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OEM technician needing advice about getting into custom gaming hardware repair.

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I certainly would not invest money in buying new CPUs for testing if possible simply because it is possible for a faulty motherboard to take out a good CPU. Even accidental mishandling from dropping to ESD can. And of course, buying used has its risks too.

It takes a lot to start up a business. And it takes time for new businesses to get established. That's why most fail in the first year. :(
 
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Ppl who do "gaming PC repairs" mostly repair GPUs as that's about the only part that usually fails in a gaming PC and makes sense to repair.

Repairing a GPU requires specialized knowledge and serious skills. If you have to ask for guidance in a forum like this then you most likely don't have such skills.



This guy has got an annoying generic Slavic accent but he is a real pro. Watching his videos will humble you for sure as you will see firsthand how much of a pro you have to be in order to make money in this business.
 

Tyler55

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I certainly would not invest money in buying new CPUs for testing if possible simply because it is possible for a faulty motherboard to take out a good CPU. Even accidental mishandling from dropping to ESD can. And of course, buying used has its risks too.

It takes a lot to start up a business. And it takes time for new businesses to get established. That's why most fail in the first year. :(
I don't know if I'm going to be buying used CPUs or new basic CPUs for testing. Either way though, I need some CPUs to determine if it's a mobo or CPU issue. With that said, back in the day when I was replacing motherboards, I never came across a bad CPU.

In regard to your last sentence:

I already have a very well established OEM computer repair business. Right now, I'm just deciding on what test parts to buy to get into the gaming computer repair business.

Ppl who do "gaming PC repairs" mostly repair GPUs as that's about the only part that usually fails in a gaming PC and makes sense to repair.

Repairing a GPU requires specialized knowledge and serious skills. If you have to ask for guidance in a forum like this then you most likely don't have such skills.
Hi Passport Bro.

I'm not asking for guidance to repair GPUs or any other part :). If I determine the GPU, PSU, etc, is at fault, the customer decides if they want to try to get that part repaired somewhere, or if they want me to replace that part. If the former, I get a diagnostic fee. If the latter, I get the repair fee.
 

Frick

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Thank you for the additional replies.

I asked about the CPU because what happens if I get into a situation in which I've narrowed down the problem to the mobo or the CPU? Granted, at that point the chances of the issue being caused by the CPU are very slim, compared to the issue being caused by the motherboard, but I wouldn't know for certain unless I switched out the CPU. I can't tell the customer the issue is with the motherboard because there is a slim chance that the CPU could be at fault. I really don't want the liability of removing the cooler and replacing the CPU, let alone the liability of replacing the whole motherboard. I was going to limit my hardware replacement to the GPU, PSU, ram, and drives.

This is why you don't make promises you're not 100% sure you can keep. Computers are complex things. I like to tell people about the time when the NIC on a laptop at work didn't work with the switch it was connected to. It worked everywhere else, but with that specific switch? It behaved as if not connected to a network. The other, identical, laptop, bought at the same time at the same shop with the same specs, worked with the switch. Also I just remembered that we had the cool warranty with it so a technician actually came to the offices (we had three rooms in that shared office space), did some troubleshooting and then he replaced the entire motherboard in the machine, and it still didn't work. Then he walked to the network room and plugged it in to a different switch and it worked.

Also, this is not hard, especially not today. CPU's today have heat spreaders on them. In the olden days you could actually destroy a CPU when changing coolers (I met a guy who destroyed his brand new Athlon this way), but nowadays they have great big chunks of metal to protect them so no worries, unless you really mess up, and with 25 years experience you really shouldn't.


I certainly would not invest money in buying new CPUs for testing if possible simply because it is possible for a faulty motherboard to take out a good CPU. Even accidental mishandling from dropping to ESD can. And of course, buying used has its risks too.

I'm gonna say this risk is so slim as to be non-existant. Plus, spending say $250 on CPU's doesn't really count as an "investment".
Bill Bright,

To clarify, I repair about 60 computers each month, and I don't have employees. I also get about 25 to 30 calls each month for gaming computer repair. For the gaming repairs, I direct the customer to the one and only shop in my city that repairs gaming computers.

I assume you'll charge a fee for just taking a look? I'm also going to assume that those "gaming computer repairs" is mostly older computers with dead or dying GPU's or PSU's, because those are the biggest reasons people with "gaming computers" would call an actual shop. Motherboards usually last a long time, CPU's are statistically speaking nigh indestructible.
 
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Tyler55

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Frick,

Back in the day when I replaced motherboards, the old thermal paste had basically turned into a hard glue. With the amount of twist force needed to separate the CPU from the heatsink, I thought for sure the CPU would rip out of the socket, or the socket would rip out of the motherboard. That never happened, but if that were to happen to me with the very expensive gaming CPUs and motherboards, well, ouch!

Yes, there will be a diagnostic fee to make it worth my while. Yes, I expect most hardware issues to be the GPU or PSU.
 
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Ppl who do "gaming PC repairs" mostly repair GPUs as that's about the only part that usually fails in a gaming PC and makes sense to repair.
Well that's not true. Just because a PC is designated a "gaming" PC, that in no way means the GPU is more likely to fail than any other component. It has long been my experience repairing computers used for all sorts of tasks (PoS, servers, gaming, office, CAD/CAE, general) that the PSU is the component more likely to fail with hard drives being a close second.

I'm gonna say this risk is so slim as to be non-existant.
Non-existent? Nonsense. The risk of a qualified technician being electrocuted is slim too but does that mean it is non-existent? Of course not. So a qualified tech will certainly take the necessary precautions to ensure good grounds, for example.

I said it "is possible". I did not say likely.

I've seen power supplies go up in flames. I've seen wires melt. I've seen fans literally fly apart. Are these common issues? Absolutely not. But non-existent? Not even.

Plus, spending say $250 on CPU's doesn't really count as an "investment".
Huh? Then what do you call spending money on something used to help you conduct your business?

If you need a truck to make house call, you "invest" in a truck. If you need a multimeter to troubleshoot electronics, you "invest" in a meter. If you need a spare PSU, RAM, keyboard, mouse or CPU you can use to swap in while troubleshooting a computer, you "invest" in those spare parts.

Spending money on a test bench, ream of paper, printer ink, wages are "investments" in the company.

I assume you'll charge a fee for just taking a look? I'm also going to assume that those "gaming computer repairs" is mostly older computers with dead or dying GPU's
You are making assumptions I sure would not make. Contrary to your assumption, new electronics fail too. In fact, when new is the 2nd most common point in time when electronics do fail.
 

Frick

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Non-existent? Nonsense. The risk of a qualified technician being electrocuted is slim too but does that mean it is non-existent? Of course not. So a qualified tech will certainly take the necessary precautions to ensure good grounds, for example.

I said it "is possible". I did not say likely.

I've seen power supplies go up in flames. I've seen wires melt. I've seen fans literally fly apart. Are these common issues? Absolutely not. But non-existent? Not even.

So you've never seen a motherboard damage a CPU then?

Huh? Then what do you call spending money on something used to help you conduct your business?

If you need a truck to make house call, you "invest" in a truck. If you need a multimeter to troubleshoot electronics, you "invest" in a meter. If you need a spare PSU, RAM, keyboard, mouse or CPU you can use to swap in while troubleshooting a computer, you "invest" in those spare parts.

Spending money on a test bench, ream of paper, printer ink, wages are "investments" in the company.
Ok so this is just words again. What I mean it's not a big deal. Spending say $250 on CPUs is not the same thing as buying a $250k truck, it's just what you have to have on hand to troubleshoot stuff, which is the basis for this entire thread. It's like me buying PH2 bits for my job, I don't have to run to my boss and say "HEY is it cool if I invest in this packet of PH2 bits here's the expected ROI". .... Wait, are you thinking like that about printing paper?

You are making assumptions I sure would not make. Contrary to your assumption, new electronics fail too. In fact, when new is the 2nd most common point in time when electronics do fail.

New electronics have warranties.
 
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So you've never seen a motherboard damage a CPU then?
I never said that. Why are you trying to put words in other peoples mouths?
Ok so this is just words again.
Yes, and words have meanings - you really should learn how to use them. Investing in a business does not necessarily mean spending $250,000 on a truck. And who does that for computer repair anyway? :kookoo:

You might invest in a $5 #2 Phillips screwdriver. Or training for your employees. Or test equipment. Or a "bench stock" of commonly used parts. A cabinet of consumables like ink, paper, TIM (thermal interface material), canned dusting gas, Ethernet cable and connectors, etc.

it's just what you have to have on hand to troubleshoot stuff
Gee! No kidding? And how do these materials, tools, resources, happen to become "on hand"? Friggin magic? Daddy gives them to you? You find them in Best Buy's dumpster?

No?

You "invest" in them.

I think you need to "invest" in a Business 101 course for yourself before you keep talking on this topic.
 

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I never said that. Why are you trying to put words in other peoples mouths?

The point is it's so rare even you have not seen it happen.
Yes, and words have meanings - you really should learn how to use them. Investing in a business does not necessarily mean spending $250,000 on a truck. And who does that for computer repair anyway? :kookoo:

You might invest in a $5 #2 Phillips screwdriver. Or training for your employees. Or test equipment. Or a "bench stock" of commonly used parts. A cabinet of consumables like ink, paper, TIM (thermal interface material), canned dusting gas, Ethernet cable and connectors, etc.


Gee! No kidding? And how do these materials, tools, resources, happen to become "on hand"? Friggin magic? Daddy gives them to you? You find them in Best Buy's dumpster?

No?

You "invest" in them.

I think you need to "invest" in a Business 101 course for yourself before you keep talking on this topic.

I just mean it's not a big deal to buy some entry level CPU's, ok? If he's going to start to troubleshoot modern PC's without a pile of hardware collected from years of doing just that having some CPU's is not a bad idea. It's not a massive expenditure, is my point, and it's not a bad idea, is my other point. And I really don't think you think buying a €5 dollar packet of Milwuakee PH2 bits is the same thing as buying a €250k truck. They are both probably "investments", technically, but one of them is like day to day operations stuff, the other is an actual investment you have to consider.
 
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The point is it's so rare even you have not seen it happen.
Says who? Twice now you have said I have not seen it happen. Where did I ever say that? I didn't. So why are you making stuff up? Why are you pretending you can speak for others and claim you know what others have seen or not seen. Not only is that deceitful and misleading, it is not helping the OP, or anyone else at all - and certainly instills no trust at all in anything you say, Frick. :(

For the record, here is what we have seen in my shop, NOT OFTEN, but on more than one occasion over the years.

A system did not successfully POST with beep codes "suggesting" a bad CPU. Trying the CPU with another, known to be good motherboard and that did not boot there either further "suggesting" the CPU was bad. Installing a 2nd, known to be good, CPU into the first board and now it does not boot either. Installing that 2nd CPU into the 2nd board and now it no longer works - this after it did work fine until this swapping around. Installing a 3rd known to be good CPU into the 2nd board and it now boots and passes POST just fine.

This "suggests" the first board was bad and it took out the 2nd CPU.

Can I prove it? OF COURSE NOT! Just another problem with electronics and destructive forces that occur without any sort of visual or aural indications. Did we zap it with ESD? Not likely because we always take necessary ESD precautions even though modern systems are less susceptible to ESD damage.

having some CPU's is not a bad idea.
Who said otherwise? I specifically said back in post #24 that "a stash of common CPUs is essential". So who are you trying to impress or kid here, Frick? Yourself?

it's not a massive expenditure, is my point
Are you really that naïve? Seriously? Have you any conception of the expenditures involved in starting up a "legitimate" business? Even out of your basement or garage? Obviously not.

Sure, if you have $1000s in your pocket burning holes, no problem. But the vast majority of people who start small businesses are doing so by mortgaging their homes, cashing out their 401Ks, maxing out their credit cards and borrowing from banks, friends, and families.

It is totally naïve of your to suggest it is not a big expenditure. There are literally dozens of different AMD and Intel sockets still in use today. A tech would need at least 1 spare for each socket and more likely at least one for each chips set. That would be a HUGE "investment" - especially is trying to buy new.

As you correctly noted, new components will be under warranty. But someone has to troubleshoot down to determine which component needs to be RMD'ed. Who is going to do that? The tooth fairy?

That leaves the older/legacy systems. And you want use to believe a couple spare CPUs is all the a "reputable", capable tech needs? No way! So again, you just have no sense of reality. That is NOT meant as a criticism but just a simply, and clearly obvious observation - from someone who has been there, done that.

It's not a massive expenditure, is my point
:eek: :( Sorry Frick, but you are either delusional, totally ignorant of the reality for what it takes to set up a new shop, or have a sense of entitlement from being born with a silver spoon in your mouth. So some combination of all of the above. You talking again about a €250k/$250K truck just illustrates that.

It is a HUGE "investment" starting up any business. Computer repairs is no exception.

I see no reason to discuss then further unless the OP has a question. So I am outta here.
 

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Ppl who do "gaming PC repairs" mostly repair GPUs as that's about the only part that usually fails in a gaming PC and makes sense to repair.

Repairing a GPU requires specialized knowledge and serious skills. If you have to ask for guidance in a forum like this then you most likely don't have such skills.



This guy has got an annoying generic Slavic accent but he is a real pro. Watching his videos will humble you for sure as you will see firsthand how much of a pro you have to be in order to make money in this business.
You are better off watching northridgefix
 
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I've noticed that when the ram passed software tests but are still not stable, using the intergrated graphics could let the problem expose, as intergrated gpu require high bandwidth of memory&high accuracy.
Perhaps this idea is helpful for you for some corner cases!
 

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I've noticed that when the ram passed software tests but are still not stable, using the intergrated graphics could let the problem expose, as intergrated gpu require high bandwidth of memory&high accuracy.
Perhaps this idea is helpful for you for some corner cases!
Thank you.

When I suspect a ram problem on the basic computers I repair now, I switch out the ram if there's only one stick or try one ram stick at a time if the computer has more than one stick of ram.
 
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When I suspect a ram problem on the basic computers I repair now, I switch out the ram if there's only one stick or try one ram stick at a time if the computer has more than one stick of ram.
Swapping in known-good spares is a tried and trued troubleshooting method used by amateurs and professionals alike for decades. As suggested earlier, software-based RAM diagnostic tools are good, but none are 100% conclusive. If they report any errors, even one, the RAM is bad.

But occasionally, they will report no problems, yet the RAM still fails in use, and/or when paired with other RAM. So, swapping in known good RAM is often the best test.

But of course, not everyone has a bunch of spare RAM laying around so, if able, and the system has more than one stick, running with just a single RAM stick to see if it fails is an option, repeating the process with the remaining sticks, hopefully identifying the bad stick through a process of elimination.

Sadly, some users have destroyed their good RAM this way by failing to unplug the computer from the wall (and remove the battery if a notebook) and/or failing to touch bare metal of the case interior BEFORE reaching for the RAM. As a result, they zapped the good RAM with a destructive static discharge from their body. :(

Note to conclusively test RAM, you need to use sophisticated and very expensive test equipment, like this $2,495 Memory Tester (and that's for the cheap model)! So it is usually easier (and cheaper!) to swap in known good RAM and see what happens.
 

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Swapping in known-good spares is a tried and trued troubleshooting method used by amateurs and professionals alike for decades. As suggested earlier, software-based RAM diagnostic tools are good, but none are 100% conclusive. If they report any errors, even one, the RAM is bad.

But occasionally, they will report no problems, yet the RAM still fails in use, and/or when paired with other RAM. So, swapping in known good RAM is often the best test.

But of course, not everyone has a bunch of spare RAM laying around so, if able, and the system has more than one stick, running with just a single RAM stick to see if it fails is an option, repeating the process with the remaining sticks, hopefully identifying the bad stick through a process of elimination.

Sadly, some users have destroyed their good RAM this way by failing to unplug the computer from the wall (and remove the battery if a notebook) and/or failing to touch bare metal of the case interior BEFORE reaching for the RAM. As a result, they zapped the good RAM with a destructive static discharge from their body. :(

Note to conclusively test RAM, you need to use sophisticated and very expensive test equipment, like this $2,495 Memory Tester (and that's for the cheap model)! So it is usually easier (and cheaper!) to swap in known good RAM and see what happens.
A pci/pcie diag card with the LED display is still a necessity besides a multimeter to test psu output volts
 
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A pci/pcie diag card with the LED display is still a necessity besides a multimeter to test psu output volts
Those are nice but still assumes some significant level of motherboard functionality. Plus, while it is certainly possible to place a variety of realistic loads on the system and watch the diagnostic card's display at the same time, it is kinda of a PITA - at least for me.

Plus, none of those cards, software HW monitors, nor most multimeters test for ripple or other anomalies that affect computer stability.

I personally always take a spare, known good PSU with me on trouble calls, and keep another spare on my test bench. As soon as I suspect a problem might be power related, I swap it in. Otherwise, since everything inside the computer case depends on good, clean, stable power, I could be chasing my tail for some time before isolating the problem. Plus, it sure would be bad for my reputation and business if I told the client he needed a new graphics card, for example, when it really was the PSU all along.

The only way to properly and conclusively test a power supply is under a variety of realistic "loads" then analyzed for excessive ripple and other anomalies. This can only be done with an oscilloscope or a dedicated power supply “analyzer” - sophisticated (and expensive!) electronic test equipment. I have a scope but don't take it on trouble calls. Plus, thoroughly testing all the PSU's output voltages under a variety of loads is a much bigger PITA, and very time consuming too.

Sadly a dedicated PSU analyzer is way beyond my budget. So swapping in a known good power supply is typically the best and easiest alternative to verify a client's PSU is good, or not. And if I can get my hands in there and still see what I am doing, swapping in a different PSU for testing is pretty quick too.
 

eidairaman1

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Those are nice but still assumes some significant level of motherboard functionality. Plus, while it is certainly possible to place a variety of realistic loads on the system and watch the diagnostic card's display at the same time, it is kinda of a PITA - at least for me.

Plus, none of those cards, software HW monitors, nor most multimeters test for ripple or other anomalies that affect computer stability.

I personally always take a spare, known good PSU with me on trouble calls, and keep another spare on my test bench. As soon as I suspect a problem might be power related, I swap it in. Otherwise, since everything inside the computer case depends on good, clean, stable power, I could be chasing my tail for some time before isolating the problem. Plus, it sure would be bad for my reputation and business if I told the client he needed a new graphics card, for example, when it really was the PSU all along.

The only way to properly and conclusively test a power supply is under a variety of realistic "loads" then analyzed for excessive ripple and other anomalies. This can only be done with an oscilloscope or a dedicated power supply “analyzer” - sophisticated (and expensive!) electronic test equipment. I have a scope but don't take it on trouble calls. Plus, thoroughly testing all the PSU's output voltages under a variety of loads is a much bigger PITA, and very time consuming too.

Sadly a dedicated PSU analyzer is way beyond my budget. So swapping in a known good power supply is typically the best and easiest alternative to verify a client's PSU is good, or not. And if I can get my hands in there and still see what I am doing, swapping in a different PSU for testing is pretty quick too.
The multimeter is for determining the general output on the volts and current on the psu, if you want to go further a oscilloscope will help but im now presuming there are tools that do it all at once
 
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By 'hardware repair' do you mean diagnosing and replacing parts or going one step further? repairs involving soldering
  • capacitors in power supplies
  • a switch in a gaming mouse
I guess even replacing the video card fans would count as a component replacement.


With all that said, I'm sorry guys, but I might have jumped the gun on pursuing this. Reason being, the more I learn about it, the more it looks like excessive stress, time, and effort, for very little profit compared to the repairs I do now.

I think you are right.
 
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The multimeter is for determining the general output on the volts and current on the psu
Current? How?

I do know how to use a multimeter, BTW. Measuring voltage is easy because it is measured in parallel. But to measure current with a multimeter, it must be done in series with the circuit. You can't just ground one lead and put the other on a test point.

And again, inadequate ripple suppression can cause stability issues. Most multimeters cannot test for ripple and even with those that can, for conclusive testing, it must be done under a variety of realistic loads - that is from idle all the way up to 100% load.

Can it be done? Yes. Easily? No. And especially not easily by inexperienced users. That's my point here. However, most users who are not hesitant to dig a little into their hardware, and who know how to use a #2 Philips screwdriver (making sure it is not a left-handed #2 Philips ;)) can easily swap in a different PSU.

I feel compelled to add a word of caution here. Anything that plugs into the wall can kill! So (1) don't go sticking meter probes inside a PSU case unless you are a qualified technician and (2), for those uncomfortable or hesitant to go digging around in their computers, there's no shame in taking it to a shop (and passing any liability issues on to them).
 
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