Global Warming & Climate Change Discussion

[FordGT90Concept]

Shock absorbers mitigate earthquakes.
Waterproofing and backup systems mitigate excessive water.
Fast breeder reactors can't meltdown.

When was the last nuclear incident in france?

If memory serves, a very minor incident occurred decades ago. No radiation leaked to the atmosphere (much like Three Mile Island).

Edit: Yup, 1993 at Cadarache. It was caused by a sodium explosion while they were dismantling a reactor.

There was also an incident at the facility in 2009 caused by plutonium dust accumulating in glove boxes. Both incidents were related to experimental technology, not mainstream power production reactors. Just looking at those, no incidents in France since the at least the 80s as far as I can tell.

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

Shock absorbers mitigate earthquakes.
Waterproofing and backup systems mitigate excessive water.
Fast breeder reactors can't meltdown.

It didnt help in Fukoyama.

Politicians decide which fuels we burn. ..........and they are liars. Im not trying to politicize this but its true.


If we all try and do a bit..........something.......simple shit like recycling, turning the heat down and "put a jumper on" like my mother used to say when there were electricity blackouts in the 70's.

Do we want to leave this shit for our kids to pick up?

Tidal/ solar energy is the way to go. youtube it, there are some good projects out there.

 

[RCoon]

the earthquake or tsunami fucks it up.

Actually, the incompetence of the board caused the issue with tsunami braking the whole place. The guy who designed it recommended a much higher sea wall for the site. The guys who wanted to save money refused, built a much shorter one, and that bloody stupid human greed incident made the situation far worse than it should have been. If they had, in the first place, made the wall at a height that was originally recommended, the damage would have been far far more limited.

Tidal/ solar energy is the way to go.

Gravity is the best form of renewable energy. Tidal messes up the jetstreams, and solar is extremely expensive and requires real estate. That and old people don't like the look of solar panels, so they refuse them despite the fact they can get them for free and makes their electricity bill cheaper.

Thorium reactors are pretty blood perfect. They don't melt down. The only reactors that melt down are the ones that are build by incompetent shortcutting tools, or the ones that were designed 60 years ago. The only reason there's a great bloody crack in one of the walls in Britains oldest reactor, is because it was supposed to be decommissioned YEARS ago. Unfortunately the hippies didn't want a reactor, and Britain can't afford to lose the energy production, so they're running it into the ground while they get the hippies off their back, or fracking starts ramping up.

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

Basically it just comes down to where you put the things... Obviously there is an inherently higher risk if you are on a faultline, and especially on a tsunami affected coast. These are avoidable factors, and Frace is a great place for nuclear power generation because it lacks many environmental dangers that exist elsewhere.

As for human greed, I don't think we would be as reliant on hydrocarbon fuels if it wasn't for political lobbying. In fact basically every social problem of the modern world can be traced back to greed in one way or another

 

[vega22]

too many things point to it (global warming) happening for it to be fake imo.

how much impact our actions have on it? well i am open to debating that if anyone wants to. i mean our records only show what we know is a tiny amount of data on the temps of the globe so any real predictions made from such limited data are just as limited.

i voted, Leaning towards no, but not really sure, because while i doubt the data has been faked it would not shock me with "our" media.

i mean is there really a spoon?

 

[FordGT90Concept]

It didnt help in Fukoyama.

RCoon got it. It was humans to blame, not the concept of fission power or even nature. Nature just gave it the shove necessary to push it over the edge.

Tidal/ solar energy is the way to go. youtube it, there are some good projects out there.

RCoon got that one too. Also consider power transmission losses and where tidal power is even an option. Let's also not forget the sun only shines less than 50% of the time (cloud cover/seasons), only four hours give or take is at peak production, and including batteries in any solar system throws costs off the charts.

Basically it just comes down to where you put the things... Obviously there is an inherently higher risk if you are on a faultline, and especially on a tsunami affected coast. These are avoidable factors, and Frace is a great place for nuclear power generation because it lacks many environmental dangers that exist elsewhere.

California has a lot of nuclear power plants and none of them melted down yet. Granted, they were built 30 years ago and don't have adequate protection from tremors...

As for human greed, I don't think we would be as reliant on hydrocarbon fuels if it wasn't for political lobbying. In fact basically every social problem of the modern world can be traced back to greed in one way or another

Right you are. It was the oil and coal lobbies that got the moratorium on nuclear power put in place.

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

Solar is not and will never be a viable power source for a global scale, the storage requirements would make it far too inefficient.

It is ok for local remote requirements, the observatory my father works at (ALMA) for example, the local conditions make solar power viable for daytime use, and the relatively constant and predictable power use makes creating a power storage system, wheter electric or mechanical (water pumping) relatively viable due to the limited need for large margins.

Except because of reasons they still use diesel generators, despite the fact that the fuel costs would be higher than the installation and maintainance costs of a solar (with or without storage system) after under a decade of operation...

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

Correct.
There are systems like the Dinorwig power station again in Wales, which have the capacity to use a renewable source of fuel and to supply it when required.

It uses cheap electricity to pump water up a mountain, when power is needed the water pours through a hydroelectric turbine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station

Energy storage is a massive problem. Nature endowed us with massive reserves.....stored.

Theres no quick fix or easy solution.
If it took us 200 years to f*** it up it might take another 200 to sort it out.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Except because of reasons they still use diesel generators, despite the fact that the fuel costs would be higher than the installation and maintainance costs of a solar (with or without storage system) after under a decade of operation...

Diesel runs at night and there's really no grid they could plug in to. XD

Correct.
There are systems like the Dinorwig power station again in Wales, which have the capacity to use a renewable source of fuel and to supply it when required.

It uses cheap electricity to pump water up a mountain, when power is needed the water pours through a hydroelectric turbine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station

Energy storage is a massive problem. Nature endowed us with massive reserves.....stored.

Never heard of that before, neato. It was effectively a nuclear battery for storing excess power at night for peak load during the day. They could have fewer nuclear facilities and get the same output by increasing efficiency. Quite brilliant albeit a very costly project.

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

Never heard of that before, neato. It was effectively a nuclear battery for storing excess power at night for peak load during the day. They could have fewer nuclear facilities and get the same output by increasing efficiency. Quite brilliant albeit a very costly project.

I was working at a new gas power plant down the road from here it provides twice as much electricity than Wales needs.


http://www.rwe.com/web/cms/en/1628694/rwe-npower/about-us/our-businesses/power-generation/pembroke/

The liquified natural gas comes from Oman in the Gulf. Apparently very energy efficient. There are 5 massive jet engines inside that building.

We werent allowed to take photos so if any body wants to see them give me a shout..

 

[metalslaw]

Ok, even though this post will take this topic a little 'off-topic'. In the grand scheme of things, I believe it's more alarming than the potential of climate change.

Now, climate change may or may not happen... the science says yes, but the outcome may or may not be catastrophic. I don't know. But the following quoted post I believe will regardless.

Anyway, this is a post I made on another forum in regards to the "global debt" crisis, but i'll requote it here in it's entirety. The start references how the monetary system is nearing a breaking point(s) (GFC mark 2/3/4/5etc) at some time within the next decade or 2.

"It's a pyramid scheme built around the consumption of non-renewable resources. (i.e. a "fractional reserve banking system" powered by "oil, coal, and gas")

What could go wrong?...

Seriously though. Even with a concerted push to renewable resources, we will still see the system collapse at some point in the near future (within about 10-20 years).

I'm talking countries going 'broke', stock markets crashing beyond repair, and most companies closing down. Followed by mass unemployment, civil unrest, hyper inflation, wars, famines, etc.

We in australia will actually fair quite well compared to other countries. We still have stacks of uranium and coal which we can use to buy some of the remaining oil (in the future). We also have a very small population (by comparison to most other countries), a quite decent sized farmable landmass, and a healthy economy. Plus we aren't gun crazy like the US.

Some countries are going to suffer from massive famines that will cull the population by billions within 1 or 2 decades (at that breaking point)...

Anyway, not many ppl think like me, nor think this will happen. I think it's a fantasy to think it won't, unfortunately.

Here's something to think about though.

Sitting in front of your computer, just have a look around at alllllllll that plastic you can see. Literally, it's friggen used in almost everything!

And plastic is made from oil (even if it's only a few percent of a barrel of oil. And at some point... it will run out... no if's no buts.

Sure we can 'grow' some oil. But at the rate we are using it, we won't even come within a percent or 2 of what we are using atm.

The fact is, we barely have 15 years worth of oil left in the world. We simply won't have enough to power our consumer based society in the future beyond that point."


And while i'm adding some food for thought, I rewatched a good vid about 'growth'. It's by a mathematician in the US, just talking about 'growth'... (and yep, the title doesn't reflect the actual video... It's just good old facts and figures.

Thoughts?

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

Thoughts?

Yep. Bollocks.

Sounds like a politician to me. Baffle them with bullshit.......i've been doing it for years.


Shame he doesnt offer any solutions.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I was working at a new gas power plant down the road from here it provides twice as much electricity than Wales needs.


http://www.rwe.com/web/cms/en/1628694/rwe-npower/about-us/our-businesses/power-generation/pembroke/

The liquified natural gas comes from Oman in the Gulf. Apparently very energy efficient. There are 5 massive jet engines inside that building.

We werent allowed to take photos so if any body wants to see them give me a shout..

The problem with natural gas is it converts CH4 into CO2. Yes, it is cleaner than coal but still dirty.

I never realized they could produce 400 MW. Most nuclear reactors are 250-500. Bet their fuel consumption is ridiculous.

 

[rtwjunkie]

I didn't realize there was actually a large amount of climate change deniers until I read this thread. Both the ignorance and the level of political influence on the population is staggering!

By the way, I needed to further respond. Just your phrasing is an indicator you are one of the fanatics that have been led by politicians who have their own agenda is staggering. An equal amount of scientists on each side have their figures to support whether global warming is accelerated or not by humans. It's unprovable. Perhaps a more intelligent response is needed by all, as the whiteboard video shows. We need to change the debate and fanaticism of both sides from whether humans accelerated it to: What can we do to make things better in case the climate does go to shit.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I wouldn't go that far...

Also, the wonderingmind42's video wasn't about "making things better." That was my counter argument (plan C, not his A or B). Wonderingmind42's video served two purposes: 1) sell a book and 2) convince people it's worth spending trillions on...something...to prevent an alleged "catastrophe."

 

[rtwjunkie]

I wouldn't go that far...

Also, his video wasn't about "making things better." That was my counter argument. His video served two purposes: 1) sell a book and 2) convince people it's worth spending trillions on...something...to prevent an alleged "catastrophe."

That certainly was his purpose, but most of it makes sense. It's about coming to your own learned conclusion, not spouting out what a news media reporter said, or what a politician endorses. Intelligent minds, i would expect to be able to stop debating the wrong thing, which is what the world is currently doing. And he did after all, urge people to investigate and read, and make their own conclusions.

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

The problem with natural gas is it converts CH4 into CO2. Yes, it is cleaner than coal but still dirty.

I never realized they could produce 400 MW. Most nuclear reactors are 250-500. Bet their fuel consumption is ridiculous.

I never saw what went on in the stacks or heard anything about it but i would think the majority of the carbon is captured somehow. The gas comes on massive ships with pressurised orbs inside, its supercooled and under pressure. Apparently if one of these ships blew up there would be quite a large bang

I wouldn't go that far...

Also, his video wasn't about "making things better." That was my counter argument. His video served two purposes: 1) sell a book and 2) convince people it's worth spending trillions on...something...to prevent an alleged "catastrophe."

I know.. a bit flippant, but its easy to spread doom and gloom, especially if you are making money out of it, i watched that vid a while ago and yes facts and figures are great, if he has inspired people to make a difference good, but he offers no solutions.

Would the Victorians have burnt less fossil fuels if they knew the consequence?
Fossil fuels were THE main driver of the industrial revolution.

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

I have to agree, the fact that oil will run out is or should be a major concern is not related to climate change, rather the economic effects. Even though i am heavily opposed to the idea of human caused climate, I am an even bigger advocate for alternative energy sources, but it is a complex point of view to have, one that requires a relatively in depth understanding of fuels, industrial processes, and chemistry, and sadly the large portion of the public doesnt invest the time into informing themselves about such matters, and by doing so place themselves at the mercy of politicians and the media...

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Would the Victorians have burnt less fossil fuels if they knew the consequence?

They did know the consequences: see all of the fires that took out huge swaths of cities. That was better than the alternative of being cold and doing back-breaking labor.


This was on the end of my last post but I made the edit too late so sticking it here:
Come to think of it, I don't think anyone actually explained to me what the environmentalists were going to do to prevent that "catastrophe" other than the dead horse arguments of solar and wind? Nuclear takes care of 60% and about 30% comes from transportation. It's kind of funny that those electric cars they love so much are made from lightweight carbon materials such as plastic and carbon fiber--both of which are oil products. So you can't even make your super-duper efficient electric car without first getting your hands on copious amounts of oil.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Would the Victorians have burnt less fossil fuels if they knew the consequence?
Fossil fuels were THE main driver of the industrial revolution.

You're correct. In fact, we would have nothing now, and you and I would not be able to converse like this accross the big pond were it not for the discovery and use of fossil fuels. Even the side that believes humans are the cause of global warming (which btw, denies all the Earth's history of heating and cooling over and over) would not want to give up all the modern technological things that are parts of our life, which was why I said a few pages back my reference to living like the Amish in the U.S. do.

EDIT: @FordGT90Concept: Just above this you pointed out my worst pet peeve which I talked about a bit earlier. That pet peeve is duplicity. Your hybrid car is an excellent example!

 

[FordGT90Concept]

PVC jacket on cables is made from oil...


Relevant:

 

[W1zzard]

I have to agree, the fact that oil will run out

It won't run out anytime soon (unconventional oil), and you can make oil from coal for which there are even more reserves (over 100 years with current known proved recoverable at current use, 250 years for US with US owned reserves, 2007ish data)

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

I dont understand why people 'hate' fossil fuels, the only reason I can think of is the media. It is completely irrational, modern society is how it is because of fossil fuels, we are now at a point where we can (and should) move on to the next step. And guess what, in 100 odd years we will have to replace that. There is nothing wrong with that, that is exactly how everything on earth works. It evolves, it changes depending on the necesities.

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

It won't run out anytime soon, and you can make oil from coal for which there are even more reserves

You can make oil from plants

 

[CAPSLOCKSTUCK]

They did know the consequences: see all of the fires that took out huge swaths of cities. That was better than the alternative of being cold and doing back-breaking labor.

Different period in history, the industrial revolution started about 150 years after the Great Fire of London. If this is what you speak

We would ALL still be doing back breaking labour if steam power hadnt helped us along the way.


My friends across the pond will probably never heard of Fred Dibnah....find 30 minutes for this guy.