Slow upgrade of an old gaming PC

[Chrispy_]

combos yes, but some cheap new MB with WARRANTY is way better than used "good" mb which could have some hidden faults which come up later...
cpu and ram yes, but if you find good deals and really working and good condition.

I already covered this.

OP has been out of warranty for over 10 years. I don't think warranty is important, he's spent >90% of his PC's life without warranty.

Ebay has returns policy that favours the buyer. If your item is defective you send it back for automatic refund, the seller won't have any way to dispute this - which is why selling on ebay sucks, and it's why I buy lots of used hardware on ebay.

I genuinely don't think there's any point buying a last gen motherboard "new" with warranty. It's already old, stop overpaying for old stuff if it's easy to find a complete used platform that's tested, working, and has a money-back-guarantee at 1/3rd the price of a new one.

 

[AusWolf]

what we "close" are? even more higher cost gpu with some "AI" crap which isn't useful in games?

We're close to something that will potentially bring current gen prices down a bit.

and you can get 7500F and 5600 RAM cheaper, so...

Absolutely!

 

[Chrispy_]

I do wonder how the Broadwells perform these days... But in some parts of the world (like mine) they are very rare.

Like Kaby Lake at their best (C models) and like Haswell at their worst - so good for their day but distinctly stuck in the old Intel Quad-core era.

If you mean the S2011-3 models, we still have some that haven't died yet, but they're basically relegated to unimportant and non time-sensitive jobs. 6900K and 6850K. They produce rendered frames slower than a Ryzen 1700, so they're close to worthless at this point, despite still being usable.

 

[DirtyDingusMcgee]

Even if you buy a i7-4790K plus a 32 GB DDR3-2133+ kit this system is still eleven years old and will perform accordingly... the WILD and I mean WILD variance in your GPU suggestions (RX 590 - 98% likelihood of an used card being mining trash, GTX 980 - equally ancient and about the same crap OP already has - 1070 Ti - about as far as this system will take, minor bottleneck involved - 2070 - simply a waste of money for a 4790K system) just tells me you are shooting blindly here.

Anyway OP is gone and hasn't come back, I think they probably realized they don't have the funds to commit to any path right now. Good on them.

I was looking at cheap, available hardware. The man asked a question. You've an opinion, and others do to. No reason to be negative.

 

[dgianstefani]

Even if you buy a i7-4790K plus a 32 GB DDR3-2133+ kit this system is still eleven years old and will perform accordingly... the WILD and I mean WILD variance in your GPU suggestions (RX 590 - 98% likelihood of an used card being mining trash, GTX 980 - equally ancient and about the same crap OP already has - 1070 Ti - about as far as this system will take, minor bottleneck involved - 2070 - simply a waste of money for a 4790K system) just tells me you are shooting blindly here.

Anyway OP is gone and hasn't come back, I think they probably realized they don't have the funds to commit to any path right now. Good on them.

Let alone talking about RAIDing SATA SSDs, as if that's appropriate advice.

 

[DaemonForce]

JFC you guys are out there. There are many different approaches to this type of situation. Most of them are a bit stupid because as you see, it's an OLD system.
You guys ever take a semi-recent system, start upgrading this and that only to end up with a somewhat copy of that computer where you can mix and match?
That happened to me on AM3 to AM3+ when I needed a board change, video card, memory change, another video card then finally a CPU.
That's easily the dumbest (most $$$) way to go about it but if you're really stretching money, you can get an appropriate this or that based on expected duty.
One of the reasons I was willing to drop a 7900XT into my current system is just so I don't have to revisit any possible issue related to it for a LONG LONG time.
The moment you build a newer system, maybe carry some components over to expedite the process? None of this stuff is permanent but I guess a lot of you feel that way.

 

[jak_2456]

I know this thread is about upgrading, but I figured a slight overclock might provide a zero-cost "slow upgrade" that OP wants. I know that 4th gen i5s are very OCable and a GPU overclock might boost the performance by a couple percent easily. JayzTwoCents said in one of his old PC videos that if you're still running older hardware, you should at least overclock it as far as possible to get the most performance.

I still agree with everyone else here that OP shouldn't dump a lot of money into their Z87 platform. I used to run an H77 (or Z77, don't remember) PC with a 3rd gen i5 (3570k), 16 GB of dual-channel DDR3-1600, and an RX 480; the CPU caused texture streaming issues in Forza Horizon 5. I ended up selling the MB, CPU, and RAM on eBay and buying a Ryzen motherboard (which I paired with an R5 2600) and 16 GB of dual-channel DDR4-3200; the difference was night and day!

 

[DemonicRyzen666]

On that system if you're playing anything made in the past 6-7 years or so, you can't run it well

Both my GPU's would be 6 years old in a few months they are perfectly fine for1080p.
only some lunatic RT ultra settings they would be slow. & just turning down to high & keeping on RT. I barely notice any difference.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Both my GPU's would be 6 years old in a few months they are perfectly fine for1080p.
only some lunatic RT ultra settings they would be slow. & just turning down to high & keeping on RT. I barely notice any difference.

I have a GTX 1070 Ti here, targeting 1080p 60 is more or less doable on these old cards. But no, it's not just lunatic ultra settings with RT anymore.

The 1060-6GB is like a third of a 4060's performance, and my card is barely a good as a 8 GB 3050, unable to run RT or anything. Lacks HDMI 2.1 port, can't run 120fps on my OLED... yeah, old card and all.

 

[Rafael.luc]

If you mean the S2011-3 models, we still have some that haven't died yet, but they're basically relegated to unimportant and non time-sensitive jobs. 6900K and 6850K. They produce rendered frames slower than a Ryzen 1700, so they're close to worthless at this point, despite still being usable.

LGA 2011-3 have more cores and threads that LGA 1150/51, But there was a clock reduction to reduce the TDP, It is similar to some current multicore notebook processors, but with 3/4x less energy consumption than a 2011 LGA.

The low price of server processors and memories is attractive, but it is not a platform to recommend. Used ATX X99 boards from good manufacturers are expensive, complete workstation not ATX, depend on your country and region and motherboards X99 from China have bios and chiset modified/adapted with questionable durability.

Combos X99 from China (better than Ryzen!) + RX 580 2048SP generated a lot of content on YouTube.

 

[Toothless]

LGA 2011-3 have more cores and threads that LGA 1150/51, But there was a clock reduction to reduce the TDP, It is similar to some current multicore notebook processors, but with 3/4x less energy consumption than a 2011 LGA.

The low price of server processors and memories is attractive, but it is not a platform to recommend. Used ATX X99 boards from good manufacturers are expensive, complete workstation not ATX, depend on your country and region and motherboards X99 from China have bios and chiset modified/adapted with questionable durability.

Combos X99 from China (better than Ryzen!) + RX 580 2048SP generated a lot of content on YouTube.

View attachment 359707

X99 in general is not better than Ryzen systems besides core count and memory bandwidth. They simply do not keep up with single thread and half the time, multithread workloads.

My dual 2698v4 has the same multi core as my 5950x and was double the price. Yes completely different use cases but for the normal consumer is X99 not better.

 

[Waldorf]

If OP had added info about location, many times i have seen microcenter selling MB for less than 100$ if purchased with cpu and/or ram, sometimes even for 1$.

 

[Rafael.luc]

X99 in general is not better than Ryzen systems besides core count and memory bandwidth. They simply do not keep up with single thread and half the time, multithread workloads.

My dual 2698v4 has the same multi core as my 5950x and was double the price. Yes completely different use cases but for the normal consumer is X99 not better.

Better than Ryzen! is a phrase from YouTubers

Other phrases:

-The dreaded XEON, the Ryzen destroyer!
- THE KING OF XEON V3 surpassing I9 and RYZEN
- INTEL XEON (THE SECRET OF XEON PROCESSORS)
- XEON E5 2667 V4 - GOODBYE RYZEN!
- CHEAP XEON COMBO FROM ALIEXPRESS, BETTER THAN i7 and RYZEN 7! ALL ROUND, UNBELIEVABLE!
- XEON 2666 V3 vs RYZEN 5 5600 I DON'T BELIEVE THAT XEON DELIVERED THE SAME FPS

 

[AusWolf]

Better than Ryzen! is a phrase from YouTubers

Other phrases:

-The dreaded XEON, the Ryzen destroyer!
- THE KING OF XEON V3 surpassing I9 and RYZEN
- INTEL XEON (THE SECRET OF XEON PROCESSORS)
- XEON E5 2667 V4 - GOODBYE RYZEN!
- CHEAP XEON COMBO FROM ALIEXPRESS, BETTER THAN i7 and RYZEN 7! ALL ROUND, UNBELIEVABLE!
- XEON 2666 V3 vs RYZEN 5 5600 I DON'T BELIEVE THAT XEON DELIVERED THE SAME FPS

Bullshit YouTube clickbait slogans? Seriously?

 

[Rafael.luc]

Bullshit YouTube clickbait slogans? Seriously?

Video content too

but omit the consumption of these processors, X99 motherboards have generous Power Vcore

 

[Toothless]

Better than Ryzen! is a phrase from YouTubers

Other phrases:

-The dreaded XEON, the Ryzen destroyer!
- THE KING OF XEON V3 surpassing I9 and RYZEN
- INTEL XEON (THE SECRET OF XEON PROCESSORS)
- XEON E5 2667 V4 - GOODBYE RYZEN!
- CHEAP XEON COMBO FROM ALIEXPRESS, BETTER THAN i7 and RYZEN 7! ALL ROUND, UNBELIEVABLE!
- XEON 2666 V3 vs RYZEN 5 5600 I DON'T BELIEVE THAT XEON DELIVERED THE SAME FPS

None of those creators are worth watching if they're going to spew misinformation for views.

 

[AusWolf]

Video content too

View attachment 359726


but omit the consumption of these processors, X99 motherboards have generous Power Vcore

View attachment 359729

Why are you comparing against a 1700X in 2024?

 

[Chrispy_]

LGA 2011-3 have more cores and threads that LGA 1150/51, But there was a clock reduction to reduce the TDP, It is similar to some current multicore notebook processors, but with 3/4x less energy consumption than a 2011 LGA.

I'm not sure where you're getting that info from but it's wrong.

The TDP of 1150/1151 maxed out at 95W for Sandy Bridge and was reduced to 91W until Coffee Lake brought it back up to 95W 7 years later. All of the HEDT parts on LGA 2011-3 parts had an increase to 140W TDP, not a reduction as you're claiming. Even relative to Haswell-E (140W), and Sandy/Ivy-E (130W), the TDP was never reduced during this range of sockets we're discussing.

Boost clocks were marginally lower than Haswell, but that was a Broadwell thing, unrelated to the socket; Broadwell LGA 1151 processors had very similar clocks to their HEDT 2011-3 siblings, despite having far fewer cores to deal with:

Broadwell-E, LGA 2011-3

Broadwell-H, LGA 1150

 

[Vincero]

They had higher TDPs for the HEDT parts on X79/99/299 platforms, but then the chips also sported more cores, more cache, more PCIe lanes and additional memory controller channels... basically there was a lot more of everything going on.

 

[Rafael.luc]

None of those creators are worth watching if they're going to spew misinformation for views.

+ sponsored link in the video, I posted the phrases in an ironic tone, some older processors can surpass an entry-level Ryzen.

Why are you comparing against a 1700X in 2024?

I took it from a video, but the measurements are OK

Ryzen 7 1700x AM4 8C/16T lithography: 14 nm TDP: 95 W
Xeon E5-2660V3 10C/20T lithography: 22 nm TDP: 105 W

The Ryzen with 2 fewer cores and consuming less, achieves the same score,. The differences are greater in consumption compared to the 7 nm lithography Ryzen

I'm not sure where you're getting that info from but it's wrong.

The TDP of 1150/1151 maxed out at 95W for Sandy Bridge and was reduced to 91W until Coffee Lake brought it back up to 95W 7 years later. All of the HEDT parts on LGA 2011-3 parts had an increase to 140W TDP, not a reduction as you're claiming. Even relative to Haswell-E (140W), and Sandy/Ivy-E (130W), the TDP was never reduced during this range of sockets we're discussing.

Boost clocks were marginally lower than Haswell, but that was a Broadwell thing, unrelated to the socket; Broadwell LGA 1151 processors had very similar clocks to their HEDT 2011-3 siblings, despite having far fewer cores to deal with:

Broadwell-E, LGA 2011-3
View attachment 359775

Broadwell-H, LGA 1150
View attachment 359777

I didn't say maximum TDP supported by the socket. What I meant to say is that if the number of cores increases, the clock must be reduced so that the TDP does not become high. (22 nm lithography)

Ex: i7-4790 4° Gen (4C/8T) - base clock: 3.6 GHz, T Boost: 4 GHz TDP: 84W
E5-2660V3 (10C/20T) - base clock: 2.6 GHz, T Boost: 3.3 GHz TDP: 105W

I didn't know I7 (14nm) for LGA LGA 2011-3, These aren't the cheap server Xeons I've seen for sale

 

[Chrispy_]

What I meant to say is that if the number of cores increases, the clock must be reduced so that the TDP does not become high. (22 nm lithography)

I literally posted hard, immutable proof contradicting this exact claim of quad-core Broadwell vs HEDT Broadwell-E, both on the same 14nm lithography.
Not only are the clocks not reduced as you claim they must be, the TDP is also more than doubled - arguably meaning that the TPD does in fact become high.

Even if you mean CPUs within a single market segment, and within an single generation, you're still talking rubbish - the 6, 8, and 10-core Broadwell-E processors boosted to higher clocks than their 4-core Broadwell processors:



I'm not even sure what your original point is, other than to claim clocks went down for X99 CPUs, which is obviously wrong and I've just explained this to you for the second time now.

 

[AusWolf]

+ sponsored link in the video, I posted the phrases in an ironic tone, some older processors can surpass an entry-level Ryzen.

So what if a video is sponsored? It doesn't automatically mean it's worth watching.

I took it from a video, but the measurements are OK

Ryzen 7 1700x AM4 8C/16T lithography: 14 nm TDP: 95 W
Xeon E5-2660V3 10C/20T lithography: 22 nm TDP: 105 W

The Ryzen with 2 fewer cores and consuming less, achieves the same score,. The differences are greater in consumption compared to the 7 nm lithography Ryzen

A newer CPU with fewer cores performs comparably to an older one with more cores. Was this supposed to shock me?

 

[Dr. Dro]

Xeons aren't comparable to Ryzen in performance, there's a reason they are so cheap. Even the Broadwell-EP ones take 14 to 20 cores to do what an old generation Ryzen will do with 6. They are cheap, but they are very much obsolete. I've a 4669 v3 (18C/36T) and a 2680 v4 (14C/28T), and I am not running them in Chinese repurposed boards but an actual refresh wave X99 motherboard I purchased back in 2016 or so - they have roughly the same multicore performance, the Broadwell chip is significantly faster (stacked IPC improvements, 2400 memory support and 500-600MHz higher clocks) for single thread - nowhere near close to a Ryzen 7 1700's single threaded performance. You could maybe perhaps get half way there with a i7-6850K, but the i7 branded unlocked chips aren't as cheap and readily available, meaning you're just wasting time on an old workstation platform like this.

I must reiterate that buying Chinese RX 580, especially these China-exclusive 2048SP is also a waste of time and money. Practically each and every one of them were mining Ethereum for years on end - in fact, if you're dead set in doing that, save time by just throwing your cash in a fire pit, they are going to malfunction due to the battered and bruised recycled hardware - that's when you'll come to this forum beg for help with a BIOS flash thinking it'll save your mined junk.

From the GTX 970, an upgrade that will still see a few years of driver support is a RTX 2060 at a bare minimum.

 

[Rafael.luc]

Not only are the clocks not reduced as you claim they must be, the TDP is also more than doubled - arguably meaning that the TPD does in fact become high.

I claim for 22 nm.

 

[Chrispy_]

I must reiterate that buying Chinese RX 580, especially these China-exclusive 2048SP is also a waste of time and money. Practically each and every one of them were mining Ethereum for years on end - in fact, if you're dead set in doing that, save time by just throwing your cash in a fire pit, they are going to malfunction due to the battered and bruised recycled hardware - that's when you'll come to this forum beg for help with a BIOS flash thinking it'll save your mined junk.

The 2048SP isn't even a 580 - it's a 570 mining card that was salvaged and stuck on a new PCB. The burnt-out-GPUs-on-a-new-PCB horror show from Maxsun and Afox have been covered by numerous Youtube channels at this point. If they aren't secondhand silicon from abused mining rigs, they're likely salvaged from unsold mining-specific SKUs that were unsold inventory as mining cards when the ETH bubble burst.

I have no idea why it's even called a 580 because it has the same base clock and TDP of a 570 (so identical real-world boost clocks as a similarly-cooled RX570). It also has the reduced TMU count of the 570 and the slower 7Gbps memory of the 570.

IT'S AN RX 570 with a dishonest name.