The State of Cryptocurrency

[FordGT90Concept]

In a ponzi, one must actively pilfer profits from the bottom rung poor, and that is not what I see in crypto.

The value of all of the crypto fell by ~70% in a period of two months. The "bottom rung" was "pilfered."

Certainly not the miners. Which is the exact reason mining is not a ponzi. Miners' investments are in hardware. Not the scheme itself.

Electricity is the product that cryptocurrency Ponzi deals in. Hardware is your buy-in.

 

[moproblems99]

Electricity is the product that cryptocurrency Ponzi deals in. Hardware is your buy-in.

That's not accurate. None of the miners' investment ever makes it the ponzi to pay other investors. Mining cannot be a ponzi.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Except you're doing the work of the ICO author (Ponzi).

 

[moproblems99]

Except you're doing the work of the ICO author (Ponzi).

So are you saying nearly every employee/employer relationship is akin to a ponzi scheme? That the world functions off many ponzi schemes? They are doing the work of the authors (employers). They have to invest in houses and cars to get them there.

 

[R-T-B]

The value of all of the crypto fell by ~70% in a period of two months. The "bottom rung" was "pilfered."

It was still up 400% from the previous year though?

If it's a ponzi, it's a rather bad one. And by the logic that a legal investment scheme that can lose the bottom investor money is a "ponzi" so is the stock market then. That... doesn't really work... legally speaking.

So are you saying nearly every employee/employer relationship is akin to a ponzi scheme? That the world functions off many ponzi schemes? They are doing the work of the authors (employers). They have to invest in houses and cars to get them there.

lol, I think that's the logical conclusion of this line of thought, yes.

 

[moproblems99]

lol, I think that's the logical conclusion of this line of thought, yes.

To be fair, it often feels like my efforts are fruitless and I can never come out on top, lol

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Since you both apparently missed it: Investor Alert: Ponzi Schemes Using Virtual Currencies

 

[moproblems99]

Since you both apparently missed it: Investor Alert: Ponzi Schemes Using Virtual Currencies

Did you read it?

We are concerned that the rising use of virtual currencies in the global marketplace may entice fraudsters to lure investors into Ponzi and other schemes in which these currencies are used to facilitate fraudulent, or simply fabricated, investments or transactions. The fraud may also involve an unregistered offering or trading platform. These schemes often promise high returns for getting in on the ground floor of a growing Internet phenomenon.

Pretty sure that is saying that the currencies are being used to facilitate the transactions not that the currencies themselves are the actual scheme. Though, I would surmise that a few of the coins probably can be classified as one if you looked hard enough. But, this still doesn't point to the act of mining as ponzi.

Also, you did not respond to my last question:

So are you saying nearly every employee/employer relationship is akin to a ponzi scheme? That the world functions off many ponzi schemes? They are doing the work of the authors (employers). They have to invest in houses and cars to get them there.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I'm aware of what it says. Realize that the Treasury was producing legal tender in the USA for centuries before Ponzi had a brilliant idea how to exploit people.

None of the ICOs have reached full maturity yet. The oldest isn't even a decade old. We've already seen a number of schemes that drain people's cryptocurrency wallets. More will come. Will any reach the scale of Ponzi's scheme? I think we'll find out when ICOs reach full maturity.

Ponzi was never a market, by the way. That said, cryptocurrencies possess a lot of features of a Ponzi scheme. It's hugely unregulated (#3), people that participate in the market aren't licensed (#4), there's issues with liquidity when exchanges get hammered (#6), and because it's entirely speculative there's high returns with little risk so long as you hold long enough (#1).

 

[R-T-B]

I'm aware of what it says. Realize that the Treasury was producing legal tender in the USA for centuries before Ponzi had a brilliant idea how to exploit people in the market.

So yeah, that's irrelevant to the point we are trying to make. If anything, you are pointing out dollars are also used for Ponzis?

None of the ICOs have reached full maturity yet. The oldest isn't even a decade old. We've already seen a number of schemes that drain people's cryptocurrency wallets. More will come. Will any reach the scale of Ponzi's scheme? I think we'll find out when ICOs reach full maturity.

We openly admitted some ICOs may qualify. All of them? As in, mining in general?

No, sorry. Just no.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

So are you saying nearly every employee/employer relationship is akin to a ponzi scheme? That the world functions off many ponzi schemes? They are doing the work of the authors (employers). They have to invest in houses and cars to get them there.

Ponzi schemes have very clear legal definitions. You clearly clicked the link so you should be familiar with those are.

We openly admitted some ICOs may qualify. All of them? As in, mining in general?

No, sorry. Just no.

How do you know that 75% of the BTC wallets aren't held by one individual, or a group of individuals that effectively control the market? Who is in the best position to do that? The people that created the ICO.

Some aren't like I doubt the one associated with MasterCard isn't because the SEC would destroy MasterCard if they even considered it.

 

[R-T-B]

The people that created the ICO.

Except bitcoin wasn't an ICO.

 

[dorsetknob]

Oh sh-itcoin! Crypto-dosh swap-shop Coinbase empties punters' bank accounts
Says sorry for 'poor experience', vows to pay back missing cash

Sensational story Here
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/16/coinbase_error/

"Excerpt"

Digital currency exchange Coinbase said it inadvertently charged punters for transactions they never made, effectively draining money from their bank accounts. It has promised to refund the money taken.

For the last few days, netizens have been complaining that funds had vanished from bank accounts linked to Coinbase without reason. Some people report multiple charges being made that drained their accounts and left them with heavy overcharge fees and the inability to pay bills and rent.

 

[R-T-B]

Oh sh-itcoin! Crypto-dosh swap-shop Coinbase empties punters' bank accounts
Says sorry for 'poor experience', vows to pay back missing cash

Sensational story Here
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/16/coinbase_error/

"Excerpt"

Digital currency exchange Coinbase said it inadvertently charged punters for transactions they never made, effectively draining money from their bank accounts. It has promised to refund the money taken.

For the last few days, netizens have been complaining that funds had vanished from bank accounts linked to Coinbase without reason. Some people report multiple charges being made that drained their accounts and left them with heavy overcharge fees and the inability to pay bills and rent.

Coinbase is one of the biggest providers and most stable. It'll be interesting to see how they deal with this. It should be a benchmark for what a legit exchange will do in a hack or error type situation.

My account looks fine, at any rate.

 

[verycharbroiled]

Coinbase is one of the biggest providers and most stable. It'll be interesting to see how they deal with this. It should be a benchmark for what a legit exchange will do in a hack or error type situation.

My account looks fine, at any rate.

mines fine too.

however i had setup a separate bank account just for coinbase as i didnt want my main bank accounts linked to it. did it mainly so if a hacker got into my coinbase account the damage would be limited, or if coinbase went wild or something (which i did not think would happen but hey.. it did).

anyway i leave very little in that bank account and very little on coinbase. i just move fiat or coins in and out as needed to buy or sell and most of my coins are from mining anyway so its mostly selling.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

The miners are the bulk of the pyramid while the ICO operators are at the top pulling the strings. The miners only get paid enough to stay interested while the operators cash out at the peak (and trigger a crash).

Traditional Miners don't have to sell a single coin they mine. When I mined I held the majority of my coins and sold some to balance my operating costs.

 

[yotano211]

mines fine too.

however i had setup a separate bank account just for coinbase as i didnt want my main bank accounts linked to it. did it mainly so if a hacker got into my coinbase account the damage would be limited, or if coinbase went wild or something (which i did not think would happen but hey.. it did).

anyway i leave very little in that bank account and very little on coinbase. i just move fiat or coins in and out as needed to buy or sell and most of my coins are from mining anyway so its mostly selling.

Very good idea, I tell everyone I know to have a set up like that.

I have a serparte bank account for each supplier that I have for a business. I have over 10 bank accounts, and only keep my main money in a checking account that has no debit card attach to it. I have a other account that I buy my daily stuff with, only has $1-3k at most. Coinbase has its own account with a 0 balance.

 

[roccor777]

Don't forget the fact that it was invented to be used as a currency, not as a investment

 

[yotano211]

Don't forget the fact that it was invented to be used as a currency, not as a investment

yes

 

[Boatvan]

I bought roughly 75 bucks worth of Bitcoin last may that turned into roughly 900 bucks. I reinvested most into XRP.

Buying and selling crypto is fun and all, but way too volatile to call it an investment. I got lucky.

People invest money into mining hardware and the next big crypto. I for one get more enjoyment investing in and using my hardware to crunch.

 

[silkstone]

I bought roughly 75 bucks worth of Bitcoin last may that turned into roughly 900 bucks. I reinvested most into XRP.

Buying and selling crypto is fun and all, but way too volatile to call it an investment. I got lucky.

People invest money into mining hardware and the next big crypto. I for one get more enjoyment investing in and using my hardware to crunch.

Very nice. I had about $75 of bitcoin back in 2012 that turned into $0 after the exchange went down. I got very unlucky

 

[trog100]

it wus Visa after all.. coinbase is Innocent.. ouch.. he he

http://bitcoinist.com/visa-owns-up-...coinbase-isnt-to-blame-for-draining-accounts/

trog

 

[verycharbroiled]

i would like to hear that directly from visa instead of a joint post on a coinbase blog. not saying its not trues but id rather hear it from the horses mouth so to speak,

interesting none the less.

i wasnt affected, but i have a dedicated bank account linked to coinbase and its only for coinbase, plus no cards are linked t it. no way i would link a day to day usage account to an exchange.

those affected poor sots who had their main (only?) account linked sure got stuffed royally on that. they will get their erroneous withdrawals reimbursed, but i wonder how overdrafts, bounced check fees and such that happened to those whos accounts went negative or suddenly could not cover monthly ( or whatever) payments because of it will be reimbursed? last i read coinbase said "talk to your bank" about it.

 

[trog100]

i would like to hear that directly from visa instead of a joint post on a coinbase blog. not saying its not trues but id rather hear it from the horses mouth so to speak,

interesting none the less.

i want affected, but i have a dedicated bank account linked to coinbase and its only for coinbase, plus no cards are linked t it. no way i would link a day to day usage account to an exchange.

those affected poor sots who had their main (only?) account linked sure got stuffed royally on that. they will get their erroneous withdrawals reimbursed, but i wonder how overdrafts, bounced check fees and such that happened to those whos accounts went negative or suddenly could not cover monthly ( or whatever) payments because of it will be reimbursed? last i read coinbase said "talk to your bank" about it.

the anti crypto brigade where quick to pounce on a nice piece of cryto fud.. both sides blame the other side.. coinbase gets the blames because its crypto cos it couldnt possibly be visa.. he he

my day to day visa debit is linked to coinbase but i havnt bought any crypto lately.. .. i am guessing here but i think its maybe connected to banks banning crypto buying via credit cards.. debit cards being okay.. credit cards not okay..

i have no reason to doubt the veracity of the article.. at least no more than everything i read.. but as you say such a f-ck up will have caused some folks big problems..

trog

 

[dorsetknob]

the anti crypto brigade where quick to pounce on a nice piece of cryto fud..

I Have no Agenda /like/dislike Regarding Crypto
If i See an Item and it may be of Interest to Fellow TPU'ers and as far is i can see no one else has linked/reported that Item then i am quite happy to post said links/story
what the members here make of said Items is in itself Interesting