NVIDIA GeForce 4XX Series Discussion

[newtekie1]

At this point, I even believe he works for AMD, although he may not be on their payroll. All those AMD adds on his site stink...

What is clear is that one way or another he is very close to AMD and everything he says about AMD/Ati is true. So he already is 50% right about graphics news before he starts making things up about Nvidia. Then if anything he makes up turns out to be half true, hey! He already is above 50% correct!! Then it must be true most of what he says right?

No, because he usually inaccurately inflates ATi/AMD news to make it sound better...

 

[@RaXxaa@]

Its still gonna be the same graphic card in thier gt300 series only they speed would differ, as before same gt2xx core only more shader and clock and then come up with ridicoulous prices for them even thought it took no work to develop them as they were taken from previously manufactured GPUs, thats something i like in ati, atleast not much performance difference but atleast the prossesors are dufferent and atleast took some work to make them and still are cheap as in sub $200 or $300 and go cheap fairly quick.

The gtx295 is still $500 even though there are new HD5800 series that can beat it easily at a price of $600 (Crossfire 5870) and they just got out, nvidia cards are just to overpriced for what they are!

They need to come up with sumthing new!

 

[erocker]

Its still gonna be the same graphic card in thier gt300 series only they speed would differ, as before same gt2xx core only more shader and clock and then come up with ridicoulous prices for them even thought it took no work to develop them as they were taken from previously manufactured GPUs, thats something i like in ati, atleast not much performance difference but atleast the prossesors are dufferent and atleast took some work to make them and still are cheap as in sub $200 or $300 and go cheap fairly quick.

I think you have it backwards. RV870 is based off of RV770 which is based off of the R670. Nvidia has claimed that their new GPU will be a drastic architectural change.

 

[newtekie1]

Its still gonna be the same graphic card in thier gt300 series only they speed would differ, as before same gt2xx core only more shader and clock and then come up with ridicoulous prices for them even thought it took no work to develop them as they were taken from previously manufactured GPUs, thats something i like in ati, atleast not much performance difference but atleast the prossesors are dufferent and atleast took some work to make them and still are cheap as in sub $200 or $300 and go cheap fairly quick.

The gtx295 is still $500 even though there are new HD5800 series that can beat it easily at a price of $600 (Crossfire 5870) and they just got out, nvidia cards are just to overpriced for what they are!

They need to come up with sumthing new!

Just like the RV870, the GT300 will be a redesign, and not just an upgrade.

And give the GTX295 some time to drop in price, it takes time for the market to react to new releases, it isn't instant. And the Crossfire 5870s isn't $600, more like $750+. Crossfire HD5850s should be in the $600 range, and outperform the GTX295, but still cost $100 more, well actually more like $130 more since the GTX295 has already dropped in price to $470.

And since you seem to want to talk about cards being worth the price. The GTX295's price to performance ratio is better than Crossfire HD5870s! Yes, the HD5870's perform better than the GTX295, but the GTX295 is a better buy right now.

 

[erocker]

Yes, the HD5870's perform better than the GTX295, but the GTX295 is a better buy right now.

I would say a single 5870 is a better choice than a GTX295 right now.

 

[newtekie1]

I would say a single 5870 is a better choice than a GTX295 right now.

But we are talking different price and performance classes. A single 5870 is better than two right now also. That isn't what he or I was addressing.

If you want to take huge leaps down in price and performance like it doesn't make a difference in the discussion, then a GTX275 is a better buy right now than either the HD5870 or HD5850.

The fact is that his statement is incorrect. For the performance you are getting, the HD5870 Crossfire is a worse buy over the GTX295, not the other way around as he says.

 

[@RaXxaa@]

Nvidia has claimed that their new GPU will be a drastic architectural change.

I really would like to see that or dissapointment isint a uncommon word

 

[soldier242]

ok, how far away is nvidia with its card? i mean is it that far away to boost the clocks so it can/could compete with the 58xx? Wasn't ATi in nVidias position last time new GPUs showed up, but they couldn't change anything, but the price ... somehow i can the an advantage in bringing something late, but when you think about it, if you have a new product, that is all new and shiny, isn't that an advantage too, since there isn't something that can compete with this product so everyone wants to have it???

 

[@RaXxaa@]

And give the GTX295 some time to drop in price, it takes time for the market to react to new releases, it isn't instant. And the Crossfire 5870s isn't $600, more like $750+. QUOTE]

maybe i missed it cause i did see a thread here rather a review saying it was $600 or something not 750

 

[SNiiPE_DoGG]

What are you guys talking about with the arch discussion?

rv870 is an expansion of the same arch as rv770

GT300 is and ENTIRELY new architecture, not like the gt200 or g80 at all (for all intensive purposes that is, yes all the architectures process graphics)


also why would you buy a gtx 295 over 5870 CF? not only is the 5870 more power efficient but two 5870 in CF is no where near the same performance bracket as the 295...

 

[@RaXxaa@]

And also if there is slow price drop, well the gtx295 have been out long enough to be around 375 or sumthing dollars

 

[@RaXxaa@]

I think you have it backwards. RV870 is based off of RV770 which is based off of the R670. Nvidia has claimed that their new GPU will be a drastic architectural change.

Also i said in the same series example gt 200 series only or 9xxx series only

 

[soldier242]

GT300 is and ENTIRELY new architecture, not like the gt200 or g80 at all (for all intensive purposes that is, yes all the architectures process graphics)

ok, and you're sure that this is correct, i mean i could say it isn't 'cuz anybody doesn't know ATM, besides nVidia of course, i could say stuff like that all the time but who cares if there isn't any evidance at all

 

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

What are you guys talking about with the arch discussion?

rv870 is an expansion of the same arch as rv770

GT300 is and ENTIRELY new architecture, not like the gt200 or g80 at all (for all intensive purposes that is, yes all the architectures process graphics)


also why would you buy a gtx 295 over 5870 CF? not only is the 5870 more power efficient but two 5870 in CF is no where near the same performance bracket as the 295...

its intents and purposes IIRC

 

[phanbuey]

at the moment GT300 is like the bigfoot of GPU's...

People want to believe that it exists but not even decent rumors are coming out. No blurry cellphone cam pics... no random chinese website review. Makes me question how close they are to the actual release. They are losing sales now and they don't even have decent rumors to stop the bleeding?

makes me very suspicious of what is really going on.

 

[Mistral]

So are they hinting that the rumors of bad yields had their source in AMD's competitive analysis team??? Maybe they can tell us how it will perform too?? Please...

I'm fairly certain "AMD's competitive analysis team" is either thrown in for spice, or they mean something completely different from what you think.

...GT300 is and ENTIRELY new architecture, not like the gt200 or g80 at all (for all intensive purposes that is, yes all the architectures process graphics)...

This is absolutely true, that the GT300 is a different architecture than the GT200... I'm sure nVidia has added a number of incredible things, like a tessellator and other DX11 stuff...

 

[Kursah]

They'll release it when it's ready...you have the give and take, and imo even though ATI and NV have been competetive, NV had the edge back when DX10 was new, even with a few indiscretions...leaving ATI lagging and providing a sub-par product..not saying it was crap, but it didn't keep up and by the time it did, NV had already moved onto gen II DX10 stuff. I think it's good ATI has the run this round, that keeps NV in check, that keeps AMD/ATI in their ever popular fanbase.

I feel no need to jump out and get either product from either company at this point because of the simple fact I don't NEED the extra performance yet...not saying it wouldn't be cool to have the latest and greatest, but my GTX260's yet to dissapoint me, and by the time it's due for replacement I'm sure there'll be a plenty of good options from both sides. Frankly, if it takes NV till early next year to get a better product released, it wouldn't matter either way...the longer they wait though, the better it needs to be for the money obviously. Don't think the competition between ATI and NV is over or even at a massive breaking point right now, it's hard to find an HD58xx card, they're not cheap, and while they're good, for many in reality they're not necessary yet...sure they will be with newer games and more DX11 support, and once that happens, we'll probably be in Generation 2 of DX11 products from both sides in all honesty. The new ATI products are definately awesome, no doubts there...gotta say nice work ATI, it's a product they needed, and they provided, and it's a product that will only improve over revisions and generations. With the GT300 series, I'm sure it'll be well worth the wait, I guess it comes down to how excited you are to blow the wad in your wallet now, and the balance of do you really need it now? Or can you wait for competition to not only give you more options, but also drive prices down? Frankly I'm glad there's less hype on the GT300 than we're used to seeing with other products...it gets awfully annoying to have the forum filled with fanboist threads that prove nothing more than the hype of those blurry chinese cell phone pics and made-up specs. I'm sure it'll be well worth the wait for those that are willing, and if not, ATI's current product is sure to please...you can't lose either way, or even better if your current card is performing fine, then who really cares until both are out, drivers are matured and there's a real reason to buy a DX11 card, waiting might not be a bad thing for many. I'm sure in the coming week or two more and more will be released, hell they might wait...who knows what NV is up to, maybe they are setting up for dissapointment...if that's the case when I decide to upgrade, what I feel is the best value for my money will win, regardless of who makes it.

 

[soldier242]

you know what really bothers me is the DX10 talk, and how good it was when it was released, but i don't see much coming from DX10 right now, but since NV "released" it, it was good ... i don't understand it ... why in the hell isn't DX11 good as well, i mean here aren't much DX10 titles and there are no DX11 atm, but why bother it was the same when Vista and DX10 came, but loads of people jumped the DX10 train cuz' NV could offer ... now that means fanboyism to me

 

[Kursah]

Well there are a quite a few DX10 supporting titles and one DX11 supporting title last I checked, granted most are multi-DX compatible, which is the right way to go imo...you won't sway everyone to go to a new and more expensive technology if they believe their current hardware is fine for their needs, and relegating them to not being allowed to play newer games on their lower-end, lower-res setups is flat out wrong imo.

Frankly DX10 was a dissapointment in many aspects and enjoyable in a few aspects, DX9 is still king, and it's because of the much more massive support...but just like anything else, the drive behind this thread, the drive behind ATI's new card, the drive behind DX10 and 11 was and is still hype. To me it's more about gaming performance, if my new game doesn't use DX10...oh well, as long as it plays nice and smooth, and looks damn good for a modern game, who am I to complain. The new DX11 features could really become something really promising, or they could fail...though I doubt it'll be as rough as the DX10 era was and still is. Time will tell for sure.

 

[newtekie1]

maybe i missed it cause i did see a thread here rather a review saying it was $600 or something not 750

Just look at the prices on newegg, a single HD5870 is $380. Multiply by 2 and you get $760.

Two HD5850s would be around $600, and would offer better price to performance right now, but of cource the HD5850 is virtually non-existant in the market right now...

also why would you buy a gtx 295 over 5870 CF? not only is the 5870 more power efficient but two 5870 in CF is no where near the same performance bracket as the 295...

Because the price for two HD5870s in Crossfire isn't justified by the performance. The GTX295 offers performance that is beyond good enough, for a lower price, AND offers better price to performance.

And two HD5870s are definitely NOT more efficient. A single HD5870 pulls about 122w, so two would pull about 244w, a GTX295 pulls 181w. Where do you get that the CF setup is more efficient?

 

[kid41212003]

GTX380 faster than GTX295, 25% - Launch price: $549
GTX360 faster than GTX295, ~0-5% - $349










This is baseless guessing.

@newtekie1

It's clear that the HD5870 is alot more energy effective, because, 90% of the time that you use your computer, it's in IDLE mode, and HD5870 only consume like 20Watt when IDLE.

 

[Kursah]

It's clear that the HD5870 is alot more energy effective, because, 90% of the time that you use your computer, it's in IDLE mode, and HD5870 only consume like 20Watt when IDLE.

Unless you turn your PC off and game most of the time, or fold while not gaming, then that figure is all but useless. There are too many variables, sure it's a VERY nice idle rating, and for the masses it probably holds true...but to many gamers, enthusiasts, benchers and folders it might not hold much. Besides it's not about idle power, it's about load power...which I gotta say both companies could trim some more, but the more power we want, the more power it's gonna take obviously...though it does seem that things are getting better tuned and honed to be more efficient, which is definately a plus, now give us HD58xx or GT3xx power with an 80W load, 20% OC! Wishful thinking right? Well at least for now...in a year or two, I bet it'll be a reality.

 

[Benetanegia]

you know what really bothers me is the DX10 talk, and how good it was when it was released, but i don't see much coming from DX10 right now, but since NV "released" it, it was good ... i don't understand it ... why in the hell isn't DX11 good as well, i mean here aren't much DX10 titles and there are no DX11 atm, but why bother it was the same when Vista and DX10 came, but loads of people jumped the DX10 train cuz' NV could offer ... now that means fanboyism to me

It's called "to learn the lesson". You didn't get that part right. It's not the brand that has changed, it's the fact that people have learnt that DX11 will mean nothing just as DX10 meant nothing. DX10 wasn't as good as it was hyped, but a lot of people bought cards, because they thought that the games were going to be released soon and make a difference. Don't need to say that didn't happen and won't happen with DX11 neither. You can't blame people for being cautious with how they want to spend spend their money.

Also 8800 was 2x faster than previous generation of cards. HD5870 is barely 20% faster than last generation's fastest single GPU card and not even faster than previous generation's dual cards. There's very little sense to jump to HD5xxx if you have a GTX or HD48xx card.

 

[kid41212003]

Unless you turn your PC off and game most of the time, or fold while not gaming, then that figure is all but useless. There are too many variables, sure it's a VERY nice idle rating, and for the masses it probably holds true...but to many gamers, enthusiasts, benchers and folders it might not hold much. Besides it's not about idle power, it's about load power...which I gotta say both companies could trim some more, but the more power we want, the more power it's gonna take obviously...though it does seem that things are getting better tuned and honed to be more efficient, which is definately a plus, now give us HD58xx or GT3xx power with an 80W load, 20% OC! Wishful thinking right? Well at least for now...in a year or two, I bet it'll be a reality.

I have my computer on most of the time, restart is pita, and I'm here @ Techpowerup most of the time when I'm not gaming, so it's pretty obvious that Idle power consuming is really importance.

I don't turn off my computer, and then get my laptop to type these posts. I play games 2-3 hours a day, sometime not at all, and just surfing webs or doing my homework, researchs, reports.

Idle power consume is true to everyone, except peps that use quad-sli, or quad x-fire or something . And that's is 0.001% (1 every thousand).

 

[KainXS]

It's called "to learn the lesson". You didn't get that part right. It's not the brand that has changed, it's the fact that people have learnt that DX11 will mean nothing just as DX10 meant nothing. DX10 wasn't as good as it was hyped, but a lot of people bought cards, because they thought that the games were going to be released soon and make a difference. Don't need to say that didn't happen and won't happen with DX11 neither. You can't blame people for being cautious with how they want to spend spend their money.

Also 8800 was 2x faster than previous generation of cards. HD5870 is barely 20% faster than last generation's fastest single GPU card and not even faster than previous generation's dual cards. There's very little sense to jump to HD5xxx if you have a GTX or HD48xx card.

right now the 8800GTX might be about twice as fast as a X1950XTX but at launch was it . . . . no, in some games it was close but in most, no, the ATI responded with the 2900XT and was that twice as fast, . . . no, go so on and so on and the answer is no

now I am hoping the GTX380 will be twice as fast but thats just hope.