Just curious, but why can't you find laptops with Ryzen 7640HS or 7840HS by themselves? Always has a dedicated GPU

[Phoenix Nano]

The whole point of 7035 and 7030 is to cement the fact that AMD will continue to do anything in its power to keep Phoenix out of the affordable market. I don't think there's anyone here that wants to see things continue like this, but this is how it's been for a while now. 12CU is off limits to non-"premium" designs according to AMD.

Why do you think they are doing that? they dont have enough production/supply maybe? so they rather sell with bigger margins on discrete gpu configurations.
AMD is so maddening dumb if true, why even bother to include such a nice iGPU if they are going to sell it with a discrete GPU thats better anyways... Making the iGPU a waste of die space...

Its really sad strategy because they are forcing me and everyone looking for ~$800/900 range Laptop to go intel with a much worse iGPU

Funny i also asked a HP sales representative why they offer Phoenix with discrete iGPU only does that order come from HP or AMD? and he deflected the question by telling me HP doesn't sell gaming laptops without discrete GPUs (Why not offer Phoenix in your non gaming models then -_-)

Add to that the fact that since last gen AMD believes its 12CU APUs are on a different, premium tier now, so it's essentially impossible to have high end Phoenix in a budget laptop. The breadth of the 7000 lineup is all the evidence you need. $$$$? 7040. No $$$$? 7035/7030/7020.

Very hard to understand AMD logic here, correct me if im missing something but doesnt a discrete GPU negate the benefits of of the 12CU iGPU? considering the discrete GPU will be better and used for gaming instead of the iGPU

What is the use case for a 780M coupled with a discrete GPU?

 

[tabascosauz]

Why do you think they are doing that? they dont have enough production/supply maybe? so they rather sell with bigger margins on discrete gpu configurations.
AMD is so maddening dumb if true, why even bother to include such a nice iGPU if they are going to sell it with a discrete GPU thats better anyways... Making the iGPU a waste of die space...

Its really sad strategy because they are forcing me and everyone looking for ~$800/900 range Laptop to go intel with a much worse iGPU

Funny i also asked a HP sales representative why they offer Phoenix with discrete iGPU only does that order come from HP or AMD? and he deflected the question by telling me HP doesn't sell gaming laptops without discrete GPUs (Why not offer Phoenix in your non gaming models then -_-)

I speculated for a while that it might be supply issues. Maybe pointing fingers at AMD's N4 allocation. The other 7000 families this year are on time but are not fabbed on a [relatively] cutting edge process. Dragon Range is a respin of the same N5/N6 desktop silicon. Navi31 is N5/N6. Navi33 is N6. Mendocino is a new design but on N6. Rembrandt-R is a rebrand on N6. Barcelo is a rebrand on N7.

iirc Phoenix is AMD's only N4 product currently, and it's still pretty late in terms of the overall market, there are a lot of high volume products out there this year in full swing production that need N4 (SD 8G2, Dimensity, Apple, etc.)

HP does have some odd priorities though. Availability of Elitebook and Dragonfly seems really spotty and dependent on location. And Dragonfly Pro is a US exclusive.

Very hard to understand AMD logic here, correct me if im missing something but doesnt a discrete GPU negate the benefits of of the 12CU iGPU? considering the discrete GPU will be better and used for gaming instead of the iGPU

What is the use case for a 780M coupled with a discrete GPU?

Their hands are still tied. If Dragon Range can't work for the form factor, then Rembrandt and Phoenix are the only choice for a high performance CPU. AMD's CPU chiplet design is largely unchanged since Ryzen 3000 and means that it is less suitable the lower power the use case is - the CCD get into its efficiency band obviously, but IOD power draw is more or less constant, and there's also other increased overhead that doesn't fall under core or SOC power draw but still drives up package power.

Even if Dragon Range idled much better, it also has a huge package taking up much more PCB space, which is always precious in laptops that aren't huge. And it is also a premium design, pretty sure it would be more expensive on a chip basis.

 

[Space Lynx]

i don't think it's supply issues, rog ally has been in stock and not sold out once for two months now, and it uses the phoenix chip and only costs $699.

there is no reason they couldn't have introduced a mini laptop for $799 with the same chip by now. AMD marketing team just got this one wrong, and they will lose market share because of it.

 

[Phoenix Nano]

Their hands are still tied. If Dragon Range can't work for the form factor, then Rembrandt and Phoenix are the only choice for a high performance CPU. AMD's CPU chiplet design is largely unchanged since Ryzen 3000 and means that it is less suitable the lower power the use case is - the CCD get into its efficiency band obviously, but IOD power draw is more or less constant, and there's also other increased overhead that doesn't fall under core or SOC power draw but still drives up package power.

Even if Dragon Range idled much better, it also has a huge package taking up much more PCB space, which is always precious in laptops that aren't huge. And it is also a premium design, pretty sure it would be more expensive on a chip basis.

I can understand some of that but still doesn't explain the i7 13700H or do you think the 7840HS is sold at a higher price?
Also given how much hype was given to Phoenix GPU seems like a missed opportunity to not offer a entry gaming laptop without dedicated graphics... they could offer the same build quality but sell for 100 to $200 less without discrete GPU

Why hype the GPU to kingdom come and waste precious die space on it if its going to go unused on laptops with discrete graphics

OEMs and AMD marketing department blunder on this one