Intel's Silver Lining is $8.5 Billion CHIPS Act Funding, Possibly by the End of the Year

[phanbuey]

Last I checked, none or maybe very little of the chips used are build in new advanced process.

Hell, Intel doesnt have crap right now, so whatever is that the Gov is using, I'm pretty sure that the others can either match or use some of that sweet free Gov money to upgrade.

The thing is, once again, everyone making excuses for poor ol'Intel.

They should be allowed to die and the other american companies to pick the necessary parts (in this case, eng and fabs and patents) from Intel carcass.

You mean like we let AMD(Glofo) and Texas instruments flounder? they really came back (not). That tactic sounds really cool but it doesn't actually work when the competition has unlimited money that they're willing to invest. I get what you're saying, and I totally appreciate the sentiment -- but that only works in a true free/fair market. Semiconductors are not a fair market.

 

[Neo_Morpheus]

You mean like we let AMD(Glofo) and Texas instruments flounder? they really came back (not). That tactic sounds really cool but it doesn't actually work when the competition has unlimited money that they're willing to invest.


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Did we gave them money like we are giving Intel?
I believe that I mentioned that and to repeat, I havent heard neither of the other companies with foundries in the US of receiving a penny.
So I dont understand your post.

 

[Steevo]

Those foundries are all over 10nm, samsung is shipping 14nm in the USA, with the exception of IBM, but not sure if anyone knows what they're up to. Glofo is shipping 12nm, and TSMC is accused of purposely dragging their feet on the 4nm Arizona fab construction despite getting CHIPS act money, and negotiating for more money as they stall.

Intel 18A (1.8nm) is expected to enter mass production in 2025 - the same time the 4nm TSMC facility will come online.

TSMC Arizona achieves production yields similar to those at its fabs in Taiwan, says report

Fab 21's 4nm chip mass production is due to begin in 2025

www.tomshardware.com

Intels 18a node is a best case scenario measurement, I fully agree it will be twice what TSMC has in production but we are nearing the pointless numbers where power delivery and packaging, ability to stack chips is the only path forward.

Having the chiplet on one side of the silicon with power delivery and cache and the CPU cores on the other side and packaging it will be the next big thing. Stacking more cache on is the next.

 

[phanbuey]

Did we gave them money like we are giving Intel?
I believe that I mentioned that and to repeat, I havent heard neither of the other companies with foundries in the US of receiving a penny.
So I dont understand your post.

Source:

Redirect Notice

They're all getting money -- everyone that manufactures locally. TSMC is getting 6.6 billion for Arizona.

 

[Neo_Morpheus]

View attachment 365054

They're all getting money -- everyone that manufactures locally.

I stand corrected!

 

[Visible Noise]

Did we gave them money like we are giving Intel?
I believe that I mentioned that and to repeat, I havent heard neither of the other companies with foundries in the US of receiving a penny.
So I dont understand your post.

Good selective listening.

 

[Neo_Morpheus]

Good selective listening.

Keep reading...

 

[Wirko]

$8, 500,000,000 will seem like pocket change when Intel starts building 14A fabs (and looking for sponsors, that's beyond doubt now).

 

[cfenton]

Every day another story to Pump Intel ?

The bottom line is their main products aren't competitive anymore. Unless they have another breakthrough like Core in 2006, they're doomed to decline no matter how much money the government bungs at them.

How are they not competitive? They aren't dominant anymore, but their current consumer line up trades blows with AMD and Apple, which are their main competitors.

 

[Daven]

Ahem, AMD has been in the red half the time this century: https://ycharts.com/companies/AMD/net_income_annual
Stuff happens.

But they didn't take any government money or at least no more than usual.

I feel like my post, "Government GIVING money to FAILING companies" isn't being taken as an entire statement. I keep reading other companies get money and AMD has failed at times. Both conditions must be met.

 

[damric]

When they say this is for military, it made me chuckle, as veterans know that almost the entirety of U.S. military electronics use very old nodes because they are more stable and less susceptible to EM warfare. Hell, our naval nuclear plants are using almost all analog circuits.

But that's fine, borrow more money from the future of our kids and grandkids as you run up the debt to feed the wallets of these fat cats. No one will notice.

 

[Scrizz]

But they didn't take any government money or at least no more than usual.

I feel like my post, "Government GIVING money to FAILING companies" isn't being taken as an entire statement. I keep reading other companies get money and AMD has failed at times. Both conditions must be met.

Maybe they should've kept their foundries.
Why would you fund a company that doesn't make anything. They can design all they want. If they can't make/fabricate it due to Geo-political issues, there's no value.
I have no doubt that given the current political climate, if AMD still had fabs, they would be getting their share just like TSMC, Intel, et al.
Technically GloFlo is on the list too, so you could argue that AMD is getting money too.

 

[Why_Me]

Nobody says much about this.

European Commission permits 'first-of-its-kind' microchip manufacturing plant

The European Commission has approved a €5 billion German measure to help European Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (ESMC) build and operate a 'first-of-its-kind' microchip manufacturing plant in Dresden - planning to produce 480,000 silicon wafers annually when it operates at full capacity by...

packagingeurope.com

 

[AusWolf]

Imagine being AMD and having the upper hand over your rival for the first time in 20 years. Then the government steps in and gives them billions while they still have 70%+ market share.

Intel sell chips at below the price they need to develop future fabs (hence the insane losses their fabs have reported). The government is going to foot the bill for it. But mainly Intel will profit from it. For DoD purposes Samsung and TSMC fabs in the US are just as good, if not better.

Yeah, I wonder if that'll change and AMD gets similar support from the US gov once TSMC's Arizona fab opens (which might happen never at this rate, who knows).

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Source:

Redirect Notice

They're all getting money -- everyone that manufactures locally. TSMC is getting 6.6 billion for Arizona.

Ah, so is it manufacturers that get the money, not chip designers?

 

[kondamin]

When they say this is for military, it made me chuckle, as veterans know that almost the entirety of U.S. military electronics use very old nodes because they are more stable and less susceptible to EM warfare. Hell, our naval nuclear plants are using almost all analog circuits.

But that's fine, borrow more money from the future of our kids and grandkids as you run up the debt to feed the wallets of these fat cats. No one will notice.

the stuff that is used in the field is made with older reliable nodes.
how ever much of todays security is done in data centres where they process and store huge amounts of captured video and other data like credit card transactions.
thats where they need the newest and best technology and also where the competition has taken the lead.

they also don’t like it that he competition might have a back door in the nations infrastructure dauhua camera systems huawei routers and transceivers…
all of those things are made on the latest and greatest nodes

which as a domestic player only intel is capable of making.

also keep in mind that these small nodes are very very hard to manufacture.
samsung which basically is half of South Korea struggles with it whiles getting hundreds of billions of won to prop it up.
tsmc that is lucky it’s struggling to advance while at the top while getting infinit money from both intel nvidia and Apple. probably some sweetheart deals from their government to and of-course us chips act billions

 

[64K]

Ah, so is it manufacturers that get the money, not chip designers?

Yes, the whole idea behind the CHIPS Act is to bring chip manufacturing to the US. It's due to the ongoing concern of what might happen if China made a military move against Taiwan. The effect on the West would be immense if Taiwan was taken out of the chip supply chain. How successful this effort will be remains to be seen. Personally, I haven't been comfortable for a long time with so much manufacturing being centralized in that region so I hope it bears fruit.

 

[Vayra86]

How are they not competitive? They aren't dominant anymore, but their current consumer line up trades blows with AMD and Apple, which are their main competitors.

Competitive on a tech forum just applies to whichever company dominates the top benchmark spot. There is always just one competitive company, the rest is pretty much dead. This can change daily, based on the latest news post that appeared.

 

[Wirko]

Ah, so is it manufacturers that get the money, not chip designers?

Don't forget packaging plants. Those are very high tech lately, and very much in short supply.

For example, the technology to press two chips together and make them stick without glue or solder is... well, it sounds almost like cold fusion. But that's what makes 3D V-cache work.

 

[AusWolf]

Competitive on a tech forum just applies to whichever company dominates the top benchmark spot. There is always just one competitive company, the rest is pretty much dead. This can change daily, based on the latest news post that appeared.

"Competitive" means things that sell. Or am I getting it wrong?

 

[Daven]

Ah, so is it manufacturers that get the money, not chip designers?

Yes but if you are also a chip designer, you can put more internal revenue towards chip development and less toward manufacturing because of receiving government handouts. This gives chip designers with fabs an unfair advantage.

 

[bug]

That would be enough to lift everyone in the USA out of poverty.

Priorities..

$8.5bn/333mn=$25.5. Try again.

But they didn't take any government money or at least no more than usual.

I feel like my post, "Government GIVING money to FAILING companies" isn't being taken as an entire statement. I keep reading other companies get money and AMD has failed at times. Both conditions must be met.

Mubdala group practically brought AMD back from the brink of bankruptcy. That's govt money from Abu Dhabi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mubadala_Investment_Company

 

[THANATOS]

Hmm... SMIC, Zhaoxin, Huawei, BYD, and several hundred others would like to challenge that title.

From the above mentioned, which company was a top leading semiconductor manufacturer and processor designer for decades? Not a single one, they are basically doing catchup.
Intel fu**ed up, that's all, but at worst they will go AMD route and will survive easily. The Intel foundries are a bigger problem and a very costly one.

Yeah, China is investing heavily into their semiconductor industry. They would be stupid, If they didn't do that and It's not like they are the only ones investing heavily in this industry.

 

[tfp]

Yes but if you are also a chip designer, you can put more internal revenue towards chip development and less toward manufacturing because of receiving government handouts. This gives chip designers with fabs an unfair advantage.

And you think this because Intel and others are building Fabs that cost less than the amounts of CHIPS fund they are receiving?

While there is no real proof one way or another I don't expect company building fabs right now would be doing as many or as quickly with out the world wide level of government money many of these companies are receiving. And this is on top of the standard allotment that governments in Asia and elsewhere pay out to "stay ahead".

From the above mentioned, which company was a top leading semiconductor manufacturer and processor designer for decades? Not a single one, they are basically doing catchup.
Yeah, China is investing heavily into their semiconductor industry, so what? They would be stupid, If they didn't do that and It's not like they are the only ones doing It.

Right I don't understand the mentality that is being shown here. It's ok if West Taiwan, S Korea, and Taiwan give hand outs but it's not OK for the US or Europe? Maybe it's OK only if Intel doesn't get that money.

 

[THANATOS]

Right I don't understand the mentality that is being shown here. It's ok if West Taiwan, S Korea, and Taiwan give hand outs but it's not OK for the US or Europe? Maybe it's OK only if Intel doesn't get that money.

I think the point is that Intel is in a bad situation or to be more specific Its foundries.
I honestly don't care If US will support It or not, because I am not an American, but I care that EU instead of building It's own semiconductor foundry is paying foreign companies to build their own here.

 

[freeagent]

$8.5bn/333mn=$25.5. Try again.

Are you, and a couple of the other guys saying there is 333m people living in poverty in the USA?

Either need to get real, or learn to read. Poverty to me, means homeless, no food, no internet, no water.

Not money for your computer parts.