Lowering idle power on Zen 4?

[AleXXX666]

For example, my 7800X3D runs at 85-86 °C when I'm crunching with BOINC with 4800 MHz RAM and 1 VSOC at a constant 4.8 GHz core speed. If I enable EXPO at 6000 MHz, VSOC jumps to 1.3 (I could manually lower it to 1.2 with not much difference in power used), which also means the CPU reaches its 89 °C limit under load and lowers core clocks. I'd much rather have higher and stable core clocks and lower temperatures than a higher memory clock that I don't feel literally anywhere.

Well, I think RAM bandwidth is still important, so in your case you could use 5200/5600 JEDEC RAM which is 1.1V also, though (oh, no, big timings - IDC, literally, lol)

 

[Palladium]

My 9800X3D is 15W total package idling with VSoC 1.08V and VDDIO 1.1V, RAM 6000CL30 at 1.35V.

CPU is negative 30 CO all core with -0.1V VCore offset.

Idle wattage is same as my 5600 non-X that is only running VSoC @ 0.8V. Enabling ASPM on my 5600 shaves of 2-3W in SoC draw too.

I think can push the X3D VSoC even lower, when I'm bored.

 

[rubiconlexicon]

My 9800X3D is 15W total package idling with VSoC 1.08V and VDDIO 1.1V, RAM 6000CL30 at 1.35V.

CPU is negative 30 CO all core with -0.1V VCore offset.

Idle wattage is same as my 5600 non-X that is only running VSoC @ 0.8V. Enabling ASPM on my 5600 shaves of 2-3W in SoC draw too.

I think can push the X3D VSoC even lower, when I'm bored.

15W is quite amazing for Zen. I had heard from base Zen 5 users (9700X and such) that idle power was hardly changed from Zen 3/4, and remained around the 30W range. Does your 9800X3D idle at around 15W even on stock settings or did it require the curve optimiser and VSOC changes to reach that level?

 

[Palladium]

15W is quite amazing for Zen. I had heard from base Zen 5 users (9700X and such) that idle power was hardly changed from Zen 3/4, and remained around the 30W range. Does your 9800X3D idle at around 15W even on stock settings or did it require the curve optimiser and VSOC changes to reach that level?

Stock was around 25W idle without EXPO or voltage lowering.

 

[AusWolf]

Well, I think RAM bandwidth is still important, so in your case you could use 5200/5600 JEDEC RAM which is 1.1V also, though (oh, no, big timings - IDC, literally, lol)

Nah, I'm good. I don't feel any difference in performance anyway. I could probably detect it in certain edge cases with benchmark tools, but I don't care.

 

[AleXXX666]

Nah, I'm good. I don't feel any difference in performance anyway. I could probably detect it in certain edge cases with benchmark tools, but I don't care.

thanks for the input/feedback, as 4800 is MUCH cheaper than ALL higher freq LMFAO, and if the diff is only for AIDA64 game or some "serious" work, then, who cares?

 

[AusWolf]

thanks for the input/feedback, as 4800 is MUCH cheaper than ALL higher freq LMFAO, and if the diff is only for AIDA64 game or some "serious" work, then, who cares?

Keep in mind that this is MY opinion. What others say may differ. I'm not exactly a frame rate chaser, if I get anywhere north of 50-60, I'm fine. I can't be asked to put up with more heat and power for a few percent.

 

[Waldorf]

but once you have more than 6C, i dont see it making sense to spend money on a big cpu, and then "restrict" bus bandwidth.
or the other way: what pc usage doesnt need IF/Bus.

and a 64GB kit with 4800-5200CL36-38 cost the same or more, than 6000CL30..

 

[AleXXX666]

Keep in mind that this is MY opinion. What others say may differ. I'm not exactly a frame rate chaser, if I get anywhere north of 50-60, I'm fine. I can't be asked to put up with more heat and power for a few percent.

ooh, I loove POWER lmfao, only high-volume gasoline, and lots of kw gpu (though, at a price. I'm not fan of overprice products like **90 series lol)

but once you have more than 6C, i dont see it making sense to spend money on a big cpu, and then "restrict" bus bandwidth.
or the other way: what pc usage doesnt need IF/Bus.

and a 64GB kit with 4800-5200CL36-38 cost the same or more, than 6000CL30..

yeah I duno, but check the info above - 6000 CL 30 will eat more volts itself then SOC will eat more too - that was the question haha

 

[londiste]

thanks for the input/feedback, as 4800 is MUCH cheaper than ALL higher freq LMFAO, and if the diff is only for AIDA64 game or some "serious" work, then, who cares?

I know this will feel like nagging but it is not meant as such - What do you use a computer for if not for testing, gaming or serious work? A simple internet box?

 

[Athlonite]

For example, running 4800 instead of 6000 MHz RAM and 1 VSOC instead of 1.3 on my 7800X3D lowers idle power from 30 to 17-18 W. Sure, it doesn't explain where that 18 W comes from, but still...

90~95% comes from the IO chip which runs at 100% all the time

 

[Waldorf]

@AleXXX666
i can still run lower settings, if wanted..

 

[Zach_01]

Just strike me right now…

There is a power setting (deep into settings) on my AM4 board related to lnfinityFabric

DF C-States (Enabled/Disabled or Auto/Disabled)
(DF as DataFabric)

If enabled theoretically it will turn down IF clock when the interconnection is not used or it’s in low utility. Just like CPU frequency is dynamic.

I also think that the “Uncore/SoC OC mode” must be disabled.

It was recommended back in Zen2 launch for stability to keep DF C-states disabled for those who want IF overclocking.

May worth to give it a try for those who want to explore low idle power further and don’t have concerns about OC.

 

[AleXXX666]

I know this will feel like nagging but it is not meant as such - What do you use a computer for if not for testing, gaming or serious work? A simple internet box?

gaming+surfing, studying. playing for fun with vm too.

 

[Waldorf]

@Zach_01
unless something changed, C-states is about cpu, not fabric clocks, and should always be disabled or you will likely have issues with things like usb.

and unless you have a really "small" gpu on a 2 ccd chip, turning off uncore will have an impact on ram perf.
while my 5950 can game with jedec ram/fabric settings just fine, but the 5800 i had before wasnt able to do anything stutter free, unless i had ram/fabric above stock,
and all my games are +4y old.

ignoring that the little power i save during idle/low load (vs using stock), gets wasted by any gaming, i rather turn the pc off if im not using it for +20 min, anything less

 

[dgianstefani]

Lowering temperatures will improve power draw. So delidding etc.

Thing is with chiplet CPUs idle power will be an issue unless advanced packaging is used. Hence why ARL is much better than Zen 5 despite both using chiplets.

 

[Waldorf]

@dgianstefani
i mean im all for lowering power consumption, but when i see how much time ppl spend to get tiny bit lower V's (and being stable), all while running the cpu with full clocks on low load,
instead of setting up the balanced (gaming/work etc) and power savings plan properly, and save much more by limiting max cpu per to 50% (savings plan),
while still able to benefit from using above jedec settings for ram/IF.

e.g. i rather drive a V/W 8 that turns off 4 cyl when perf isnt needed, instead of getting a 4 cycl engine that you end up "constantly" pushing to get the same output.

 

[londiste]

@dgianstefani
i mean im all for lowering power consumption, but when i see how time ppl spend to get tiny bit lower V's (and being stable), all while running the cpu with full clocks on low load,
instead of setting up the balanced (gaming/work etc) and power savings plan properly, and save much more by limiting max cpu per to 50% (savings plan),
while still able to benefit from using above jedec settings for ram/IF.

e.g. i rather drive a V/W 8 that turns off 4 cyl when perf isnt needed, instead of getting a 4 cycl engine that you end up "constantly" pushing to get the same output.

In this particular topic of Zen IO die power usage power saving plans will not help.

Btw, a modern CPU does exactly what your VW engine does - if a core is not used, its power is cut. Even more, same applies to various blocks or units inside a core (execution units, integer units, vector units etc.) or blocks or units outside the cores themselves - think for example iGPU (and parts of it) or even downclocking various things like buses and even some memory controllers are capable of clocking down.

 

[Waldorf]

@londiste
per title, its about idle (low load) power.
thats where my option of using the power plan makes more sense, while still keeping overall system response better than if using jedec ram and lower bus clocks.

downclocking 16 cores to 1.72 ghz will give me more savings, than lowering bus clock by a little.
and even the temps reflect that.
all stock/jedec, my 5950 does about 40-60*C on idle/low load with cpu power from 70-100w, and 1800/3600 while using power savings plan does 28-36*C with 40-50w power.

and it works on any cpu, ppl dont need to have a clue about bios settings, and you can even use "shortcut" to switch between profiles, so no need to open settings for it,
when you dont have a UPS/portable device.

 

[londiste]

Unless you are using High Performance power plan or some other that raises the minimum frequencies, that part should be fine. If I remember correctly the default Balanced power plan in Windows 11 defines 5% as minimum for CPU which should be plenty enough. And cores do clock down to hundreds of MHz. As far as I know, the power plan should not deal with SoC or the memory.

I am curious about what you are comparing though. What is stock/jedec and what is 1800/3600? And if you are getting lower power from 1800/3600 with no other tweaks compared to presumable lower clocked bus and memory from stock then there is something else going on. Or the measurement is not quite accurate - I'd love to see the breakdown on power being reported in both cases.

 

[AMF]

WITH FIREFOX OPEN TO TPU ZEN2 THOUGH CPU IDLES AROUND 4.2ghz WINDOWSULTIMATE PERFORMANCE BOOSTS TO 4.75ghz

 

[JakoDel]

buy ryzen they said, the IO die and the idle power consumption are horrible, and its all gonna stay that way until 2027 while Intel is cruising at 9k MT/s (making RAM offload with AI not as painful) at 7W idle... oh well. at least I know my CPU wont self destroy. go amd, the warrior of us consumers*!

*trx40 and Vega/rdna1 consumers excluded, they saw the potential profits were worth more than positive PR but that's another story.

 

[Palladium]

 

[Waldorf]

@londiste
its not about min clocks, but (limiting) max, and just because cores can downclock, doesnt mean they will.

never said anything about power plan changing soc/ram, just that its easier to "deal" with, than messing with soc/ram stuff, for minimal gains (vs limiting max clock)

in short: limiting cpu clock thru win power plan to 50% (for max), saves you ~50w on a 5950, and until i see the masses able to save more than ~25w when messing with (soc) voltages,
its clear what makes more sense, and has a bigger impact on power consumption, all while not impeding bus/thru output of the whole system.
detailed power consumption isnt relevant in this case, as we are talking about (overall) low idle power, not "where" we save it.


long:
stock (jedec) settings in bios, ram 2666 (all other stuff on auto), while on balanced power plan (min 99/max 100%) i get ~40*C idle, and up to 60*C on low loads, cpu consuming 75-100w (OCCT).
running AMP settings:
1800 IF, 3600 ram, with power savings plan (min 0%/max 50%) i get 28-32*C idle, and up to 40*C on low load, cpu consuming 40-45w.


@JakoDel
so you blindly believe advertising? ok.
last time i checked, a pc's power consumption isnt based on soc power alone, overall counts, part of the reason why germany sells ~90% amd for BYO.

 

[JakoDel]

@londiste
@JakoDel
so you blindly believe advertising? ok.
last time i checked, a pc's power consumption isnt based on soc power alone, overall counts, part of the reason why germany sells ~90% amd for BYO.

RPL was a dead end and it pulls a ton of power while ARL is too expensive, so zen was my only choice either way. I honestly didnt even know that new zen pulled 30W for fun. thats like, a pretty big deal for everyone without A/C since that means cooking yourself alive in the summer.

Oh, and I also didnt know they dont target a frequency but rather a temp (is there any way to change this by the way? 50°C while on the desktop is kinda bad).

it's my mistake in the end, but reddit can be an hell of a braindead echo chamber.