Microsoft Investigated Again in Europe

[WhiteLotus]

Web browsers aren't the only thing that can access files on the Internet, you know.

and how many users know that?

 

[mdm-adph]

and how many users know that?

If someone doesn't know something as simple as that, I suspect they're the same kind of people who don't know that an emergency brake can also stop their car. Which kinda makes me wonder why they're even allowed to use a computer in the first place.

 

[WhiteLotus]

so does your mum know how to access the internet without a browser? or your grandfather? you know the kind of people that aren't nerds and like things to just work.

 

[mdm-adph]

so does your mum know how to access the internet without a browser? or your grandfather? you know the kind of people that aren't nerds and like things to just work.

None of those people you mention use the internet in my family.

And please, if you're going to call me a nerd, just come out and say it. Don't be subliminal about it.

 

[btarunr]

Last time I checked, Safari didn't depend upon half as many proprietary technologies as IE does.

And maybe it's just personal experiences, but every single mac user I know (including myself) uses Firefox for 99% of browsing -- Safari's rendering engine can be quite funny when it wants to be.



I still fail to see what's so necessary about IE that even Windows Messenger would need to use it to show web content whenever someone clicks on a link.

And the "big deal?" The "big deal" is that it's anti-competitive. And that's a pretty big deal, if you ask me.

Yeah right...it's like people throwing stones at Ford Motors for using a music-system made by Sony in their cars...hey we need the right to use a Blaupunkt stereo. Point is...the manufacturer has the right to use whichever component he wants when building a product. If the consumer has a problem with that, nobody is stopping him from using an available alternative. If people are ignorant about Opera and Firefox's existance, IE is not to blame, the consumer's ignorance is. Why doesn't Mozilla piss and moan about the whole issue the way Opera does? because Mozilla is proactive it felt that a large scale effort like the Spread Firefox campaign would bear fruit and it did. Opera's failure has nobody to blame BUT OPERA. Opera browser sucks.

 

[WhiteLotus]

None of those people you mention use the internet in my family.

And please, if you're going to call me a nerd, just come out and say it. Don't be subliminal about it.

i was just referring to a the general conception that people think when they come across a tech forum.

and so if none of those family member use the internet, then it is because they don't know how to/don't want to. therefore they most likely wont know how to access the internet without a browser, yet as you said in above post, can still apply emergency brake if they are in a pickle and yet they can still go on a computer.

 

[mdm-adph]

Yeah right...it's like people throwing stones at Ford Motors for using a music-system made by Sony in their cars...hey we need the right to use a Blaupunkt stereo. Point is...the manufacturer has the right to use whichever component he wants when building a product. If the consumer has a problem with that, nobody is stopping him from using an available alternative.

To me, your argument fails on just a few points: this wouldn't be like Ford using a Sony stereo -- this would be like Ford using a Ford stereo, and then hardwiring it in as part of the car to where you couldn't even remove it and even if you tried, it would probably break the car. Please tell me how a consumer is supposed to use viable alternatives in that situation.

If people are ignorant about Opera and Firefox's existance, IE is not to blame, the consumer's ignorance is. Why doesn't Mozilla piss and moan about the whole issue the way Opera does? because Mozilla is proactive it felt that a large scale effort like the Spread Firefox campaign would bear fruit and it did. Opera's failure has nobody to blame BUT OPERA. Opera browser sucks.

Hell, I agree with you there -- like I said before, I believe that Opera's claim is largely without merit. It's just that statements like "as if your computer blows up if it uses IE" just get my panties all up in a bunch.

 

[HaZe303]

I live in europe, but im tired of these damn trials. If they were made for the consumers best, then sure it would be great. But the EU is trying to make it worse for us consumers, we would have to pay for more shit if they win this. So hope MS wins this. These trials are all about money, nothing else. So you who think EU is making it better for consumers, wake up, its all about the ££$$$£££

 

[mdm-adph]

i was just referring to a the general conception that people think when they come across a tech forum.

and so if none of those family member use the internet, then it is because they don't know how to/don't want to. therefore they most likely wont know how to access the internet without a browser, yet as you said in above post, can still apply emergency brake if they are in a pickle and yet they can still go on a computer.

Bah -- forgive me for my silliness. Though I seriously doubt if my mother has been doing any drift racing recently, if you catch my drift.

 

[Woah Mama!]

Opera CEO = Crying toddler in a high chair throwing food at Microsoft whilst screaming his/her head off.

Who cares about what Nokia complain about, they own the mobile market basically but you dont hear other popular brands like Motorolla and LG complaining.

 

[WhiteLotus]

Bah -- forgive me for my silliness. Though I seriously doubt if my mother has been doing any drift racing recently, if you catch my drift.

no worries dude i was just in the mood to be right

 

[mdm-adph]

no worries dude i was just in the mood to be right

well, we'll call it 50/50 since my mother can't drive.

 

[WhiteLotus]

well, we'll call it 50/50 since my mother can't drive.

50/50 is it


on topic now.

i think sueing MS for every little thing is going too far.

 

[xfire]

There needs to be something like IE uninstaller. Not all linux distro's come with Firefox Puppy linux comes with Sea Monkey, KDE comes with Konqurer and so on.
Now in my dad's office there are pretty old comp's which don't access the net. Now I wanted to remove IE but it doesn't get uninstalled.
Then there is windows messenger, It isn't used by anyone in my house but it can't be uninstalled.
I would have shifted to linux a long time back but no one listens.

 

[mdm-adph]

There needs to be something like IE uninstaller. Not all linux distro's come with Firefox Puppy linux comes with Sea Monkey, KDE comes with Konqurer and so on.
Now in my dad's office there are pretty old comp's which don't access the net. Now I wanted to remove IE but it doesn't get uninstalled.
Then there is windows messenger, It isn't used by anyone in my house but it can't be uninstalled.
I would have shifted to linux a long time back but no one listens.

You see -- that's the point. Microsoft has integrated those things to the point where they can't be uninstalled, even if you want to.

Now, Microsoft has started "including" (integrating/replacing) other competitors products into it's OS, namely firewalls and with "Windows Defender", spyware protection. I'm sure they're already planning on "including" Silverlight eventually, turned on by default, with little naggy "security" warnings the first time you try to install Adobe Flash.

 

[jydie]

Why should MS include Firefox or Opera along with IE? Windows is THEIR Operating System!! Can MS now sue Ubuntu for not including IE with their linux OS?

 

[btarunr]

^ MS can't sue Ubuntu, there's no Ubuntu version of the MSIE. The valid example would be: Why doesn't Opera sue Apple for including the Safari browser? Opera makes a browser for Mac OSX too.

@xfire

No you can't bundle an uninstaller for MSIE because countless applications for Windows (including those not made by MS) explicitly depend on IEframe eg: Real Player, Winamp, Steam, Y! Messenger, etc. Such applications use MSIE to render web-pages within the app window and the use of ieframe.dll is included into their code by their respective developers. Such apps will not function if IE is removed.

 

[sputnio]

I hate Opera. MS has a right to bundle any browser it wants with its OS just as Apple bundles Safari and the thousands of Linux distributors choose between Firefox, Konqeror and Opera. Even if Opera wins this case nobody's going to use the crap of a browser that Opera is anyway. It's not a crime selling people what you want to. My computer doesn't blow up when I use IE, just that it sucks when I use Opera.

agreed.

 

[Fragman]

I dont think the EU is doind a good job the need to sue them over DX10 to they a forcing ppl to use that crappy system Vista

 

[xfire]

Nice an other browser war.
@btarunr The softwares you mentioned have to use that why? because I.E is there by default and any other way they would have to bundle that respective software breaking the lisencing and all.

 

[btarunr]

Nice an other browser war.
@btarunr The softwares you mentioned have to use that why? because I.E is there by default and any other way they would have to bundle that respective software breaking the lisencing and all.

No. That's because MSIE is the only browser that can proxy-render web-pages for other applications in Windows using ieframe.dll . It's not for the reason you stated. It's because Steam can't render the .html files on its own, it uses IE to do it, so does Yahoo Messenger and 100s of other apps.

Even if I do apply your logic, it would still make no sense: You can't make firefox/opera do this becasue then the developer has to bundle FF/Op specially for his app as a system requirement and kill his app's USP and bloat his software. Instead the developer is confident that every Windows PC has MSIE for use and he'd use IEframe instead.

 

[xfire]

Thats cause its integrated. Thats the whole point of Opera's suite. I.E integrated into windows forcing developers to use I.E.

 

[btarunr]

Read again, kid. It's because IE is the ONLY browser that does embedded-rendering (proxy-rendering), Firefox/Opera cannot do this. I cannot afford to make Firefox/Opera a system-requirement today as the larger audience is IE. I'd have to rewrite the Gospel full of code.

 

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

^ MS can't sue Ubuntu, there's no Ubuntu version of the MSIE. The valid example would be: Why doesn't Opera sue Apple for including the Safari browser? Opera makes a browser for Mac OSX too.

@xfire

No you can't bundle an uninstaller for MSIE because countless applications for Windows (including those not made by MS) explicitly depend on IEframe eg: Real Player, Winamp, Steam, Y! Messenger, etc. Such applications use MSIE to render web-pages within the app window and the use of ieframe.dll is included into their code by their respective developers. Such apps will not function if IE is removed.

becasue theyve been there so long laziness becasue its there.

 

[btarunr]

^Okay I make an awesome application that requires Opera for embedded rendering and I publish it making Opera a system requirement. Oh noes!! nobody's using it because 1. They find it useless to download and install Opera just to be able to use my app. 2. Opera sucks anyway. Result: My application flunks in the market. Instead let me just make it use IE (which every Windows PC has installed irrespective of the users having IE or Firefox/Opera as their default browser. My application is a hit. Why? Because it makes use of whatever the OS gives it and gets the job done.