Intel's Next-Gen Desktop Platform Intros Socket LGA1851, "Meteor Lake-S" to Feature 6P+16E Core Counts

[Pepamami]

Especially when such myth is not honored - and hastily reconsidered at the very last minute because the competition just butchered their value proposition entirely. I will never forgive or forget AMD's treatment of X370 buyers.

But wait. You still can use 5xxx Ryzen on old X370 motherboard, and a lot of people buying 5800X3D and 5700X coz of this.

The myth was powered not my AMD, but by Intel, who was doing meaningless changing between sockets 1151, 1151v2 and 1200 with ZERO reasons for it, some people even managed to run 1151v2 cpus on 1151 socket with some bios tricks.

 

[Wirko]

some people even managed to run 1151v2 cpus on 1151 socket with some bios tricks.

Some hardware modifications are necessary too. If anyone wants to do that, look no further, TPU is the best place. It's tempting for me too, I'd undertake the HW mods but am still too afraid of touching that thing called BIOS.

Adventure: Running 8/9th gen Coffee Lake CPUs on Z170 motherboard (ASUS Maximus VIII Ranger)

Hello everyone, I am writing this to share about my adventure making Coffee Lake CPUs work on Z170 motherboard. My secondary system as on specs has an ASUS Maximus VIII Ranger (Z170) that officially supports up to 7th gen CPUs (7700K). I have been using an i5 7600K @4.9 GHz since March 2017. As...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[Dr. Dro]

But wait. You still can use 5xxx Ryzen on old X370 motherboard, and a lot of people buying 5800X3D and 5700X coz of this.

The myth was powered not my AMD, but by Intel, who was doing meaningless changing between sockets 1151, 1151v2 and 1200 with ZERO reasons for it, some people even managed to run 1151v2 cpus on 1151 socket with some bios tricks.

Dude did you just ignore the context entirely and then ignored my subsequent posts about it? 300 series support was denied, they excused themselves with a lie and it only came after Alder Lake. AMD lied. There's no way around that. Did you forget they also intended to axe the 400 series chipsets and didn't only because of raw fury and backlash from reddit?

 

[Minxie]

Enough said, specially from AMDUnboxed.

You still believe they're AMD fanboys? Really? After they've lampooned AMD for some garbage products time and time again?

Just the sort of people I'd expect from this forum I guess

 

[mplayerMuPDF]

Why would you negatively criticise something that is entirely positive? I think whoever doesnt like ecores is losing the plot - you must have a fundamental misunderstanding on why they even exist

A lot of people seem to have a hardwired connection in their brain between "E/efficiency core" and "1.0-1.5 GHz Cortex A53" -> "useless" and so they pretend like E cores are just dead silicon and P cores are all that matters. When in reality an E core is more powerful than a Haswell core. There is a massive gap between outdated ARM little cores and Intel's E cores. People really need to comprehend that.

 

[Pepamami]

Did you forget they also intended to axe the 400 series chipsets and didn't only because of raw fury and backlash from reddit?

thats was my point. U can press amd to du something or change something, but u cant do the same with Intel. Coz at the end amd gave up and added support for Zen3. While Intel, instead of not using new 1200 meaningless socket, used it anyway, to make people upset and create "myths" around amd, who was starting to add zen3 support to older chipsets coz of dramma.

Now Intel is trying to do the same with stinky E-cores, were "E" stands for "Efficiency" only for Intel, but Not for consumer.

 

[Dr. Dro]

thats was my point. U can press amd to du something or change something, but u cant do the same with Intel. Coz at the end amd gave up and added support for Zen3. While Intel, instead of not using new 1200 meaningless socket, used it anyway, to make people upset and create "myths" around amd, who was starting to add zen3 support to older chipsets coz of dramma.

Now Intel is trying to do the same with stinky E-cores, were "E" stands for "Efficiency" only for Intel, but Not for consumer.

There is no myth, just blind refusal to admit that AMD is a corporation with financial interests and not your indie friendly little guy in the industry. When the X570 chipset came out, the X470 boards were barely a year old. They couldn't do it without looking like... inappropriate words for a forum.

AMD didn't cave in due to pressure, they literally just went backwards on an elaborate lie they had convinced even the tech media of (because the 16 MB BIOS was never a problem, mind you - motherboards such as the one I had, the Crosshair VI Hero and its Extreme sibling) had something like half of the BIOS padded out with space to spare, and they never lost a single function throughout all of this) just because Alder Lake offered people a much better deal that they had priced themselves out of market. Even more proof of it is that these same motherboards are now running Zen 3 and 3D chips happily and without any other issue that their 400 and 500 series equivalents don't have as well. In fact, you do realize that the X370 and the X470 are 1:1 identical, and the B550 is also based on the same Promontory chip, right?

The Core i5-12400F went toe-to-toe with Ryzen 5 5600X at half the price, that is why AMD relented on their refusal to keep their forwards-compatibility promise as if they hadn't been implying the boards weren't worthy for nearly a year in the interim. It wasn't because they were pressured or because they're nice. Ironically, the same reasoning tech media picked up for not condemning AMD on their decision to cut the X370 chipset off is that anyone who's buying such a new processor should buy a new motherboard too, because that's the precedent that Intel had set.

No matter how you want to spin this on Intel, ultimately they are not in the wrong for refusing to make promises of forwards compatibility and long-lived sockets, Intel didn't hold AMD at gunpoint to make that claim - which I agree that from a consumer and environmental standpoint is excellent but from a business standpoint, no one was happy, and they sure let us know about it. It more than likely also has something to do with the initial batch of AM5 motherboards being priced to the moon, the same promise was made again for the AM5 socket but this time they sure are charging for that privilege.

 

[birdie]

You still believe they're AMD fanboys? Really? After they've lampooned AMD for some garbage products time and time again?

Just the sort of people I'd expect from this forum I guess

I've seen it first on r/AMD, dude. I've pledged alliance to zero brands in my entire life, fanboyism is stupid and dangerous. I choose products.

As for AMDUnboxed, they have been vocally pro-AMD, anti-Intel/anti-NVIDIA for at least five years now. It's rare to see/hear them praise anything made by these two companies while they turn a blind eye to anything unsightly which AMD does. Their last DLSS 3.0 video? "The tech is total crap". What unbiased people say? It's really great and the increased latency is very hard to notice.

What's funny is how they panned DLSS 2.0 first but then once FSR 2.0 was released, AMDUnboxed suddenly stopped being overly critical of DLSS 2.0. When AMD releases FSR 3.0 somewhere in the end of 2023 (they've just started working on it because DLSS 3.0 caught them by surprise), I'm sure DLSS 3.0 will be reconsidered.

Most of their polls on Twitter/YouTube in terms of choosing something? Any AMD product over anything made by Intel/NVIDIA by the widest possible margin.

You think I'm fanboyish and parrot something because I'm anti-AMD? Well, f* it, I have Ryzen 7 5800X in my case. My next GPU will be made by AMD because NVIDIA has seemingly lost their mind with the GTX 40 series pricing and power consumption. I'm not buying RTX 4060 Ti at ~220W for ~$450. Jensen should go f- himself if he thinks I have any brand loyalty or I care about DLSS 3.0. I care about my wallet and my PC power consumption.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I've seen it first on r/AMD, dude. I've pledged alliance to zero brands in my entire life, fanboyism is stupid and dangerous. I choose products.

As for AMDUnboxed, they have been vocally pro-AMD, anti-Intel/anti-NVIDIA for at least five years now. It's rare to see/hear them praise anything made by these two companies while they turn a blind eye to anything unsightly which AMD does. Their last DLSS 3.0 video? "The tech is total crap". What unbiased people say? It's really great and the increased latency is very hard to notice.

What's funny is how they panned DLSS 2.0 first but then once FSR 2.0 was released, AMDUnboxed suddenly stopped being overly critical of DLSS 2.0. When AMD releases FSR 3.0 somewhere in the end of 2023 (they've just started working on it because DLSS 3.0 caught them by surprise), I'm sure DLSS 3.0 will be reconsidered.

Most of their polls on Twitter/YouTube in terms of choosing something? Any AMD product over anything made by Intel/NVIDIA by the widest possible margin.

You think I'm fanboyish and parrot something because I'm anti-AMD? Well, f* it, I have Ryzen 7 5800X in my case. My next GPU will be made by AMD because NVIDIA has seemingly lost their mind with the GTX 40 series pricing and power consumption. I'm not buying RTX 4060 Ti at ~220W for ~$450. Jensen should go f- himself if he thinks I have any brand loyalty or I care about DLSS 3.0. I care about my wallet and my PC power consumption.

Yeah, i'm mostly a happy camper with my 5950X as well, but I am quite unwilling to look the other way for the real problems that it has, and for AMD's corporate interests going on top of my own. If they fix the EDC bug introduced by the 5800X3D's amp limit kicking in on every other processor model, I will have a performant and stable system.

It will take some time for me to have money for a new graphics card (I've decided to prioritize a few other things in the interim), but I am also heavily leaning towards the 7900 XTX right now. I could get it without having to sell my 3090, and that's excellent for me. If my guesses of 90 to 110%+ of 4090's performance at 70% of the power come around, this GPU will be a champion to rival Evergreen (the DX11 pioneer), if they manage to keep on top of their driver game. Which I am fully confident in right now, the Radeon team rocks.

 

[Pepamami]

No matter how you want to spin this on Intel

We have only 2 companies, who makes X86 cpu. When people got super sick from Intel behavior, and amd finally released some "normal" product (first Ryzen), these people switched to amd and start praising it and making myths, not coz they like amd, coz they dont like intel more than amd, and they was not able to "switch" for a log time.
I dont like amd myself, and new AM5 socket is garbage in many ways. But I switched to zen3, coz Intel is worse (Yesterday I was not able to download a basic driver for Z87 chipset, not even archive). And this is sad, since we have only 2 x86 cpus vendors on market.
Also I must admit, that their ryzen 2600 was a big life saver for me in 2018, so I still have warm feelings for amd, for now... and reading news about Intel, I think, I will keep that way. (this is why some people defend amd, despite amd probably no better than intel)

In short: some people likes amd because of intel. And ofc amd will try to use that, by covering their "we did it for money" with "we did it for u, consumers", and playing "consumer friendlier than intel" game.

 

[ZetZet]

This is why I don’t get the whole Alder Lake / Rocket Lake DDR4 and DDR5 argument. If you buy a DDR4 version today, you will still have to upgrade motherboard, RAM and CPU if you want to upgrade to Meteor Lake in 2024.

Why would you even upgrade that often. That's the real question.

 

[ir_cow]

I feel your pain brother. And X399 still doesn't have it the worst. You have one generation of upgrades if you got the original 1xxx Threadripper, but the TRX40 guys were just cast aside and ignored without a single generational upgrade. All in all, a happy big bunch of soon-to-be Intel customers

Is everybody forgetting both those sockets had two generations of CPUs?

 

[Dr. Dro]

Is everybody forgetting both those sockets had two generations of CPUs?

No, the TRX40 platform didn't, the Threadripper Pro CPUs use a different socket and chipset due to the 8-channel memory support.

The guys that bought Zen 2 Threadrippers received no generational upgrades as Zen 3 for TRX4 was canceled so AMD could sell them to the server channel instead.

 

[ACE76]

This is why I don’t get the whole Alder Lake / Rocket Lake DDR4 and DDR5 argument. If you buy a DDR4 version today, you will still have to upgrade motherboard, RAM and CPU if you want to upgrade to Meteor Lake in 2024.

If you already had DDR4 memory, you could have continued using it for Alder Lake/Rocket Lake..so your saving regardless.

We have only 2 companies, who makes X86 cpu. When people got super sick from Intel behavior, and amd finally released some "normal" product (first Ryzen), these people switched to amd and start praising it and making myths, not coz they like amd, coz they dont like intel more than amd, and they was not able to "switch" for a log time.
I dont like amd myself, and new AM5 socket is garbage in many ways. But I switched to zen3, coz Intel is worse (Yesterday I was not able to download a basic driver for Z87 chipset, not even archive). And this is sad, since we have only 2 x86 cpus vendors on market.
Also I must admit, that their ryzen 2600 was a big life saver for me in 2018, so I still have warm feelings for amd, for now... and reading news about Intel, I think, I will keep that way. (this is why some people defend amd, despite amd probably no better than intel)

In short: some people likes amd because of intel. And ofc amd will try to use that, by covering their "we did it for money" with "we did it for u, consumers", and playing "consumer friendlier than intel" game.

That is the dumbest statement ever made on AMD or AM4. AM4 dominated Intel for like 3+ years. It was better and will always be better than anything Intel released. AM5 is better than Rocket Lake too and the gaming hammer is coming down in a few months. I pity anyone who went and spent thousands on a Rocket Lake PC that will be obsolete very soon

 

[Dr. Dro]

It was better and will always be better than anything Intel released.

Provided you didn't want the forwards compatibility they promised at the time, or that they fix the EDC bug causing throttling with PBO on all CPUs because the amperage lock of the 5800X3D is applying to every other processor, it's "nice"

I won't give laurels to this platform, it was extremely buggy throughout its entire service life due to the poor quality of the AGESA code, and even its latest (and potentially last) release basically butchers high end CPU performance due to the aforementioned bug.

 

[ir_cow]

No, the TRX40 platform didn't, the Threadripper Pro CPUs use a different socket and chipset due to the 8-channel memory support.

The guys that bought Zen 2 Threadrippers received no generational upgrades as Zen 3 for TRX4 was canceled so AMD could sell them to the server channel instead.

TPU has it wrong about the Zen3 it seems. https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/ryzen-threadripper-5990x.c2915

Alright, so AMD did pull a Intel hahaah

 

[Dr. Dro]

TPU has it wrong about the Zen3 it seems. https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/ryzen-threadripper-5990x.c2915

Alright, so AMD did pull a Intel hahaah

Yeah, to the best of my knowledge this processor actually went through all engineering stages and finalized, even some late stage ES units made into the hands of board partners and their XOC guys but AMD never released it to market citing low demand, the truth is that the server market was booming particularly well during the lockdowns and they decided to use all available supply in high margin Milan Epyc processors instead.

I don't think Zen 3 for TRX40 will ever release at this point considered mainstream socket Zen 4 already came out, it'd be a terrible value proposition.

 

[N3M3515]

The platform/socket longevity as an advantage is a myth AMD fans have created. Let's keep it this way.

What are you smoking?
I upgraded from a r5 2400g and 8gb ram in 2018 to a r9 5900x and 32 gb ram in 2021. wtf bro? you have lost objectivity, before i used to see much more compeling posts from you, don't know if i am talking about somebody else.

 

[mplayerMuPDF]

Provided you didn't want the forwards compatibility they promised at the time, or that they fix the EDC bug causing throttling with PBO on all CPUs because the amperage lock of the 5800X3D is applying to every other processor, it's "nice"

I won't give laurels to this platform, it was extremely buggy throughout its entire service life due to the poor quality of the AGESA code, and even its latest (and potentially last) release basically butchers high end CPU performance due to the aforementioned bug.

Not just the AGESA but also ASMedia's garbage tier USB implementation.

 

[birdie]

What are you smoking?
I upgraded from a r5 2400g and 8gb ram in 2018 to a r9 5900x and 32 gb ram in 2021. wtf bro? you have lost objectivity, before i used to see much more compeling posts from you, don't know if i am talking about somebody else.

Fewer than 0.5% of PC owners upgrade CPUs. Again, it's a myth. I consider myself a hardcore tech-enthusiast and I've done it once over the past 30 years (3700X->5800X). A single generational upgrade which is also possible for Intel users. It's easier and completely safe to replace the entire system than to upgrade your CPU, a process during which you can easily destroy your old CPU or motherboard. It's not a GPU which is "remove and insert a new one". I've not given up on being cold-blooded, factual, logical and rational. Your anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, sorry. I mean you are in a tiny minority.

PS "What are you smoking?" is an insult.

Link? the source to back this up.

There is over a billion x86 PCs in the world, I'm not even counting laptops. Do your napkin math and even my 0.5% estimate will suddenly look too generous. AMD fans of course have their own world view, I'll give you that.

?
If you pay a company to build your entire PC thus easier and safe as you mentioned, you can ask the company to replace your CPU and it will be also cheaper.
Otherwise you have to put everything together so might as well replace only CPU.


That it a bullshit bro.

Bullshit if you believe people care about [minimal] CPU [performance] upgrades, follow CPU or motherboard generations, or even read tech news websites or CPU reviews. Absolute most go to the store and buy a prebuilt PC. Organizations who own literally hundreds of millions of PCs? Those serve until they die or become unusable.

It makes sense to realize that your "superior" knowledge of PC components is BS in the grand scheme of things but I didn't expect anything else from devoted AMD fans.

Meh......you did not quote a source.
Anyway obviously when intel just released 3% performance increaces per generation everyone just changed the whole thing (i went from a core 2 duo 7200 to a i5 2500k and then for 6 generations intel did nothing so i kept my cpu.). But since ryzen that has changed, you could perfectly buy a first gen like i did and then upgrade big way to a latest gen top end. I give you that only peole who know how to change a cpu and upgrade bios would do that, one could also ask for help from a person who knows.

First, install a spell checker, then for sources, find the ones which talk about Windows 10 having over 1 billion installations and oh boy people continued to run other versions of Windows at the time when Microsoft announced the said number of W10 PCs.

I won't argue with you any more. I don't ****ing care about purely anecdotal evidence and people who believe in myths, perpetuate them and lie through their teeth saying the entire world revolves around CPU upgrades. Actually I'll go ahead and BL both of you as well. I'm not ****ing crazy, that lame attempt to insult me "? " is not funny. Too tired of fanatics no matter what they pray to. Your religion must be AMD, cool. It instantly makes you a lesser man because rational, truly intelligent people can't have idols. That goes against intelligence. No one is infallible. Everyone and everything needs to prove its worth. Being a fan of a company? That can be considered retarded. Absolute most companies care about their shareholders a lot more than about their customers. Goodbye.

AFAIK there have been polls for CPU upgrades even here among enthusiasts on TPU forums with quite appalling for CPU upgrade fans numbers. You can run them again and see your beliefs dispelled.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Not just the AGESA but also ASMedia's garbage tier USB implementation.

The USB problem was not on ASMedia, it was on AMD. It was fixed with the AGESA v2 1.2.0.2 update and in fact - it also crashed external USB controllers, in addition to the USB dropouts my EVGA sound card (which uses a custom USB bridge) also stopped functioning. It was both hilarious and sad.

Now if they fix the EDC bug... sounding like a broken record about it already, I think AM4 can finally be called "done and polished". Only took 'em more than half a decade, when and if they fix it...

 

[N3M3515]

Fewer than 0.5% of PC owners upgrade CPUs. Again, it's a myth

Link? the source to back this up.

 

[ratirt]

It's easier and completely safe to replace the entire system than to upgrade your CPU

?
If you pay a company to build your entire PC thus easier and safe as you mentioned, you can ask the company to replace your CPU and it will be also cheaper.
Otherwise you have to put everything together so might as well replace only CPU.

Fewer than 0.5% of PC owners upgrade CPUs

That it a bullshit bro.

 

[N3M3515]

There is over a billion x86 PCs in the world, I'm not even counting laptops. Do your napkin math and even my 0.5% estimate will suddenly look too generous. AMD fans of course have their own world view, I'll give you that.

Bullshit if you believe people care about [minimal] CPU [performance] upgrades, follow CPU or motherboard generations, or even read tech news websites or CPU reviews. Absolute most go to the store and buy a prebuilt PC. Organizations who own literally hundreds of millions of PCs? Those serve until they die or become unusable.

It makes sense to realize that your "superior" knowledge of PC components is BS in the grand scheme of things but I didn't expect anything else from devoted AMD fans.

Meh......you did not quote a source.
Anyway obviously when intel just released 3% performance increaces per generation everyone just changed the whole thing (i went from a core 2 duo 7200 to a i5 2500k and then for 6 generations intel did nothing so i kept my cpu.). But since ryzen that has changed, you could perfectly buy a first gen like i did and then upgrade big way to a latest gen top end. I give you that only peole who know how to change a cpu and upgrade bios would do that, one could also ask for help from a person who knows.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Fewer than 0.5% of PC owners upgrade CPUs. Again, it's a myth. I consider myself a hardcore tech-enthusiast and I've done it once over the past 30 years (3700X->5800X). A single generational upgrade which is also possible for Intel users. It's easier and completely safe to replace the entire system than to upgrade your CPU, a process during which you can easily destroy your old CPU or motherboard. It's not a GPU which is "remove and insert a new one". I've not given up on being cold-blooded, factual, logical and rational. Your anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, sorry. I mean you are in a tiny minority.

Your Opinion is worth more than his, why.

I know five people who updated Am4 CPU on same mobo and I did it three times so I win, more anecdotal data points!? .

What you don't see worth in, others do.

And IMHO only the bluest of noses continually pulls out the AMD fan card, you should realise that instantly labels you a blue nose in some eye's.
And is a weak as shit argument point deserving derision.