The unsatisfying state of air cooling solutions on the market (Case/GPU/NT) - idea as pic

[eidairaman1]

Wouldn't that be nice. Sadly in a market driven by mass manufacturing, cutting costs is the basis of almost all designs.

Yeah sad that practicality, prudence, common sense goes out the door. I mean for example an access door or a drain coupling on a wash machine would make fixing prblems easier overall, or smoothing out sharp edges so injuries dont occur etc etc.

 

[mtcn77]

It would be nice if Engineers thought about how to make stuff easier to maintain and be much more reliable/dependable without them always thinking on the cheap (not aimed at you specifically but majority of engineers think on the cheap)

Breaking into new markets is always harder than serving the same community, me thinks. You cannot just rant about more robustness without introducing novelty of some kind, why not the one that eases the facility.

 

[eidairaman1]

View attachment 145559

Just like the welder proverb.

Anyways back on topic lol.

Until freon compressors can be miniaturized or liquid CO2 can be used in a closed loop system for cooling electronics passively we will always have the laws of physics governing us.

I mean electronics have resistance/ capacitive/inductive reactance.

 

[freeagent]

Just like the welder proverb.

Same goes for machining

 

[eidairaman1]

Same goes for machining

Let me know if you need any help with GPU flashes even lol

 

[Bill_Bright]

Or you can just move so much air that it cools that warm air before it leaves the case

Exactly. And how is that accomplished? Through good case cooling!

We should never stop innovation. Just because something is good enough, doesn't mean it can't be improved.

OMG! Who ever said there is no room for improvement? NOBODY said or implied that on either side of this discussion. So you joined this thread just to make accusations and innuendos about something never said??? Wow. That is pathetic!

Since clearly you joined just for the sole purpose of criticising me, are you seriously going to claim that case cooling does not affect CPU cooling? Because I am saying it has a major impact. If you oppose me, you claim it doesn't. So pick a side, ZenZimZaliben. Or step out.

 

[freeagent]

Let me know if you need any help with GPU flashes even lol

Definitely, thank you sir

 

[Bill_Bright]

And yet the arguing continues....

Hey! You are the one who jumped in just to criticize. Did you expect me to just roll over?
No one on your side is backing up your claims - instead, all they do is launch personal attacks. You claim I am wrong. Fine. The explain how case cooling does not affect CPU cooling. You implied I claimed there was no need for innovation or improvements. I say that clearly is NOT TRUE. Show us where I am wrong and where I suggested anything of the sort. Do that and I will humbly apologize to all.

 

[freeagent]

Just wanted to say, I had my 120x38s in my Define R4, and performance was great. But in a tiny Meshify C and those same 120x38s, its almost crazy. In my avatar you can see how close they come to my Le Grand Macho RT. Its like having push/double pull. With those fans at 12v, they will let my TY143 rev to 2600rpm. No resistance of air flow through that cooler

If you like crazy fans, I highly recommend a case like it, or the same one. I didn't want to say the same one but that's what I meant.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I also have a Define F4. Great case. Great cooling options. Great included fans. And very very quiet.

 

[freeagent]

See, I didn't think the fans were that great.. they are ok, but nothing that I would call fantastic. Definitely better than a poke in the eye with a dull stick though.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I think there are better after market fans. But in terms of fans that come included with cases, I think they are some of the best. I know with my R4, I cannot hear them at all. The only way I know they are spinning is by looking through the side panel window, or feeling for air movement out the back.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

I think there are better after market fans. But in terms of fans that come included with cases, I think they are some of the best. I know with my R4, I cannot hear them at all. The only way I know they are spinning is by looking through the side panel window, or feeling for air movement out the back.

Well for a start I think too many cases have no option sold that has every reasonable fan fitted. Most are sold with two for three main fixing point.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Well for a start I think too many cases have no option sold that has every reasonable fan fitted. Most are sold with two for three main fixing point.

This is true, but not sure it is fair to criticize the case makers. If they had versions with every reasonable configuration, the logistics needed to configure, market, and maintain inventory would be very costly, not only for the case maker, but for the retailers too. I note for me, my R4 supports 1 x 140mm and 1 x 120/140mm in front. 1 x 140mm on the side panel. 1 x 140mm on the rear. 1 x 120/140mm on the bottom. And 2 x 120/140mm top positions or 240/280mm radiators up top. That would be a lot of different models.

I am just happy it provides all those option where I can add extra cooling as I choose - and by using fans from makers I choose too.

 

[freeagent]

I think there are better after market fans. But in terms of fans that come included with cases, I think they are some of the best. I know with my R4, I cannot hear them at all. The only way I know they are spinning is by looking through the side panel window, or feeling for air movement out the back.

I suppose so.. I did use them for a while and they weren't as bad as the ones I have in it now

Its for my kid now, and he likes the blue fans

But I don't. Well, I do only because he does. He will be eight this April.

I think I treated myself to that R4 when he was a week old

 

[Bill_Bright]

Blue? Hmm, mine are black with white blades. Not exactly crazy about the white blades but my case is not lit up so no big deal. And I have to admit, during visual inspections, it is easy to see that they are spinning.

 

[freeagent]

Yeah like I said earlier, I have the fans from my old stacker 830 in there. He likes the blue lights. As much as I don’t need RGB, my next build will probably have a ton because of my kids..

 

[95Viper]

Alright, everyone has had fun.
Get back on topic.
No more pokes at each other.

Thank You.

 

[NoJuan999]

Personally I am quite satisfied with my current rigs cooling performance.
I have a Scythe Ninja 5 cooler on a 3700x in a Rosewill Rise full tower case.
I have 3 120 mm front intake fans, a 140 mm top fan and a 120mm and 80 mm rear exhaust fans.

I understand your desire for better cooling but in my case I just don't see the necessity for any more cooling/airflow than I already have..

 

[firejohn]

Another problem with the standard Layout of NT and if there are air-holes under it, it will suck a part of its own warm air again into itself - a loop:

 

[sneekypeet]

Another problem with the standard Layout of NT and if there are air-holes under it, it will suck a part of its own warm air again into itself - a loop:
View attachment 145644

Grab some poster board or cardboard, and painters tape, cut some panels, and try it out.

 

[Grog6]

There are some basic limits on air cooling.

The CPU plate design, the Heat Pipe number and diameter, and the fin plate area are the variables, with the fans being less so.

As a comparison, years ago, I used a 120V 120mm fan that would push 250CFM at high static pressure.

On a very good Thermalright cooler, that frankly works better than the AIO I replaced it with, it made 3 degrees of difference.
Airflow over a certain amount isn't going to cool more, you're just stirring air.
You want turbulence, as laminar flow across your fins won't cool at all, really.

The Thermalright cooler is nice, and has 6x 8mm heatpipes.
I personally think this is about the max cooling for this number of heatpipes, and the surface area of the fins is obviously adequate for the design, as the airflow didn't make a huge difference.
You can only move so much heat with that size and number of pipes.

I'd love to see a 6x 10mm heat pipe design, but the fact they don't exist makes me think that that tech has hit a wall.

Liquid cooling seems to be required to move more than 200W, and keep the cpu under 80C at 4+GHz.

I'd love to have someone prove me wrong.

 

[freeagent]

There are some basic limits on air cooling.

The CPU plate design, the Heat Pipe number and diameter, and the fin plate area are the variables, with the fans being less so.

As a comparison, years ago, I used a 120V 120mm fan that would push 250CFM at high static pressure.

On a very good Thermalright cooler, that frankly works better than the AIO I replaced it with, it made 3 degrees of difference.
Airflow over a certain amount isn't going to cool more, you're just stirring air.
You want turbulence, as laminar flow across your fins won't cool at all, really.

The Thermalright cooler is nice, and has 6x 8mm heatpipes.
I personally think this is about the max cooling for this number of heatpipes, and the surface area of the fins is obviously adequate for the design, as the airflow didn't make a huge difference.
You can only move so much heat with that size and number of pipes.

I'd love to see a 6x 10mm heat pipe design, but the fact they don't exist makes me think that that tech has hit a wall.

Liquid cooling seems to be required to move more than 200W, and keep the cpu under 80C at 4+GHz.

I'd love to have someone prove me wrong.

Thermalright makes a 7x 6mm piped cooler, the Le Grand Macho RT, and they also have a 6x 8mm piped cooler called True Spirit 140 Power. Both of them are excellent, and wouldn’t hesitate to recommend one to anyone.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Another problem with the standard Layout of NT and if there are air-holes under it, it will suck a part of its own warm air again into itself - a loop:

The warm air, being "warmer" than the surrounding air, is immediately going to start to rise. So I think any heat that might get pulled back in from below would be negligible. The fan is expelling that heated air with force out the back and away from the case. And being warmer than the surrounding exterior air, it will rise further away from the bottom intake.

Plus, the bottom air, already cooler, is being pulled in from all directions under the case, not just from the rear. And any warmer air from the rear that does make it down that way is going to have a chance to cool down some too, and then it will have to mix with the rest of the cool air coming in from the other directions, cooling it down further.

So I don't see there being any type of significant "loop" unless the exhausted air was somehow getting directed back towards and down under the case. Even if the exhausted air was hitting a wall, only a small portion would be bounced back, and down. And in that event anyway, there hopefully would be an intake filter there so at least it would be clean air being drawn back in.

NEVERTHELESS, most the intake air will be cool as opposed to top mounted PSUs which draw all their intake air from inside the case where it has already been heated up by the components inside.

So even if there is some warm air getting "looping" back in, being a bottom mounted PSU is still a better option, especially if it has its own cool air intake vent. Plus, PSUs are heavy so bottom mounted PSUs will lower the center of gravity. The may be beneficial in tall tower cases when lugging it outside for cleaning or if you have rugrats running around.