Is Subwoofer necessary?

[kiriakost]

I think that we need a comparison point of what is a REAL Sub-woofer made of.
Driver dimensions - frequency response - Watts power.

I have see endless poor examples (Made in China - unknown brand)
Cheap hardened paper = cabinet
Drive = 2W tiny dimensions 8~10 cm
And a hole = Bass breathing tube

YAMAHA
Type : Active Servo Processing Subwoofer
System Amplifier output 25 W/4 Ω (THD 10%, 100 Hz)
(High-Cut Filter: Low, High)
Pressure Level: 98 dB (max.)
Capacity 8.0 L
Frequency response: 35 to 250 Hz (–10dB)
Speaker unit 6.3" (16 cm) cone woofer, magnetic shielding

 

[oobymach]

Hello, I've been using Altec Lansing BXR1121 model 2+1 speaker system.

View attachment 282176

But Creative claim that their product is so unique that it doesn't need a subwoofer yet its sound quality is much better than ordinary 2+1 sound system. The model is Gigaworks t 40.
View attachment 282177

Do you think this is actually true? If we talk about this specific model, Would creative sounds better than the Altec?

The Creative Gigaworks speakers have a frequency response of 50hz to 20khz which is fantastic for 2.0 speakers. Most 2.0 sets don't come anywhere close to that, even the high end $500+ models.

A cheap subwoofer will only have around 50hz response (Logitech Z333 WITH a dedicated subwoofer only has 55hz to 20khz frequency response) so the Creative speakers are good enough on their own unless you get a really good subwoofer you won't notice a difference.

Most good powered home subwoofers only offer around 30hz and up response, for example the 400watt THX Certified Logitech Z625 2.1 system has 35hz to 20khz response with a dedicated subwoofer.

 

[thewan]

Hello, I've been using Altec Lansing BXR1121 model 2+1 speaker system.

View attachment 282176

But Creative claim that their product is so unique that it doesn't need a subwoofer yet its sound quality is much better than ordinary 2+1 sound system. The model is Gigaworks t 40.
View attachment 282177

Do you think this is actually true? If we talk about this specific model, Would creative sounds better than the Altec?

I have these Creatives. These are purely for restricted space setups. If you don't have the space, then yes you can get away without a sub. If you do have the space, the sub is always welcome.

The Creative doesn't go that low, and the bass is just there. The mids and highs however should be better than your altec lansing since they only use a singe full range driver per speaker. But if you want the bass, like explosions and gun fire and such in games, or even some nice thumps in music, you need the sub.

 

[INSTG8R]

I turn off my sub when I am in battlefield-V so to not scare the neighborhood.

YAMAHA 4x + YAMAHA sub-woofer.
The sub-woofer its great if you have a normal in dimensions room and not a cage = less than 10 square meters.

I beg to differ. My PC room is quite small and I corner load the 10” Sub from my Z906s
Yeah your‘re dang right it’s loud but my landlord is pretty much deaf so….

 

[GamerGuy]

I'd a pair of monitors for gaming back when my desk had the space for it. a pair of KRK Rokit5 Gen3, good audio for music, and gaming. But, it definitely lacked the 'oomph' that subs can add to the sound. For purely music appreciation, the pair of speakers was pretty good (so I'd agree with the 'not needed, but desired' sentiment). But, for gaming and movies, you'd definitely want the kick that lower end of the frequency range provide, not only the sound, but the feel as well.

Due to space constraints, I'd had to resort to soundbar, and at present, I have a Philips Fidelio B97 as the soundbar of choice for my main gaming system, hooked up to my GPU via a HDMI cable for full bandwidth Dolby ATMOS sound where available. Let me tell you, when the bass hits with that sound system, you not only hear it, you can feel it (which is why you'll never hear me talk about my system and GPU fans sounding loud).

 

[Bill_Bright]

delivers a lot of bass as well....

It should be noted those "ghetto blasters" were never designed to reproduce music "accurately". Instead, they accentuated the bass and even attenuated the treble to make the bass even more pronounced.

They are never good for discerning listening. But they were never intended for that. I mean the reality is, we were entertained with a simple AM radio and 45s.

 

[P4-630]

It should be noted those "ghetto blasters"

It's not a "ghetto blaster", actually it's a Harman Kardon 100Watts stereo bluetooth speaker (speaker only).

It sounds fantastic, including the high's as well, it's not just bass, it quite balanced.

Go + Play | Portable Bluetooth Speaker

The Harman Kardon Go + Play is a full-featured portable Bluetooth speaker that delivers the distinctive Harman Kardon sound and iconic design. Crafted with premium materials, it also features a rechargeable battery with USB charge out.

www.harmankardon.com

 

[qubit]

It should be noted those "ghetto blasters" were never designed to reproduce music "accurately". Instead, they accentuated the bass and even attenuated the treble to make the bass even more pronounced.

They are never good for discerning listening. But they were never intended for that. I mean the reality is, we were entertained with a simple AM radio and 45s.

Agreed, but there actually were a few exceptions to that rule. I remember those Sharp models from around 1982.

They were physically huge, big speakers and sounded fantastic, complete with huge price tags of £300-400. Likely over a grand nowadays. How I hankered after them, didn't have a hope in hell of affording one, alas. I'd even love to have one now if it was possible to buy it new. I could actually afford such s crazy price now, though. Friggin' rite of passage!

 

[Anoniem]

I've skimmed the thread a bit but (AFAIK) haven't seen anyone mention room treatment... IF you're able, please take a look at cheap DIY sounds panels. Most people think speakers are the end-all-be-all, end of story. However, the room and surfaces that are in your room determine A LOT. Brick/concrete walls and windows are hard surfaces. YOU might not bounce of walls (I dearly hope so at least) but soundwaves do! Especially low frequencies can get trapped in corners, known as standing waves. You can buy expensive speakers, and and they might sound okay, but you're really missing out on a lot.

Americans (from what I've seen on the internet) tend to have a lot of carpet. That is just one of the many ways to dampen the bouncing energy, great It doesn't have to be fancy, just look around on the internet

PS. I've got the Adam A5X set including a decent DAC plus Adam Sub 7. Small set, great sound, far better then the expensive Bose set of a colleague which he admitted. It sounded like a fat man taking a massive dump and then slinging it around, gross. He then got some premade panels (expensive AF ) and it sounded way better.

 

[Bill_Bright]

It's not a "ghetto blaster", actually it's a Harman Kardon 100Watts stereo bluetooth speaker (speaker only).

I hear you. I was just going by the previously mentioned descriptive term. It could have been "boom box" or just portable music box.

And I hear you too - that device requires an input from some external source.

But you say "speaker only" - that is not exactly true. It clearly has an amplifier too. It just doesn't have an integrated tuner (radio), or media (tape or disc) player.

Either way, sound is analog, therefore speakers are always analog devices. And they work by moving air. Even with a "long throw", small speakers cannot move a lot of air. Not really a problem with high frequencies because they don't require much power, but it is with the low end. This is why most subwoofers found in decent home theater setups use a 10" or 12" inch speaker powered by high quality 150 to 250W RMS dedicated amp - and cost several hundred dollars.

 

[P4-630]

But you say "speaker only" - that is not exactly true. It clearly has an amplifier too. It just doesn't have an integrated tuner (radio), or media (tape or disc) player.

Right...

This is why most subwoofers found in decent home theater setups use a 10" or 12" inch speaker powered by high quality 150 to 250W RMS dedicated amp - and cost several hundred dollars.

This speaker is air-tight but the 2 passive radiators can help generate a ton of bass depending on the music you are listening to.

I bet you'd be surprised how it sounds...

Here's the old and the new Go+Play (listen with headphones)

Here's a bass test (listen with headphones)

Price: 250 EUROS..
So yeah several hundred for this bluetooth speaker....

 

[freeagent]

I packed my 5.1 setup. I wont part with it though.. but it has been replaced with a cheap JBL sounbar/sub combo. Its not very musical, but for the computer and tv/movie duties its ok.

 

[P4-630]

I'm using a 2.1 Sony blu ray set with my TV, 2.0 set for PC or my Stereo bluetooth speaker.

 

[Veseleil]

Sure yeah.....they are better 'tho also more expensive....

T40's don't have built in DSP? It makes wonders for the R1700BT. TBH, I wanted those Edifiers so badly (especially after seeing/hearing this), and then at one point of the usual web research I thought the hell, I'll just buy hobby studio gear.

 

[Nater]

Once you go sub, you never go back.

Shout-out to the Klipsch Pro-Media 2.1 BT set. It goes on clearance at Wal-Mart pretty often, I've seen them as low as $49. Got mine for $88. Worth every penny, if they blow up and die I don't care at that price. I wouldn't pay retail for them though. I had the original THX certified set back in the early 2000's, the current ones aren't quite as good, but I'd wager their still better than anything else out there at the price point. (of which I'd never pay full retail for though)

 

[Bill_Bright]

This speaker is air-tight but the 2 passive radiators can help generate a ton of bass depending on the music you are listening to.

I bet you'd be surprised how it sounds...

No, I wouldn't. As an electronics technician, audio reproduction was my first love - long before computers - and I got into computers way back in 1975.

I know how far advances in audio reproduction - especially with small enclosures - have come. I am sure, for what it is, that speaker sounds really good.

But I have been spoiled, and ruined too. Spoiled because I have heard $80,000+ 7.2 surround sound systems in dedicated home theater rooms. Ruined because after enjoying those systems, I had to go home and "settle for" my $5000 5.1 surround sound system in my plain ol' living room - a system I was, up until then, totally happy with.

Oh well. Such is life.

 

[INSTG8R]

No, I wouldn't. As an electronics technician, audio reproduction was my first love - long before computers - and I got into computers way back in 1975.

I know how far advances in audio reproduction - especially with small enclosures - have come. I am sure, for what it is, that speaker sounds really good.

But I have been spoiled, and ruined too. Spoiled because I have heard $80,000+ 7.2 surround sound systems in dedicated home theater rooms. Ruined because after enjoying those systems, I had to go home and "settle for" my $5000 5.1 surround sound system in my plain ol' living room - a system I was, up until then, totally happy with.

Oh well. Such is life.

I feel you man. I spent my teens hanging out a High End Stereo shop with a buddy who knew the owner. You can just imagine the speakers I saw and heard in the early 90s
I learned so much being there. I even "built" my own speakers using a set of regular old PA towers. Chambered and ported them, made my own crossovers and ran dome tweeters on top just to be "cool"
Now I did have one takeaway from that I still have today is my 5.1 HT setup from PSB.

 

[freeagent]

audio reproduction was my first love - long before computers

Mine too

 

[kiriakost]

I feel you man. I spent my teens hanging out a High End Stereo shop with a buddy who knew the owner. You can just imagine the speakers I saw and heard in the early 90s

Memories:
I had actually work for six months at such High End Stereo sales shop at 1992, it was the year of first ever Philips TV at 100Hz.
Audio products demonstration and technical support.
The major contenders at High End Stereo for the working class, PHILIPS, JVC, Panasonic (about speaker systems).

 

[Bill_Bright]

the speakers I saw and heard in the early 90s

sales shop at 1992

Kids!

AR,
Crown,
Dual
Shure,
McIntosh,
Dynaco,
Phase Linear,
Teac,
Carver,
Heath,
Scott
Fischer.

Those are some of the names I grew up with.

Sorry, but Philips, JVC, and Panasonic were never considered contenders in the "high-end" market. They made reliable products, but mid to entry level only.

 

[P4-630]

AR,
Crown,
Dual
Shure,
McIntosh,
Dynaco,
Phase Linear,
Teac,
Carver,
Heath,
Scott
Fischer.

Never heared of Marantz?...

In 1953, Saul's passion project became a business and the Marantz Audio Company was born from his home in New York.

Marantz™ - Quality Receivers, Amplifiers, & Hi-Fi Components

Shop the Marantz™ official site. Founded by legendary acoustic expert Saul Martinez. Discover exceptional AV with our receivers, amplifiers, & more.

www.marantz.com

 

[Bill_Bright]

Oops. In fact, I had a nice Marantz 240 power amp to drive my AR-3a speaker systems. And a friend had the same setup. We put them together once and converted two Bose 901 owners to AR! LOL

It was a good thing I was single, living in the barracks, and eating in the mess hall in the Portuguese islands of the Azores at the time. We had an Audio Club that sold high-end electronics duty and tax free. Those ARs cost me $200 each - at the time, that was 2 month's pay! But well worth it.

Note that Marantz was not a "stereo" amp. It was a dual-mono block amp as the left and right channels were totally isolated from each other. It was revolutionary for its day because it had no power switch or gain (volume) control. It was controlled completely by a separate pre-amp. In my case, a Dynaco PAT-4a, an outstanding pre-amp in its day, which I built. Here is a review of its predecessor, the PAT-4.

However, sadly, like many major players from back in the day, Marantz either sat on their laurels and let the rest of the world renovate past them, or they were bought out and went downhill. They have come back somewhat in recent years, but are the not premier brand they were back in the day.

There are certainly other major brands from back in the day. Klipsch and Thorens also come to mind.

 

[80251]

This statement contradicts itself. Of course you're supposed to hear it. Down to 20 Hz with your ears and down to almost zero with your guts.

But you do have a point: the lowest frequencies, those below 40 Hz or so, do not have a musical pitch that a human can discern. The same is true for the highest frequencies, above 4-5 kHz or so.

What about cats and dogs? Can they enjoy bass below 40 Hz.?

 

[freeagent]

Carver had way too much drive and presence for my equipment. That preamp lasted about an hour with me lol.

Nothing like sitting on the couch getting a back massage from your stereo

 

[Bill_Bright]

What about cats and dogs? Can they enjoy bass below 40 Hz.?

Actually, no - though not sure cats and dogs "enjoy" any sound, other than their master's approving voice.

These animals are more aware of vibrations and changes in air pressures - both of which low frequencies produce. The problem is, these sounds are more or less omnidirectional. That is, it is very difficult to pinpoint their source by listening. In a quality sound system, for example, assuming a quality, multi-microphone recording, you can "see" or picture in your mind where the guitarist and lead singer are standing on the stage. But low frequency sounds seem to come from everywhere. This is exactly why the subwoofer can be positioned off to the side and out of the way - even disguised as an end-table.

The problem there is, when an animal cannot "see" where the sound is coming from, they get confused, nervous and even scared. This is exactly why dogs and cats don't "enjoy" thunderstorms or the 4th of July fireworks.