OEM technician needing advice about getting into custom gaming hardware repair.

[Tyler55]

Hello.

First time poster. Thank you for letting me join the forum.

I've been a self-employed computer technician for approximately 25 years. I wasn't working on gaming systems, but now I'm going to start doing so. I'm looking for some tips and suggestions to get me started. Especially in the hardware diagnostics area. Here are some of my questions and/or concerns:

1) I stopped using software memory diagnostics because I found that they were accurate if the ram failed the test. However, often times when the ram passed the test, the ram turned out to be defective. Due to that, if I suspect a ram problem, I switch out the ram if it's one stick, or try one ram stick at a time if it has more than one stick. Is it ok to continue using that ram switch out method with the gaming systems?

2) If I suspect a GPU issue and want to switch it out, is it ok to use a basic GPU just for testing purposes? I expect to have to reduce the resolution when testing with a basic GPU. I was thinking of something basic like a RX550 or 1050Ti. Would either those be ok for testing purposes?

3) If I narrow down a hardware issue to the mobo or CPU, Is the only way to narrow that down further mean swapping the CPU?

4) If a gaming computer shuts down and takes a minute or two to turn back on, then can I conclude that it's an overheating problem like I do with regular computers?

5) I've come across programs like GPU-Z and 3D Mark. Are they just benchmarking programs, or can they identify hardware problems?

6) It seems diagnosing these gaming computers will be much more extensive and time consuming compared to what I'm used to. As such, if you're a paid gaming technician, how and what do you charge for diagnostics?



I'll probably have more questions later, but that's a start for now. I'll greatly appreciate all of your advice and suggestions

 

[AusWolf]

Hello.

First time poster. Thank you for letting me join the forum.

Hi and welcome to TPU!

1) I stopped using software memory diagnostics because I found that they were accurate if the ram failed the test. However, often times when the ram passed the test, the ram turned out to be defective. Due to that, if I suspect a ram problem, I switch out the ram if it's one stick, or try one ram stick at a time if it has more than one stick. Is it ok to continue using that ram switch out method with the gaming systems?

I would say so, yes. Switching parts is almost always a good way to diagnose hardware faults.

2) If I suspect a GPU issue and want to switch it out, is it ok to use a basic GPU just for testing purposes? I expect to have to reduce the resolution when testing with a basic GPU. I was thinking of something basic like a RX550 or 1050Ti. Would either those be ok for testing purposes?

It is ok, unless there is a PSU issue. High-end GPUs eat much more power and stress the PSU much more.

3) If I narrow down a hardware issue to the mobo or CPU, Is the only way to narrow that down further mean swapping the CPU?

Logically, yes.

4) If a gaming computer shuts down and takes a minute or two to turn back on, then can I conclude that it's an overheating problem like I do with regular computers?

Unless it's a PSU or motherboard issue. Underestimating power needs and/or buying a low quality PSU that's unable to supply what the system needs is a typical rookie mistake, just like buying a crappy motherboard with an overheating VRM.

5) I've come across programs like GPU-Z and 3D Mark. Are they just benchmarking programs, or can they identify hardware problems?

The most intensive tests in 3DMark can identify a GPU or PSU issue (faulty GPU or not enough power), but they're not diagnostic programs. Especially CPU-Z isn't, its built-in benchmark isn't heavy enough for a proper stress test. I'd suggest Cinebench instead.

6) It seems diagnosing these gaming computers will be much more extensive and time consuming compared to what I'm used to. As such, if you're a paid gaming technician, how and what do you charge for diagnostics?

Usually nothing, as I only do it for friends and family.

 

[sepheronx]

What @AusWolf said

Plus, I wouldn't discount software honestly. I fix peoples PC's all the time: gaming, office, servers, etc. I have used Medicat and Hirens Boot Loader. It does wonders in data recovery, cloning, diagnostics without being in the hosts OS, etc.

 

[Tyler55]

Thank you for the reply AusWolf.

I just noticed the sticky of "New? Need PC Help? Start here! (Lots of free, useful apps for diagnosing problems)". That sounds like it will be an excellent resource for me

In regard to #3:

Well, I guess I'll have to get a test unit CPU. Do gaming systems use a standard socket? If so, any recommendation for a test CPU?

What @AusWolf said

Plus, I wouldn't discount software honestly. I fix peoples PC's all the time: gaming, office, servers, etc. I have used Medicat and Hirens Boot Loader. It does wonders in data recovery, cloning, diagnostics without being in the hosts OS, etc.

Hi sepheronx.

I do have a lot of experience in fixing software boot problems, data recovery, cloning, etc.

One nice thing that I've noticed, is that with most of the gaming computers that I've come across, the OS is on one drive and they don't usually have anything personally important on that drive. As such, it's quick and easy to rule out an OS / software issue by performing a clean install of the OS. It only takes about 10 minutes of actual hands-on time

 

[AusWolf]

Thank you for the reply AusWolf.

I just noticed the sticky of "New? Need PC Help? Start here! (Lots of free, useful apps for diagnosing problems)". That sounds like it will be an excellent resource for me

In regard to #3:

Well, I guess I'll have to get a test unit CPU. Do gaming systems use a standard socket? If so, any recommendation for a test CPU?

Personally, I wouldn't bother. The CPU is probably the most durable part of any system, it's very rare that one is faulty, and when it is, there are obvious signs (like the PC won't boot at all). Besides, you'd have to get one for every socket which is a huge expense for basically nothing.

Hi sepheronx.

I do have a lot of experience in fixing software boot problems, data recovery, cloning, etc.

One nice thing that I've noticed, is that with most of the gaming computers that I've come across, the OS is on one drive and they don't usually have anything personally important on that drive. As such, it's quick and easy to rule out an OS / software issue by performing a clean install of the OS. It only takes about 10 minutes of actual hands-on time

Having your own OS drive with a clean install is a much better investment. It'll save you a lot of time.

 

[eidairaman1]

Troubleshooting of PCs is the same regardless of hardware used, don't forget that PSU's do go bad as of producing less than ATX spec voltage on any rail, eg psu at 11.3VDC is underspec due to tolerance of -5% on 12V rail, it can also be overspec due to tolerance of +5%, same goes for 5V and 3.3 both are still +-5%, also gpus today do draw a considerable amount of current and high quality psus are a must for any build

 

[Tyler55]

For a test PSU, would the following suffice, or should I go for a higher wattage / better tolerances?

MSI MAG A650BN Gaming Power Supplyr - 80 Plus Bronze Certified 650W​

 

[AusWolf]

For a test PSU, would the following suffice, or should I go for a higher wattage / better tolerances?

MSI MAG A650BN Gaming Power Supplyr - 80 Plus Bronze Certified 650W​

No. 650 W is way under-specced for a high-end gaming build, and I'm not sure about MSi's quality, either. I'd suggest a Seasonic Prime unit of 1000 W or over if you want to diagnose even the highest-end gaming systems.

 

[Deleted member 242843]

eidairaman1 said it all. It's all the same. If you gonna be doing custom water loops, get some good tubing benders. An infrared temp gun can be handy. You probably already have a Dremel. Not really any gaming system specific tools that come to mind.

Quick edit: depending on how far down the rabbit hole you intend to go, a solder/de-solder/hot-air station can be very handy, but if you don't plan on doing component level repairs/mods, not at all necessary.

 

[Morbius2021]

Welcome,

I have been an All Around Tech supporting business and end user systems for 35 years, Doing custom systems is no different that doing business ones in terms of troubleshooting and support. The tools you use might change but having a set of hardware that can be used for swap in diagnostics is important, just make sure you keep customer expectations in check, My advice in terms of board repair, stay away, its a specialty area that is indeed a rabbit hole. I agree with some of the comments above regarding power supplies being something to keep an eye on with graphics issues. I cant tell you how many times I got a new customer with a 550watt PS trying to setup an RTX 3090 and not getting things stable.
Also be wary of the customer that tells you his friend told him how to do it and that he/she knows tons of stuff, the moment you start getting a customer wanting to debate repairs or argue about what is wrong, run, don't walk to the door.

But the one most important thing when taking on new customers, do a power on diagnostic when the customer is there, this is crucial, otherwise you will have folks that say it didn't do that when I brought it in, you broke my pc. I have had that happen and when we go back to the repair order and the power on diagnostic lists the exact issue on the signed work order, they have no ground to stand on.

Also never be afraid to walk away from a job that doesn't pass the smell test, be honest in your appraisals of the situation and if the customer is unhappy know when to step up, and when to step out, if you have to abandon a repair job because the customer is unreasonable, be sure NOT to charge them for the work done already, sure losing labor cost is not ideal, but if no money changes hands they cant say they paid you for a job that you didn't do.

You are there to help, but are not there to be taken advantage of.

Good luck on your new adventure!

 

[bonehead123]

I agree with most of what's already been stated (especially the strong test PSU part), however, you probably already know these things, but in terms of billing, I have found that having my invoices with separate line items & charges for Visual Inspection (should be no charge in most cases), Diagnostics, Repairs, Parts & miscellaneous shop supplies under each category of "Hardware" & "Software"...

I also have check boxes & a customer signature block to indicate acceptance of whether it will be a flat-rate or by the hour service, with the latter stating that everything listed is only an estimate, and that final charges my vary depending on unknown/unforeseen issues that may or may not be encountered...

Also, the minute anyone sets foot in my shop or I go to their office/home, I IMMEDIATELY do the power-on/start-up tests and then take photos of the pc(s) to be worked on, both inside & out, including any identifying marks and ESPECIALLY existing wear & tear or damage...this protects you from rip-off claims and/or scammers who will try to claim that "I had a brand new 4090Ti installed but you gave it back to me with a 5 year old 1060" bullshit....

And as @Morbius2021 said, if anything seems even the least bit fishy or suspect, run, don't walk, away and never look back

 

[Tyler55]

Thank you for the additional replies. The advice and suggestions have been very informative and I very much appreciate all of it.

The only repairs I ever do to gaming computers, is software issues and hard drive replacements. I often get calls from people who said they ordered a bunch of parts, assembled them, and the computer won't power up, or would power up, but have no display. I receive so many of those calls, that it's obvious they ordered incorrect parts, or made errors in the assembly. Either way, I don't think they were qualified to order the correct parts, or assemble them all. It all seems very sketchy.

It's due to that "sketchiness", complexity, rabbit holes, etc, that I don't work on most gaming computer issues. Those could be the very reasons why there is only 1 tech left in my city that does that kind of work, and in speaking with him a few times, he always sounds very stressed out with the work. On a side note, I recently became friends with another tech in my city. Like myself, he doesn't work on gaming computers for the same reasons as I.

With all that said, I'm sorry guys, but I might have jumped the gun on pursuing this. Reason being, the more I learn about it, the more it looks like excessive stress, time, and effort, for very little profit compared to the repairs I do now.

 

[TechBuyingHavoc]

(snip)

And as @Morbius2021 said, if anything seems even the least bit fishy or suspect, run, don't walk, away and never look back

Great advice not just for repair shops but also for customers. If you are getting your PC repaired and the shop does not do the steps that bonehead123 and Morbius2021 are describing before taking your hardware, leave the shop immediately with your PC and go find a more professional repair shop.

If the shop is performing the steps described above, you as the customer should also do the same. Take photos and videos of the PC running at the repair shop itself, with the side panels off.

Formal procedures, recorded evidence, and due diligence are good not just for the business but also the customer.

 

[Frick]

Well, I guess I'll have to get a test unit CPU. Do gaming systems use a standard socket? If so, any recommendation for a test CPU?

A "gaming PC" is just a computer used for gaming, basically, but normally it's just a way for someone to say it's a higher end PC, but it can mean almost anything. Honestly it's quite shocking to me that you ask about CPU sockets, given your 25 years experience.

Anyway, a note about troubleshooting: sometimes you can get seemingly random incompatibilites. It's not common these days, and for stuff like CPUs and stuff it's unheard of, but still. Sometimes stuff just don't work in A but it'll work in B.

 

[Bill_Bright]

DON'T DO IT!!! Except for fun, all your family obligations are covered, and you already are financially set for life!

I've been a self-employed computer technician for approximately 25 years. I wasn't working on gaming systems, but now I'm going to start doing so. I'm looking for some tips and suggestions to get me started. Especially in the hardware diagnostics area.

Only 25 years? Well then I won't hold your obvious youth and lack of experience against you!

I've been a certified master electronics technician for nearly 50 years - starting out maintaining air traffic control radio and navigational-aids electronic systems as my primary [feed, clothe and shelter my family] job. I did that for 24+ years, then I went to work as 1 of 10 hardware techs supporting 400 programmers in a major software company in the "defense Industry" for another 10 years.

On the side, I repaired TVs, audiophile audio reproduction electronics and when home computers came about, I got into custom computers and computer repair. Starting in 2005, I had my own custom PC, computer repair and IT consulting business. We stayed busy. I had two employee techs. Yet most of our business was pulling cables, setting up SOHO networks, and malware removal. In fact, initially, more than 50% of our "walk-in" and "house-call" business was malware related.

Yes, we had some hardware repairs, hardware updates and custom PCs - and for someone who prefers to have a meter probe in one hand and a soldering iron in the other, that was great for me. "Word of mouth" advertising (the best there is) kept us going, and growing.

But what happened? "Enthusiasts" started building and repairing their own gaming rigs, and helping their friends build theirs. Microsoft and Windows became efficient at keeping Windows clean, secure, and running optimally - consequently, lucrative malware removal jobs dwindles to near nothing.

Companies started keeping their existing computers longer. Even newbies learned swapping out a broken PSU, or adding RAM was not hard. Business died off. I had to let my two techs go. My town of 50,000 just didn't generate enough business to sustain my business. That is even true when looking at this entire 1/2 million people metro area.

I still have some old, long-time clients, and of course, neighbors and family - enough to keep my "head in the game" but not enough to "earn a living" (fortunately, I'm retired, its an empty nest, the house is paid for and I don't need the money).

So I can tell you this as fact - all electronics in general, including computer electronics, tend to be extremely reliable today compared to electronics of yesteryear. So "repairs" will not keep your family fed and sheltered.

What that means is, unless you live in a BIG city AND you have an established reputation as a fair, qualified, honest, and reliable technician, it is highly unlikely you will ever make enough money to sustain a family, let alone yourself repairing computers or building custom gaming rigs. This is especially true if your shop is located somewhere other than the basement/garage of your own home, and you have to pay rent on top of things.

There are other factors, besides reliable electronics these days, that make it almost impossible for an individual to support his or her own custom PC and repair business. Overhead (even if run out of your house is huge) is a major expense. This includes business and health insurance, utilities, tools, taxes, permits, licenses, and more.

A HUGE obstacle is your own purchasing power. Dell, Acer, HP can go to ASUS, Crucial, Samsung, NVIDIA, Seasonic and Intel (and Microsoft too) and promise to buy 1,000,000 motherboards, RAM sticks, SSDs, graphics cards, PSUs, CPUs and Windows licenses over the next year. With that promise (contract) they then can demand and get significant volume purchase discounts. Same with cases and monitors, keyboards, mice - maybe speakers and headphones too.

You can't do that. Even if you buy 10 ASUS motherboards at a time, you won't get that sort of discount. Plus, there is no guarantee you will find 9 more customers that want that same board so you end up being stuck with 9 - rapidly growing obsolete, can't sell, boards.

And remember, when it comes to OEM/System Builder Windows licenses, YOU as the system builder are responsible for Windows user support for the first year - unless you are expecting to sell the user the more expensive full Retail licenses - a cost they (nor you) may not want to absorb.

And for the record, that is NOT just my story. There used to be many electronic repair shops here in the Omaha/Council Bluffs metro area. Now there are but a few. Many of my fellow techs I've known throughout the years have encountered the same thing.

@Tyler55 - if you are still hell-bent on doing this, do your homework. Have a business plan. Get a lawyer to help set up your LLC. Learn your liabilities and how to protect you and your family from them. Research what it means, and how to have a small business. Many banks can/will help with this too.

 

[Tyler55]

A "gaming PC" is just a computer used for gaming, basically, but normally it's just a way for someone to say it's a higher end PC, but it can mean almost anything. Honestly it's quite shocking to me that you ask about CPU sockets, given your 25 years experience.

All my experience is with the basic off the shelf OEM systems that are used for basic tasks. I don't much recall the last time I even had to switch out a CPU, but I haven't in the last 20 years or so.

I asked about the CPU / socket simply because I wanted to find out if there was some sort of specialized and standardized socket designed specifically for said high end needs.

Bill Bright,

You've made excellent points regarding the business end of things, and I can relate to much of it.

My city has a population of 98,000. When I started my computer repair business about 25 years ago, there were approximately 15 private techs like myself. Now, there are basically only two left...myself and a guy who has a gaming computer shop in which he builds and repairs. I have the first place position in a generic computer repair search on Google, and he has the second position. The remainder of the search listings are generally I.T. services. In the last few years, my calls for gaming computer repair have gone through the roof. I send that gaming tech around 25 to 30 gaming computers jobs each month.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I send that gaming tech around 25 to 30 gaming computers jobs each month.

You said there are only two left, you and another who has his own shop. So not sure what you mean by, "I send that gaming tech around"? Do you have another tech working for you?

For sure, 25 - 30 jobs a month is nice but is that really enough to sustain a business AND provide enough income to feed and shelter yourself, let alone a family? And pay an employee a living wage too?

Let's say you charge $100 per hour (which is well above the national average of ~$70/hour). Most jobs in my experience take less than 1 hour, but let's assume 1 hour. That's $3000 per month or $36,000 per year - before taxes. Then there are bills and expenses.

The sad part is, it is not about how good a technician one is. It is about the amount of business coming in to sustain the business and pay you a living wage.

 

[Tyler55]

Bill Bright,

To clarify, I repair about 60 computers each month, and I don't have employees. I also get about 25 to 30 calls each month for gaming computer repair. For the gaming repairs, I direct the customer to the one and only shop in my city that repairs gaming computers.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Okay. I am glad your business is doing so well. It is good to see a technician make it these days. Sadly, in many areas, quality techs have no where to go but the Geek Squad or sitting at some Level 1 tech support site where they have no leeway but follow some silly checklist. A total waste of talent.

 

[TechBuyingHavoc]

Bill Bright,

To clarify, I repair about 60 computers each month, and I don't have employees. I also get about 25 to 30 calls each month for gaming computer repair. For the gaming repairs, I direct the customer to the one and only shop in my city that repairs gaming computers.

I see, your current business is about 60 computers monthly and you want to expand into that sub market of 25 gaming PC repair. I still think Bill Bright's concerns about the economics of it apply here but if the money part of the business works for you, more power to you.

I would not invest in being able to repair CPUs. They are already super reliable and to be able to repair these types of issues requires a huge inventory of motherboards and CPUs. It makes no business sense for this.

Now you can charge for installing a CPU on a mobo as long as you can avoid any liability for any issues with the installation. You can charge to refresh the TIM (thermal paste) on the CPU or GPU, as well as any other cooler. You already mentioned that this is not worth the stress, you are probably right.

I don't think there is much difference between gaming PCs and normal PCs when it comes to repair issues. Your normal diagnostic software tools and hardware gear should be sufficient.

 

[Tyler55]

Thank you for the additional replies.

I asked about the CPU because what happens if I get into a situation in which I've narrowed down the problem to the mobo or the CPU? Granted, at that point the chances of the issue being caused by the CPU are very slim, compared to the issue being caused by the motherboard, but I wouldn't know for certain unless I switched out the CPU. I can't tell the customer the issue is with the motherboard because there is a slim chance that the CPU could be at fault. I really don't want the liability of removing the cooler and replacing the CPU, let alone the liability of replacing the whole motherboard. I was going to limit my hardware replacement to the GPU, PSU, ram, and drives.

 

[sepheronx]

The other business side that's better is selling used parts.

For obvious reasons, these days, people are looking for deals. Computers are getting too expensive. I have built gaming rigs around recycled workstations that do wonders and make a small profit just to earn some extra money. But I noticed that I made more by simply selling parts, flipping parts. Workstation motherboards, cpu, ram, etc. Usually have some parts laying around to test the motherboard and then create screen shots and or video as proof.

Bill is right for a lot of what he said, but it all depends on the area. I work for another company that does a lot of repairs of equipment that is more or less just computers. And you will be surprised how little people know how to fix this stuff, even the most basic of issues

Thank you for the additional replies.

I asked about the CPU because what happens if I get into a situation in which I've narrowed down the problem to the mobo or the CPU? Granted, at that point the chances of the issue being caused by the CPU are very slim, compared to the issue being caused by the motherboard, but I wouldn't know for certain unless I switched out the CPU. I can't tell the customer the issue is with the motherboard because there is a slim chance that the CPU could be at fault. I really don't want the liability of removing the cooler and replacing the CPU, let alone the liability of replacing the whole motherboard. I was going to limit my hardware replacement to the GPU, PSU, ram, and drives.

Cheapest method is just build up an inventory of budget crap cpus for motherboards. Aliexpress is a good source of cheap processors. Same with ebay.

Need a cheap am5 processor to test am5 motherboards? AMD Ryzen 7500f

 

[eidairaman1]

Thank you for the additional replies. The advice and suggestions have been very informative and I very much appreciate all of it.

The only repairs I ever do to gaming computers, is software issues and hard drive replacements. I often get calls from people who said they ordered a bunch of parts, assembled them, and the computer won't power up, or would power up, but have no display. I receive so many of those calls, that it's obvious they ordered incorrect parts, or made errors in the assembly. Either way, I don't think they were qualified to order the correct parts, or assemble them all. It all seems very sketchy.

It's due to that "sketchiness", complexity, rabbit holes, etc, that I don't work on most gaming computer issues. Those could be the very reasons why there is only 1 tech left in my city that does that kind of work, and in speaking with him a few times, he always sounds very stressed out with the work. On a side note, I recently became friends with another tech in my city. Like myself, he doesn't work on gaming computers for the same reasons as I.

With all that said, I'm sorry guys, but I might have jumped the gun on pursuing this. Reason being, the more I learn about it, the more it looks like excessive stress, time, and effort, for very little profit compared to the repairs I do now.

Breadboarding does help

 

[Bill_Bright]

I really don't want the liability of removing the cooler and replacing the CPU, let alone the liability of replacing the whole motherboard. I was going to limit my hardware replacement to the GPU, PSU, ram, and drives.

I don't see how you can do that and keep your clients happy, coming back, and most importantly, spreading good words about you.

As a technician for 50 plus years, "troubleshooting" is almost always the most difficult and time consuming part of electronics repair. This is why some shops charge for estimates - then apply that charge to the repair. In many cases, to determine the estimate, you must first troubleshoot the problem. This is totally different than charging a "flat rate" to replace a laptop screen or keyboard, or upgrade RAM as examples.

Note I can replace a bad capacitor faster than it takes for my soldering iron to heat up to temp. But, unless burnt to a crisp and clearly visible, it might take me an hour to troubleshoot down to the specific component that needs replacing.

While computer troubleshooting is rarely down to component level, it still can take considerable amount of time to isolate the problem to a specific subassembly - ESPECAILLY if the problem is intermittent. The time troubleshooting computers is compounded because so much is "hurry up and wait". That is, you do this, then have to connect power and essential components, then attempt boot it up to see what happens. That can take time - especially with hard drives.

So what are you going to do when a client brings in a broken computer? Stop everything else you are doing and start troubleshooting his computer? Or are you going to put his computer in your repair queue and get to it when you can on a FIFO basis - which might be several days later?

And then what? You spend an hour (or longer) troubleshooting, eliminate the graphics solution, RAM, PSU and storage, then decide it "might" be the CPU or it "might" be the motherboard and stop troubleshooting?

And then what? Hand the broken computer back to your client and tell him you can't fix it, to take it elsewhere? After you've had it for a week or longer? Are you going to charge him for that hour? Or eat it? Either scenario results in an unhappy customer and wasted labor hours kills businesses.

And yeah, he'll take it elsewhere, alright. And he will take all his future repair needs elsewhere too! And for sure he will tell his friends where NOT to take their broken computers too.

Remember, "One aw shit wipes out a 1000 attaboys!"

Obviously, you cannot keep a stash of spare motherboards on hand for testing. But a stash of common CPUs is essential - even if it means you may need to sacrifice that CPU in the process of determining a motherboard is bad.

I note spare parts for testing is a big reason I used to collect old electronics. This became more important when I got into computer repair. I used (the genuine) excuse that I would dispose of them properly, through an EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) approved, electronic waste recycling/recovery/disposal center.

Before long, I had at least one working, compatible CPU (and tons of RAM) for just about any motherboard that came in.

 

[Tyler55]

Bill,

I've reconsidered since I wrote that post about motherboard replacement. I will be doing motherboard replacements if needed. In fact, I'm already looking into what CPUs to get as test CPUs, if I've narrowed down the issue to the mobo or CPU.