Slow upgrade of an old gaming PC

[Rafael.luc]

Even if you mean CPUs within a single market segment, and within an single generation, you're still talking rubbish - the 6, 8, and 10-core Broadwell-E processors boosted to higher clocks than their 4-core Broadwell processors:

View attachment 359845

I'm not even sure what your original point is, other than to claim clocks went down for X99 CPUs, which is obviously wrong and I've just explained this to you for the second time now.

Ok understood, slightly higher clock with more cores, BUT:

LGA 1150, i7-5775R, 5°, 4C/8T TDP: 60W
LGA 2011 i7-6950X 10C/20T TDP: 140W

 

[Chrispy_]

I claim for 22 nm.

Then you're wrong again because you were talking about 14nm Broadwell, and you quoted me talking about 14nm Broadwell, and you posted a page of AliExpress rubbish that was all X99 (14nm Broadwell).

How are you this bad at forum-ing?!

 

[Dr. Dro]

22 nm and 14 nm will achieve roughly same clocks on LGA2011, Broadwell-EP was built on a very early version of the Intel 14 node. Actually the 22 nm chips such as i7-5960X should clock a little better overall. Xeon SKUs have intentionally limited clocks, with a few exceptions, notably the E5-2687W, E5-1650, E5-1680, and E5-2696 or 2699 v3 and v4 versions.

i7-5775C is a bit of a special case, I don't think it's comparable in all fairness

 

[Rafael.luc]

I must reiterate that buying Chinese RX 580, especially these China-exclusive 2048SP is also a waste of time and money. Practically each and every one of them were mining Ethereum for years on end - in fact, if you're dead set in doing that, save time by just throwing your cash in a fire pit, they are going to malfunction due to the battered and bruised recycled hardware - that's when you'll come to this forum beg for help with a BIOS flash thinking it'll save your mined junk.

From the GTX 970, an upgrade that will still see a few years of driver support is a RTX 2060 at a bare minimum.

RX 470, RX 570 and RX 580 2048SP (AMD code/model for China) These were the most used cards by the Chinese for mining, we cannot recommend refurbished GPUs.

In other countries they use any latest manufactured video card, including LHR GPUs with hack to do mining. It wouldn't make sense to avoid RX 500 series (used from a good manufacturer) which must have suffered less in mining, as they are GDR5 unlike others that use GDR6 which got very hot in mining.

 

[Vincero]

22 nm and 14 nm will achieve roughly same clocks on LGA2011, Broadwell-EP was built on a very early version of the Intel 14 node. Actually the 22 nm chips such as i7-5960X should clock a little better overall. Xeon SKUs have intentionally limited clocks, with a few exceptions, notably the E5-2687W, E5-1650, E5-1680, and E5-2696 or 2699 v3 and v4 versions.

i7-5775C is a bit of a special case, I don't think it's comparable in all fairness

I'll be honest, Broadwell was a bit of a mess anyway back in the day... for the brief amount of time it was around/'current' tech (comparatively).
Thank god Sky lake and LGA 1151/2066 ended that chapter. At least if you're gonna compare 14nm node DT and HEDT chips and platforms, you might aswell compare ones that were released onto new platforms at the time (LGA 2011-3 was already 2 years+ old when Broadwell finally got shoe-horned on to it and Skylake had already been out for nearly a year) and weren't delayed releases and ultimately abandoned as soon as possible.

I think this article from the time sums it up well...
https://www.stonearch.net/2016/06/13/intels-broadwell-e-not-released/

 

[Dr. Dro]

RX 470, RX 570 and RX 580 2048SP (AMD code/model for China) These were the most used cards by the Chinese for mining, we cannot recommend refurbished GPUs.

In other countries they use any latest manufactured video card, including LHR GPUs with hack to do mining. It wouldn't make sense to avoid RX 500 series (used from a good manufacturer) which must have suffered less in mining, as they are GDR5 unlike others that use GDR6 which got very hot in mining.

Ethereum is no longer mined (it changed from proof of work to proof of stake), which is why the used market is just completely swamped with these things. It doesn't matter the memory generation or the core used, any card used for industrial-scale cryptocurrency mining is cooked, and most sourced from private miners are also cooked, despite them swearing on their pinky that the cards are fine. They're all ticking timebombs because they've been used in high-current workloads for extended periods of time at heightened temperatures, which means that the silicon itself is spent.

I'm sure you saw Ronaldo's video on these Chinese cards, he and the other TecLab guys got proof that these cards were all cooked, some going as far as being repainted to try and look new - it's all a big scam.

I'll be honest, Broadwell was a bit of a mess anyway back in the day... for the brief amount of time it was around/'current' tech (comparatively).
Thank god Sky lake and LGA 1151/2066 ended that chapter. At least if you're gonna compare 14nm node DT and HEDT chips and platforms, you might aswell compare ones that were released onto new platforms at the time (LGA 2011-3 was already 2 years+ old when Broadwell finally got shoe-horned on to it and Skylake had already been out for nearly a year) and weren't delayed releases and ultimately abandoned as soon as possible.

I think this article from the time sums it up well...
https://www.stonearch.net/2016/06/13/intels-broadwell-e-not-released/

Yeah it had a few innovative things that got cancelled or didn't pan out, but it was really bad release timing due to delays with 14 nm process, it got launched practically alongside the 6700K and DDR4 memory, those performed a lot better in games, and the 5775C didn't quite catch up with the 4790K at software from that time frame. By the time 5775C's strengths mattered, such as the 128 MB L4 cache (earliest form of "X3D effect" if you ask me), it was too slow to really matter. Still, the 5775C will perform admirably well in some modern games, in some cases catching up to the Comet Lake(!) 10th Gen i5's in performance, check this revisit out:

A Broadwell Retrospective Review in 2020: Is eDRAM Still Worth It?

www.anandtech.com

 

[Vincero]

Yeah it had a few innovative things that got cancelled or didn't pan out, but it was really bad release timing due to delays with 14 nm process, it got launched practically alongside the 6700K and DDR4 memory, those performed a lot better in games, and the 5775C didn't quite catch up with the 4790K at software from that time frame. By the time 5775C's strengths mattered, such as the 128 MB L4 cache (earliest form of "X3D effect" if you ask me), it was too slow to really matter. Still, the 5775C will perform admirably well in some modern games, in some cases catching up to the Comet Lake(!) 10th Gen i5's in performance, check this revisit out:

A Broadwell Retrospective Review in 2020: Is eDRAM Still Worth It?

www.anandtech.com

We are getting way off topic from OP original post, but meh...

That 128MB eDRAM, which was really meant for the Iris Pro graphics, was probably the best thing that ever came out of the Haswell/Broadwell era.
I think Intel missed a trick not carrying it on but cheaper - they could have easily kept the memory channel pathways and just substituted in a high speed DRAM IC such as a commercial GDDR5/6 memory module (they even had ECC ones) - sure it wouldn't have been as fast as the eDRAM IC they had but I bet it would have been a large percentage of the way there - it would have meant their iGPUs would have actually stood a chance and still offered some of that L4 caching of app data when available for that purpose.

 

[Rafael.luc]

Then you're wrong again because you were talking about 14nm Broadwell, and you quoted me talking about 14nm Broadwell, and you posted a page of AliExpress rubbish that was all X99 (14nm Broadwell).

How are you this bad at forum-ing?!

The cheap Xeon processors on Aliexpress are 22nm, they would be discarded by companies and still good for a common home user, the higher consumption is not a problem, as the use is not 24/7.

Broadwell I7 It's for enthusiasts, expensive at launch and expensive to this day.

So what if a video is sponsored? It doesn't automatically mean it's worth watching.

I was being ironic, I didn't affirm or justify anything based on phrases from Youtubers. If the video is sponsored, the content is biased, so you should not consider it.

A newer CPU with fewer cores performs comparably to an older one with more cores. Was this supposed to shock me?

Yes

 

[eidairaman1]

They had higher TDPs for the HEDT parts on X79/99/299 platforms, but then the chips also sported more cores, more cache, more PCIe lanes and additional memory controller channels... basically there was a lot more of everything going on.

Same story for Threadripper/Epyc

 

[AusWolf]

Yes

I'm not shocked by the fact, but I am shocked by your comment. I guess you've never read a single CPU review, and never seen data such as 3900X (12-core) vs 7700X (8-core) performing comparably, either.

 

[Rafael.luc]

I'm not shocked by the fact, but I am shocked by your comment. I guess you've never read a single CPU review, and never seen data such as 3900X (12-core) vs 7700X (8-core) performing comparably, either.

7700X has a Single-core with the highest Score.

 

[AusWolf]

7700X has a Single-core with the highest Score.

Exactly. If you have faster cores, you won't need many of them to catch an older CPU with more cores in MT.

 

[Zach_01]

My old R5 3600 on MT was very close to R7 2700X MT and the R5 3600X was right about the same...
What's new?

 

[Ruru]

I do wonder how the Broadwells perform these days... But in some parts of the world (like mine) they are very rare.

I don't know anyone who has owned one. Seen few users here on TPU years ago who had a BW (not E) chip but that's about it.

There's not even that much videos of those on Youtube when compared to other processor architectures.

 

[gord787]

My old R5 3600 on MT was very close to R7 2700X MT and the R5 3600X was right about the same...
What's new?

The newer Ryzen 5000 series processors offer higher core counts, faster clock speeds, larger L3 caches, and support for PCIe 4.0
This is what they are saying, i dunno if you'll really feel it, as Ryzen 5 3600 and 3600X are still competitive processors for many tasks

 

[AusWolf]

I don't know anyone who has owned one. Seen few users here on TPU years ago who had a BW (not E) chip but that's about it.

There's not even that much videos of those on Youtube when compared to other processor architectures.

I used to have a mobile Broadwell (i7 5500U). It was comparable to Haswell in every sense.

 

[Ruru]

I used to have a mobile Broadwell (i7 5500U). It was comparable to Haswell in every sense.

Did it have the 128MB eDRAM L4 cache? That was a nice booster on Broadwell in overall AFAIK?

The newer Ryzen 5000 series processors offer higher core counts, faster clock speeds, larger L3 caches, and support for PCIe 4.0
This is what they are saying, i dunno if you'll really feel it, as Ryzen 5 3600 and 3600X are still competitive processors for many tasks

Zen2 (not the APUs) supports PCIe 4.0 too

 

[DaemonForce]

Zen2 (not the APUs) supports PCIe 4.0 too

You know, I'm starting to wonder about this part because it's the heart of the one system where I WANT to initialize a 7900XT and it just doesn't happen.
When I go to PCPartPicker and punch in any combination of the R5 3600 with the X570 TUF, it proceeds to immediately shit the bed with a warn bang:

I was sold on this combination back in 2019 because new generation of entry level CPU, of out of the box compatibility with X570, PCI-E g4 and g4x4 NVME RAID.
When I go to the Pro or any other board, the warn disappears. Is there something about this combination that I need to know about?
To clarify, my board shipped with the 0807 BIOS and I don't know of anyone that caught any earlier builds so the information there makes zero sense. Wat do?

 

[Ruru]

You know, I'm starting to wonder about this part because it's the heart of the one system where I WANT to initialize a 7900XT and it just doesn't happen.
When I go to PCPartPicker and punch in any combination of the R5 3600 with the X570 TUF, it proceeds to immediately shit the bed with a warn bang:

View attachment 360244

I was sold on this combination back in 2019 because new generation of entry level CPU, of out of the box compatibility with X570, PCI-E g4 and g4x4 NVME RAID.
When I go to the Pro or any other board, the warn disappears. Is there something about this combination that I need to know about?
To clarify, my board shipped with the 0807 BIOS and I don't know of anyone that caught any earlier builds so the information there makes zero sense. Wat do?

I'm 99.99% certain that it's just a bug or something with PCPP. X570 should work with PCIe 4.0 mode without any problems with CPUs supporting PCIe 4.0.

 

[AusWolf]

Did it have the 128MB eDRAM L4 cache? That was a nice booster on Broadwell in overall AFAIK?

Nah. Only the C and R models had it as far as I know. Maybe that's why my experience was so Haswell-like.

 

[Zach_01]

The newer Ryzen 5000 series processors offer higher core counts, faster clock speeds, larger L3 caches, and support for PCIe 4.0
This is what they are saying, i dunno if you'll really feel it, as Ryzen 5 3600 and 3600X are still competitive processors for many tasks

They were talking about if it’s shocking or not for a newer CPU with less cores (example 6core) to be performing the same as the previous gen one with more cores (8cores) in multi threading.

And of course it’s not shocking. It happened a few times in past. That was my example…

 

[gord787]

They were talking about if it’s shocking or not for a newer CPU with less cores (example 6core) to be performing the same as the previous gen one with more cores (8cores) in multi threading.

Oh, my bad.

 

[gord787]

Zen2 (not the APUs) supports PCIe 4.0 too

Is that so, Interestingly enough I wasn't aware of this..