is.

One note I meant to add earlier: I didn't buy the x670e Aorus Master last year (2023) when I purchased the x670e MSI ATX board because for some reason the Aorus Master, IIRC, was only offered in E-ATX. The x870e is ATX. Go figure.