Global Warming & Climate Change Discussion

[bnjohanson]

I think we will see some climate change over the next 100 years. In terms of it being catastrophic, we don't really know.

The facts are that we are pumping the air full of co2 while deforesting the world. And that won't really stop until we start running out of non-renewable resources. When that happens, most of the problem ceases to exist.

In terms of the earth's health. It will recover regardless (over time). For us humans though, I think we will suffer more at the point when we run out of fossil fuels, then by how the climate changes over the next 20 or so years.

"we" ??? Let's not conveniently gloss-over the FACT that a volcanic eruption just the size of St/ Helens in 1981 belched more CO2 into the atmosphere than mankind has since The Industrial Revolution of the early/mid 1800's up to that point in the early 1980's....

...this persistent assumption and delusion of grandeur applied to man as whole by many humans is a serious flaw, of many of course, in the human condition and will unfortunately continue unabated to create motivations by man to engage not only into some unbelievably stupid acts, but the myriad of unintended consequence that we have been guilty of since our inception. THAT is the real danger of mankind....

 

[metalslaw]

Source?

Because from what i've read just now, it's the complete opposite.

(But, i'm always open minded. Find me a source to change my thoughts on this.)

 

[W1zzard]

Source?

Not sure what info specifically you are requesting, but if you are looking for an intro to the science, try:

no flashy animations like in popular tv shows, but no bs inflated for drama either, touches the majority of climate related subjects, no math required.

If you want to have a really deep understanding of all the issues involved:
https://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=-XXv-cvA_iBFxhFMRdhNkGckOuVLxlYi

 

[R-T-B]

Deforestation is admittedly more of an issue than raw co2 output, but combined the two effects are accelerating the warming process beyond any doubt.

The idea that people seem to think mankind is a fart on this planet at this point is frankly disturbing. I mean, what's more influential to this planet if not us? Have you seen the earth from space?

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

Ice Age? The earth is only 6000 years old so that can't be true...Global warming is just the Creators/Gods love warming the earth. Just pray harder and everything will be okay!

j/k

Edit - My point is it will take every person, organization and religion to make a change this profound. When you have people that believe the unbelievable, even when presented with scientific PROOF, how can we (all humans) be expected to change because it will require a massive shift from the vast majority of humans on how we treat the planet.

 

[AphexDreamer]

Sure all of the human population can fit in the state of Texas but that doesn't mean our effect on this planet is negligible. If that were the case why have environmental laws? The truth is this ant pile of a species has a great impact on the global environment. The line of reasoning that we are small and therefor have no impact is asinine.

Out of all the possible warming sources to this Global System there is no source adequate enough to explain the rapid warming we are experiencing other than it being anthropomorphic.

 

[rruff]

It actually is 99.5% (year 2008 data, probably higher now). Only good post in this thread though.

The real scandal is that the pundits can so thoroughly confuse the issue with BS.

 

[Luka KLLP]

Us humans have come to dominate this planet with our technologies and discoveries, I just hope we use these technologies and discoveries the right way, ie: make sure we don't destroy this planet and all the species on it. Get into more durable energy sources, preserve the nature and wilfdlife etc.

The sad part about all this stuff about CO2 output etc. is that is will only work if done on a global scale. If the Dutch government here went full on solar panel/ windmills it won't make a difference if China and other countries keep spewing out all sorts of filth into the air...

 

[Frick]

How much hubris do we need to have to think the world revolves around us? The sun, Earth's tilt, volcanoes, and slightly varying distances from the sun are what affect our climate more than anything else.

Everything's part of the equation, even my beautiful 1991 Volvo. While our hubris is a thing to be critical about for sure, this is not the occasion to be philosophical about it and wash your hands and say "'tis a thing we cannot know" and pretend it's nothing. In a way it is nothing in that we probably can't/won't do anything about it, but the problem is still there.

 

[the54thvoid]

It's amusing that people don't seem to be reading the science (it's quite dull). That the pollutants that we have created in the past few couple hundred years are contributing to warming is widely accepted. The problem is the interpretation, it's almost biblical - you can make it sound anyway you want it too. The facts are pretty self evident and the warming is happening. The inter-stadial we are in (the little warm bit between ice ages) is of no consequence right now. Likewise, the solar patterns of the sun, they are of no consequence to the argument. What is relevant is if mankind is accelerating climate 'change'. Yes. Duh.
Do volcanoes do worse than us? Of course. Their emissions can be huge and they have an effect very quickly. Our contribution is low level but sustained however as opposed to brief and massive. The volcano is a stab with a machete, we are simply paper cuts every day but in the long run, it's going to affect us.
Our weakness also lies in our transience. As industrial creatures we have been around for barely a century or so - a fleeting blink in a very old timeline, the geological processes the naysayers jump to mention take tens of thousands of years to progress. We are generally inept at making decisions based longer than our own lifetimes - we are insignificant in that picture.

Climate change is also dumping more CO2 into the ocean, a vast heat sink which has helped offset temp rise as measured by the air. However CO2 is an acid in water and the increased acidification of the oceans (and the temp rise of the water) is already having an effect. The air temp, the ice ages etc are all irrelevant to us now but the ocean's health is far more worrying. If you require proof of ocean changes you can observe the past few decades of hurricane activity (warm seas = more intensity), coral reef destruction (acid sensitive), jellyfish blooms and degradation of sub surface ice sheets.

It's a no brainer really. It's not going to kill us yet but it will change how we live in the next few centuries but you'll all be dead by then. And also, what's the point in worrying because while we are all run by massive capitalist corporations, we're doomed to live subservient lives, pretending we're free and living on Soma and false importance.

 

[rtwjunkie]

It seems none of the hyteria proponents have followed up on the clear evidence in ice layers and sediment layers that the Earth has thousands of times over millions of years heated up and cooled down,sometimes alot, sometimes a little. The Earth will keep on doing this, regardless of how much hubris humans have about their impact on temperature.

And really, for people to be all aghast on our "impact", while using electricity and/or batteries, on their poisonous component computers, which have also robbed the soil of the miniscule rare earth minerals is downright hypocracy. Just my two cents.

 

[64K]

I found this site to be interesting.
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/last_400k_yrs.html


"The hottest period in human history was 7,500 to 4,000 years ago. Long before humans invented industrial pollution."
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/ice_ages.html#anchor2117056

 

[rruff]

And also, what's the point in worrying because while we are all run by massive capitalist corporations, we're doomed to live subservient lives, pretending we're free and living on Soma and false importance.

One reason I'm not too worked up about climate change... we will face a much bigger crisis within the next few decades when consumer capitalism becomes obsolete.

BTW, did ya'll know we are currently living in an ice age, and have been since proto-humans walked the earth?

We are currently in a inter-glacial (warm) period within this ice age. The big ice sheets we had 25k years ago were more the norm that what we have now.

That's another reason why I'm not too worried about our fossil fuels warming the planet. And another is that fossil fuels will become too inefficient to use before we are able to have a really serious effect on the climate.

 

[SK-1]

Less than 100 years of industrialization has changed this 4.54 billion year old planet? So lets tax the weather...That'll fix it!
Now the warming "pause" is being blamed to the oceans acting like a Heat Sink...imagine that, the ocean doing what it's supposed to do!

 

[Wrigleyvillain]

Give me a break, qubit. How I wish it were just a "hoax" but the most plausible and believable signs all point to not. And like there isn't tons of "money" in oil and coal etc. I just don't buy that conspiracy argument at all and never did. It just does not jibe with common sense. Neil Degrasse Tyson is in it for the cash?

And SK-1 the point is the accelerated rate at which the oceans are now warming and the poles melting…etc etc

 

[SK-1]

And SK-1 the point is the accelerated rate at which the oceans are now warming and the poles melting…etc etc

Accelerated compared to what? A bunch of broken weather models or the tinkered with (climate gate 1.0,2.0 and now this) climate data?
http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/uploads/CMIP5-90-models-global-Tsfc-vs-obs-thru-2013.png

 

[metalslaw]

"we" ??? Let's not conveniently gloss-over the FACT that a volcanic eruption just the size of St/ Helens in 1981 belched more CO2 into the atmosphere than mankind has since The Industrial Revolution of the early/mid 1800's up to that point in the early 1980's....

Not sure what info specifically you are requesting, but if you are looking for an intro to the science, try:i

Sorry W1zzard, was asking 'source' for bnjohanson's claim of St Helens ejecting more co2 than what mankind has done. Should have been a bit clearer there I guess, and quoted regardless of being next post.

Anyway, here is what I found regarding his claim, http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/archive/2007/07_02_15.html

 

[qubit]

Give me a break, qubit.

Ok, have a KitKat.

 

[64K]

Ok, have a KitKat.

 

[SK-1]

95%+ of scientists agree global warming is accelerated greatly by humans. I tend to trust scientists over most since they peer review their research and they usually do their work out of raw curiosity..

It actually is 99.5% (year 2008 data, probably higher now). Only good post in this thread though

The real scandal is that the pundits can so thoroughly confuse the issue with BS.

Time for enlightenment. This 97%-99 stuff is made up. let's do a little research.
"The assertion that 97% of scientists believe that climate change is a man-made, urgent problem is a fiction. The so-called consensus comes from a handful of surveys and abstract-counting exercises that have been contradicted by more reliable research."

Read how the "Vast majority" claim was kinda...wrong. Honestly makes me embarrassed to say I'm from Illinois
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303480304579578462813553136

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Turning into a readaphon article slapdown thread this I think it truly is a great divider but a sobering thought is half the world cant see this debate and its fair to say we're ripping the raw materials out right now to sort that out cos that lot(the great unconnected) alsoo want all that the west have and it might cost the earth to get it so roll on to point b the bigger war its gotta be coming right that or the big starve.

 

[R-T-B]

I don't think another ice age is an avoidable occurance. I'm not an idiot.

I do think we are accelerating the rate at which it occurs, and anyone who thinks otherwise is ignoring quite a bit of facts about mankinds more than average impact in his brief time on this world.

Deforestation COUPLED with the CO2 increase is our biggest issue. If we keep up the rate of destruction of our one oxygen renewal source, we'll have bigger things to worry about than our global temperature.

 

[Bansaku]

Climate change is very real folks! It is just than us Humans have zero impact on what Mother Earth does. CO2 is NOT pollution, rather vital food for those green things we call plants that create that stuff we breathe, oxygen. It is nothing more than the new boogyman or God tax; both are unseen yet are believed in.

Man made climate change is BS. Man made environmental change, well, no argument there.

 

[Arctucas]

95%+ of scientists agree global warming is accelerated greatly by humans. I tend to trust scientists over most since they peer review their research and they usually do their work out of raw curiosity.. I mean without scientists where would the world be? Every advancement is because of them, we couldn't even have this conversation without them. If one thinks about this objectively it is quite clear.

"defraud us of our money and freedom" is probably the most hilarious thing I have read in a while. When people live in such a small bubble and think of only themselves this is how they feel.


I am saddened that we may not be able to change the future much though.

Climate change is a natural occurrence. The planet warms and cools based on many factors, over many millennia. Solar activity is probably the most significant factor.

To believe than mankind has any meaningful influence, whether positive or negative, is the absolute height of human arrogance and conceit.

To believe that the proponents of man-made global warming have your, or anyone else other than their own, best interest at heart is not only foolish, but dangerous.

Why? Because they know it is unprovable either way, and they can make money and exert influence and control over the people by their fear-mongering.

You may be amused, however, if you were serious, you would do more research and not take a few examples of what a certain group of scientists who have a vested interest in proving their hypothesis report, thereby validating your own belief, and look at the counter-point evidence. In other words, look at both sides before you presume to know how someone 'feels'.

 

[MilkyWay]

Even if you don't believe or interpret the science one way or another, there are socio economic reasons to reduce emissions and increase efficiency. Air pollution itself is a major health concern in some cities.

What i read is that we are fucking up the natural carbon cycle and that's our problem. What i don't know is how much extra trapped carbon needs to be in the atmosphere for it to be a problem over and above the natural cycle? If we are fucking up the cycle then that means sea pollution and urbanisation is as big a problem as air pollution.