NASA Achieves milestone Solid State Battery

[AusWolf]

Has alternatives. Example*

*Needs of more R&D.

This is the first EV-related article that I enjoyed reading. Thanks!

 

[Wirko]

Has alternatives. Example*

*Needs of more R&D.

Capacitors can complement batteries and improve peak current capability when accelerating and braking, yes. But not much more. The most interesting part is the link to another recent article about solid state batteries being developed by Toyota. In cars by 2027. *If*.

There's apparently (been) some effort to make a hybrid between batteries and capacitors. This is an example, I think we already talked about it on the TPU forum long ago. It uses the term "quasi-solid-state electrolyte" but unfortunately doesn't explain what that could mean.

Some of the patents listed here also describe such hybrids (but read carefully, most of them just combine separate chemical batteries and capacitors). One of them was actually made by NASA around 2017, but it's unclear if this new solid-state battery was developed from that one.

You're down-under. Winters in the Northern hemisphere are far more challenging than in your neck of the world.

Looks like even in the Oyster Alley you have some choice, as long as your choice isn't "Great Lakes". Interesting chart here:

 

[claes]

Of other nations, sure. And I do. For the states? Nah, our family is fairly common.

It really isn’t. Please the statistics I posted earlier. It is actually highly unusual.

 

[Mussels]

You're down-under. Winters in the Northern hemisphere are far more challenging than in your neck of the world.

It's pretty frozen solid around here lately, was -3c at sunrise
Apparently i live in central italy?

where the sun sits in the sky entirely depends on your distance from the hemisphere, hence my point about the tech having its limitations, especially with assumptions about how many hours of daylight places get and at what angle

 

[Space Lynx]

@P4-630 I also read that TechSpot article about Toyota's breakthrough with solid state. First cars incoming in 2027, they seem to be pretty serious about that being an accurate number too, and they seemed pretty serious about its scaling ability and it would be cheaper than current EV batteries. Honestly, if half of this even pans out to be true and Toyota hits its target in 2027, the world might be changed forever overnight. We might be on the verge of history in the making, and if anyone could do it is a company like Toyota who throws money at RnD more than the other companies seem to do. Even though they know hydrogen most likely will fail, they still support it for example; my guess is in the hopes of a rare breakthrough. Which is what happened with solid state, I think most had given up on it.

Maybe Toyota and NASA should reach out to each other for the betterment of mankind, because it sounds like we are so close to something great.

 

[AusWolf]

@P4-630 I also read that TechSpot article about Toyota's breakthrough with solid state. First cars incoming in 2027, they seem to be pretty serious about that being an accurate number too, and they seemed pretty serious about its scaling ability and it would be cheaper than current EV batteries. Honestly, if half of this even pans out to be true and Toyota hits its target in 2027, the world might be changed forever overnight. We might be on the verge of history in the making, and if anyone could do it is a company like Toyota who throws money at RnD more than the other companies seem to do. Even though they know hydrogen most likely will fail, they still support it for example; my guess is in the hopes of a rare breakthrough. Which is what happened with solid state, I think most had given up on it.

Maybe Toyota and NASA should reach out to each other for the betterment of mankind, because it sounds like we are so close to something great.

Toyota has been one of the biggest anti-EV advocates so far, so if they say solid state is good, then it'd better be.

 

[dgianstefani]

Toyota has been one of the biggest anti-EV advocates so far, so if they say solid state is good, then it'd better be.

They're for EV, just not with the batteries being used today.

This lines up nicely with their #1 reliability ranking, which they couldn't sustain with the unfit for purpose EV batteries being used now.

Solid state batteries are the solution.

 

[Space Lynx]

They're for EV, just not with the batteries being used today.

This lines up nicely with their #1 reliability ranking, which they couldn't sustain with the unfit for purpose EV batteries being used now.

Solid state batteries are the solution.

yep, if you google how long LG batteries last in the Chevy Bolt, results I get are only 5-6 years... thats for a 30 grand car... Toyota has been very smart about it all, waiting for a breakthrough, while dabbling in all fields lightly. I always thought the Prius was genius for its time, I mean could you imagine buying the first Prius? how much money you saved in the long run compared to everyone else... wild.

 

[TumbleGeorge]

There are already several Chinese electric car models from at least two manufacturers using a 150kWh solid-state battery pack in their top configurations. A single charge range of 1000 km is claimed.* Unfortunately, for various reasons, they are not advertised and sold almost anywhere in the world. *According to the Chinese measurement standard.

 

[dgianstefani]

There are already several Chinese electric car models from at least two manufacturers using a 150kWh solid-state battery pack in their top configurations. A single charge range of 1000 km is claimed.* Unfortunately, for various reasons, they are not advertised and sold almost anywhere in the world. *According to the Chinese measurement standard.

Yeah, don't trust Chinese numbers.

Their science isn't magically 10 years ahead of the rest of the world, more like the opposite.

Their short range taxi stuff is semi "solid state".

 

[lexluthermiester]

Yeah, don't trust Chinese numbers.

Their science isn't magically 10 years ahead of the rest of the world, more like the opposite.

This. China has it's advantages but like everywhere else, there are limits that they can not overcome.

 

[TumbleGeorge]

Yeah, don't trust Chinese numbers.

Their science isn't magically 10 years ahead of the rest of the world, more like the opposite.

Their short range taxi stuff is semi "solid state".

I do not believe the values claimed by any manufacturer, no matter where in the world and on what rules it is tested.

 

[KLiKzg]

Toyota has been one of the biggest anti-EV advocates so far, so if they say solid state is good, then it'd better be.

& they are right to do so...as current EV on 2023 market are too expensive in materials & not so clean:

• from rare & heavy metals used in them
• from Li-ion, which is actually usually an ion with oxygen inside
• from their 20 years of experience of marketing those cars (which many of us don't like, Prius as an example)
• ...

While you can easily hit around 40ish % of ICE + battery to get below (or around) 100g of CO2 on 100km (yes, I live in EU).
& you also put more torque from start, as the ICE has it more in higher end.
& you can loose all those extra, non-needed parts on ICE, when implementing a EM with ICE.

So yes, Toyota has done it's math right...it is still not time for EV.

There are already several Chinese electric car models from at least two manufacturers using a 150kWh solid-state battery pack in their top configurations. A single charge range of 1000 km is claimed.* Unfortunately, for various reasons, they are not advertised and sold almost anywhere in the world. *According to the Chinese measurement standard.

& this has been confirmed where? On YouTube only?

Don't get me wrong, any can can build 150kWh battery & put it in a car...it is enormous, do you would need sthg like Lincoln Navigator to put it in.
Also, you can get 1000km on that car, if it is not heavy enough.
But could that car pass all the standards? Crash tests?

There is a good reason, which is not about technology, that this car is not sold outside of China.
Probably it has several safety features problematic & could not pass the tests. So only by decreet of ruling CP of China, they are making it only for their market.

 

[TumbleGeorge]

Well, well, when I was searching, I found the relevant information on an Australian website. Are you satisfied now? No, I won't link to it, do the work to find it yourself if you're interested.

 

[AusWolf]

& they are right to do so...as current EV on 2023 market are too expensive in materials & not so clean:

• from rare & heavy metals used in them
• from Li-ion, which is actually usually an ion with oxygen inside
• from their 20 years of experience of marketing those cars (which many of us don't like, Prius as an example)
• ...

While you can easily hit around 40ish % of ICE + battery to get below (or around) 100g of CO2 on 100km (yes, I live in EU).
& you also put more torque from start, as the ICE has it more in higher end.
& you can loose all those extra, non-needed parts on ICE, when implementing a EM with ICE.

So yes, Toyota has done it's math right...it is still not time for EV.

Exactly my point. Toyota knows the facts that Tesla fanboys don't want to acknowledge. They're damn right not to invest in a technology that's gonna die out in a decade (or maybe two at most) because it's inconvenient, unsustainable and expensive.

 

[claes]

Well, well, when I was searching, I found the relevant information on an Australian website. Are you satisfied now? No, I won't link to it, do the work to find it yourself if you're interested.

Please don’t troll, of course we’re not satisfied, glad you are with yourself

 

[Mussels]

There are already several Chinese electric car models from at least two manufacturers using a 150kWh solid-state battery pack in their top configurations. A single charge range of 1000 km is claimed.* Unfortunately, for various reasons, they are not advertised and sold almost anywhere in the world. *According to the Chinese measurement standard.

Knowing that chinese products don't have to live up to any of their claims, it does throw some doubt onto them

Well, well, when I was searching, I found the relevant information on an Australian website. Are you satisfied now? No, I won't link to it, do the work to find it yourself if you're interested.

the burden of proof lies on the person making the claim
You've just made your claim invalid, so no one will take it seriously... or anything else you say on the topic, unless you change the way you approach things.

 

[TumbleGeorge]

Knowing that chinese products don't have to live up to any of their claims, it does throw some doubt onto them


the burden of proof lies on the person making the claim
You've just made your claim invalid, so no one will take it seriously... or anything else you say on the topic, unless you change the way you approach things.

Ok, read this.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Exactly my point. Toyota knows the facts that Tesla fanboys don't want to acknowledge. They're damn right not to invest in a technology that's gonna die out in a decade (or maybe two at most) because it's inconvenient, unsustainable and expensive.

This! Tesla is going to need to provide a battery swap-out program for their vehicles, one that is NOT over-priced. Hopefully, by the time it's needed, better batteries, like NASA's new hotness, will be a thing!

 

[Kyan]

I don't know if it was already post, but here a/the pattent of solid state battery on NASA website.
https://technology.nasa.gov/patent/LEW-TOPS-167
I didn't know they have a website for all their technology and discoveries, it's incredible to be able to see everything they are developing.
There's a "Spinoff" section on the home page that show pattent that made their way into our daily life.

 

[Mussels]

Ok, read this.

Sure. Which part?
Do you not understand that you're intentionally posting basically nothing other than smugness?

Make a claim. Provide evidence to back it up. simple.

 

[claes]

Probably the part that supports their claim

 

[the54thvoid]

Would someone like to quote that part (as I believe is forum etiquette) so we don't all go around in stupid f****** circles?

When somebody links to a post to substantiate their claim, it is pretty much forum language to put a snippet of said proof in quotation.

 

[Mussels]

Probably the part that supports their claim

Which specific part in that link is meant to provide corresponding information to which claim? Because they certainly never specified it.

Being obtuse and vague is not how to win an argument, unless your goal is to make the other parties involved give up on the conversation.

 

[claes]

See post 134, or your quotation of that post in 142.

I honestly don’t know why you’re being so hostile. Was tumblegeorge being an asshole? Absolutely. But they made a simple claim and parsing through a listicle isn’t exactly rocket science. If you had scrolled as far as your preceding post you probably would’ve answered your own question.