Is Microsoft Deliberately Limiting AMD CPU Performance?

[wheresmycar]

Recently came across the below vid... but it seems constant, one issue after the other. FTPM/TPM stuttering, earlier L3 cache latency, core assigning issues, reduced performance in non-admin accounts, branch prediction inefficiencies, etc etc. Although some of these problems may have been ironed out, some users continue to face specific challenges based on their system configurations.

I don't usually bring these types of concerns to light seeing AMD is not claiming the same. But i'm beginning to question something is amiss.

 

[Darkholm]

Late 90s and early 00s, there was a popular term - "Wintel".

So, it is not a strange thing if Intel and MS are again hand in hand.

 

[DemonicRyzen666]

From what i read it they used the same spectre & meltdown patches for both cpus, but amds branch predicors don't work the exact same as intel cpus. So it was completely incompatible with ryzens branch predictor. Its more like someone got lazy & tried to copy paste the patch to another achitechture. It didn't work.

 

[DaemonForce]

I haven't run into any of these issues due to the way I deploy and operate everything in Windows but yes. Also the usual PEBKAC culprits.

 

[dgianstefani]

Seems more likely AMD "the software company" screwed up. If AMD doesn't communicate or even notice issues, then that's on AMD. Intel noticed scheduling issues with Alder Lake and worked on their own and with MS to resolve them within year one, not two generations after. That's called initiative.

But even releasing drivers with working download links is often beyond them so .

 

[Event Horizon]

It's a whole bunch of incompetence, not malice.

 

[Shihab]

That's called initiative.

Or better funding and/or management (and I mention the latter while fighting to keep a straight face)...

I find it amusing that people entertain the idea that MS conspires against AMD, with whom they have business deals worth billions (if not tens of billions) in just one niche.

 

[SL2]

It could be that MS is 100% crap, but that title is clickbait. You have zero evidence that MS is responsible, let alone deliberately doing it.

HUB have already shown that 23H2 installs are a hit and miss for 9000 in terms of performance. Same ISO, even before any updates.

Don't blame MS for AMD's half baked product.

Besides, the branch prediction update was even included in Zen5 laptops, which was launched BEFORE desktop Zen5 CPU's, then AMD somehow got a collective meltdown and forgot all about it with the desktop Zen5 CPU launch.

 

[Lionheart]

It could be who knows, or maybe AMD needs drivers for their CPU's

 

[evernessince]

Seems more likely AMD "the software company" screwed up. If AMD doesn't communicate or even notice issues, then that's on AMD. Intel noticed scheduling issues with Alder Lake and worked on their own and with MS to resolve them within year one, not two generations after. That's called initiative.

But even releasing drivers with working download links is often beyond them so .

Performance was good on windows 10 and then wasn't on windows 11. The implication there is obvious, something Microsoft did to the scheduler between them messed things up.

There are two additional assumptions you are making as well:

1) That AMD didn't communicate and / or notice issues prior to them becoming public. There's a power dynamic that essentially dictates that AMD will never air Microsoft's dirty laundry or issues they have with them unless windows suddenly looses all it's marketshare. AMD needs Microsoft to address their market and would likely not exist for very long if they ticked them off. In addition, given that no one here has access to internal AMD and Microsoft communications it's impossible to say what, if any, communication occurred regarding this issue.

2) That AMD has the control to unscrew whatever Microsoft screwed up. Unless you know exactly how much influence AMD has over Microsoft's scheduler in regards to AMD's own processors, you are making a blind guess as to whether AMD had the capability to remedity the issue. AMD could have known about the issue and communicated it to Microsoft but MS might not havebeen too concerned about responding to the issue in a quick manner until it became public.

On that I defer to Occam's razor, the simplist and least assumptionary answer is likely the correct one.

I find it amusing that people entertain the idea that MS conspires against AMD, with whom they have business deals worth billions (if not tens of billions) in just one niche.

Agreed, until evidence is provided that such an action was taken with malice I'd rather assume incompetence on Microsoft's behalf.

It could be who knows, or maybe AMD needs drivers for their CPU's

Na, the fact that performance was as it should have been in windows 10 indicates that it's just another Microsoft update bungling.

 

[phanbuey]

Microsoft rarely does anything on purpose.

Intel has them on speed dial and has learned over the years what happens if you tune your branch prediction or change around your core without heavily involving them. I wouldn't be surprised if intel engineers help code the thread scheduler.

 

[SL2]

It could be who knows, or maybe AMD needs drivers for their CPU's

That can't be true, as I see no conspiracy theory in your sentence!

If brand X is having a bad day/year, it must be because of some other brand being evil. /s

 

[TheEndIsNear]

I've said this lately. Anti-trust issue. Just like microsoft should be held accountable AGAIN for their browser crap and all the other anti competitive things they do. But these days corporations have all the power to the detriment of everyone else. I don't understand how they can get away with the same stuff they got slapped for 20 years ago

 

[yfn_ratchet]

Deliberation on Microsoft's part has never been a strong point. The endless stream of issues and controversies related to new features of any of their OSes should be proof enough of that. Windows always has a problem at all times, if not multiple. It's just never enough to have people consider Windows unusable, or for switching to Linux to be the more convenient option.

I highly doubt the performance issues related to newer Zen architectures is a conspiracy by Microsoft or particularly bad form on AMD's part, but they're issues all the same and it's on both of them to get it sorted, and quickly.

 

[64K]

I didn't watch the video so maybe it's explained there but I wonder where would be MS motive to bork AMD CPUs and not Intel CPUs? MS manages to derp Windows quite well just by their usual carelessness.

I find it amusing that people entertain the idea that MS conspires against AMD, with whom they have business deals worth billions (if not tens of billions) in just one niche.

Good point.

 

[AusWolf]

One can always just stay on Windows 10. It's got pretty much the same functionality as 11 without all the extra crap. Just saying.

 

[DaemonForce]

It could be that MS is 100% crap, but that title is clickbait. You have zero evidence that MS is responsible, let alone deliberately doing it.

No but also yes. Use some common sense. Userbenchmark, "A-M-Dip" and other oddities are still very LOUD on the Internets for a reason. If everyone were to suddenly switch up to the way I deploy and use a computer specifically to avoid all of the diabolical gotchas that MS sets up for the average dumb as a box of rocks user that can't even scroll the Internet, what would be the difference between any of my typical 55¢/$ AMD systems and any of the Intel boxes out in the wild? Really think about this one.

It was bad enough in the early VR era when I was mogging tf out of i5-6xxxK randos with my Phenom II and FX-8370. My R5 3600 continues to run well enough that I'm not pulled in any particular direction to upgrade and it already trades blows with the i7-10700K. Next build will run circles around the 14600K or first gen of Ultra-whatever. There's a big difference between getting something to run well vs staying current and whenever I tip the scale with a homeboy toolkit, that's not a good look for Intel or Microsoft especially when I'm able to pull it off with modest clocks.

Then you have some nonchalant updates that "unlock" a fair amount of performance on the current year OS that nobody likes while the gamer favorite continues getting destroyed by updates. At this point you don't need evidence. It's easier to write off as a combination of incompetence and straight up malice. Oh, the company has vested interests in pushing a NEW product...Promptly begins a diabolical maintenance chain that decimates the old system so much that creators can no longer function...Yeah totally seems legit.

One can always just stay on Windows 10. It's got pretty much the same functionality as 11 without all the extra crap. Just saying.

Gotta get away from the main update ring though. For a lot of normies, that's not only a bad idea but they don't know enough of what they're doing to get there.

 

[AusWolf]

Another thing to consider is whether a few percent lost performance is worth arguing about. I mean, would you even detect it without benchmark sites and YouTube videos pointing it out? Do you even have a 4090 to see the performance difference in games? Most people don't, yet here we are, arguing about things that shouldn't matter to 99% of users.

 

[eidairaman1]

I didn't watch the video so maybe it's explained there but I wonder where would be MS motive to bork AMD CPUs and not Intel CPUs? MS manages to derp Windows quite well just by their usual carelessness.


Good point.

There are certain items found in .ini where if the parameter GenuineIntel is not met with the hardware it will run differently.

 

[Lionheart]

That can't be true, as I see no conspiracy theory in your sentence!

If brand X is having a bad day/year, it must be because of some other brand being evil. /s

I'm just mucking around/trolling, don't take my comment seriously lol.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Another thing to consider is whether a few percent lost performance is worth arguing about. I mean, would you even detect it without benchmark sites and YouTube videos pointing it out? Do you even have a 4090 to see the performance difference in games? Most people don't, yet here we are, arguing about things that shouldn't matter to 99% of users.

Regardless it's kinda sad that it took a new cpu launch and very subpar gaming performance uplifts especially in some reviews for AMD to investigate what was going on and considering this reduces performance all the way back to zen3 which wouldn't take a 4090 to see gains with is just pathetic.

Amd and their branch prediction bs smh this has got to be one of the most bungled launches I can remember especially for a company that had all the momentum on the cpu side going in the right direction.

 

[dgianstefani]

It could be who knows, or maybe AMD needs drivers for their CPU's

You joke, but you need chipset drivers and a 3DVCache driver to work together with Xbox Game bar for the dual CCD parts to game decently. Perks of no hardware scheduler despite different specced CCDs. Really is a cowboy solution that doesn't even work all of the time.

Ideally you want to use Process Lasso and manually set affinities for every single game, then you can get rid of Xbox junk.

 

[AusWolf]

You joke, but you need chipset drivers and a 3DVCache driver to work together with Xbox Game bar for the dual CCD parts to game decently. Perks of no hardware scheduler despite different specced CCDs.

Ideally you want to use Process Lasso and manually set affinities for every single game, then you can get rid of Xbox junk.

Same on Intel with Thread Director, as I've heard. This is why I don't support heterogenous architectures, or even cores of different configurations on PC.

I like simplicity, I like controlling as much as possible through the BIOS, and not relying on software for anything. Of course, disagreeing with me is fine, I'm just too oldschool for this crap.

 

[Vayra86]

It could be who knows, or maybe AMD needs drivers for their CPU's

Oh just wait for it

'OS Ready Driver' coming... every time MS does a H-release again

Same on Intel with Thread Director, as I've heard. This is why I don't support heterogenous architectures, or even cores of different configurations on PC.

I like simplicity, I like controlling as much as possible through the BIOS, and not relying on software for anything. Of course, disagreeing with me is fine, I'm just too oldschool for this crap.

KISS. I roll with this principle in anything computer, and even in my line of work, product and tariff configuration. It works absolute wonders. In the conceptual phase, I always aim to explain how something works or is going to work in layman's terms. If I can't do that, I know the design needs simplification. People need to keep understanding how systems work on a basic level, because then they can also work with them.

 

[dgianstefani]

Same on Intel with Thread Director, as I've heard. This is why I don't support heterogenous architectures, or even cores of different configurations on PC.

I like simplicity, I like controlling as much as possible through the BIOS, and not relying on software for anything. Of course, disagreeing with me is fine, I'm just too oldschool for this crap.

It's not the same on Intel. Intel has a hardware scheduler on the chip, which is why their CPU's work pretty good even on Win 10.