TPU's Space Sims Appreciation Thread

[Conti027]

In Elite: Dangerous today I interdicted someone and ended up helping them hunt down some bounties since they had a hard time getting the kill in combat.

 

[bubbleawsome]

Subbing. With all my interest in these games I didn't notice this thread.
I'll add that I own KSP and Space Engineers. KSP is fun. I don't play it as often as my other games, but back in the 0.14 versions I played a lot more. It's still cool, I've just moved a bit. Space engineers is meh IMO. I rarely play it, though my little brother plays it more. I don't know, it seems a bit too 'minecraft' for me. Ironic since I've logged hundreds or maybe even a thousand hours on minecraft since mid 2012.

My goals also keep increasing. Earlier this month I was eying SC. Now ED is #1. What goes best with ED? A HOTAS obviously. How do you make it even better? Get an occulus consumer kit once they come out. Oh, now you want to play it maxed out and 120fps? Buy a 980!

It's like when you go to fix a small thing on your car or house and end up spending $300-$500.

Cheers!

 

[Kursah]

I own both KSP and Space Engineers. The kids play KSP, and I've yet to really try Space Engineers. But I've heard good things about both..and what little I've spent with KSP was pretty fun...but just not my cup of tea when I feel the need for combat and exploration.

I can say for now @bubbleawsome, keep it simple. You might be impressed with how well ED, and SC and EvoMerc all handle with a KB + Mouse...some of the best pilots in timed competitions use that combo...it's actually kind of surprising. There's a fair mix of HOTAS, Joystick, Gamepad and KB + Mouse. Pick your tools to bring death upon your enemies. They all must play well...I used a gamepad in Evochron Legends for a looooong time...it worked okay...was much better in Freespace 2 Open which was more arcadey in controls.

Keep us posted on what you end up getting! See you out on the frontier.

 

[Kursah]

Played some EvoMerc tonight in celebration for acing my exam today.

Best I've ever done in combat with that title, and I attribute that to my time in Elite Beta. Both feel very similar...but Evo just adds an extra layer of challenge to the flight model...but it feels good, sharp, refined imho.

So I decided that I want to leave the control scheme that I use with EvoMerc and Elite: Dangerous alone as both are very similar overall...and fix Star Citizen's. Using the in-game control editing sucks...flat out. I can change the axis just fine...that's half the battle. The other half is what helps so much in both EvoMerc and Elite...that is using the HAT switch for strafing up/down/left/right. It's so useful in Elite, critical in Evo and when I tried it out with the wonky issues in SC it helped out as well...but I want clean testing.

It seems I can make changes, but I can't remove a bind...and if I use a button to bind something else...like say the hat switch for strafing...that direction still keeps its original predefined binding. It appears I can make changes at the file-level following these links:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...ugh-how-to-configure-joystick-throttle-pedals
http://www.burri-web.org/cassini/SCJMapper.html
http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Controls

And I probably will end up making the changes I need that way...just frustrating that I cannot remove a bind. So I ask TPU, if you know the trick, please let me know...if it's do-able then I concede that I might have to stop drinking and modifying the controls in this title! I'd rather not though!

 

[D007]

I'm just kind of twiddling my thumbs still Star Citizen is in a playable, persistent state.
In the mean time, I have Kerbal space program and Lunar flight for my space fix.
If that doesn't cut it I have Shattered horizon, Take on Mars and Universe sandbox.

 

[Kursah]

I know this is old hat to some of you... and I am finally getting caught up on all my news.

Elite Newsletter #48 states December 16th is the official release date and Nov 22nd is the launch of Gamma and the end of preorder w/beta access. If you want in beta or gamma, you have until the 22nd to get onboard. It's been an amazing ride thus far.

I'm also looking forward to planetary landings, and hope they do a good job with it, I enjoy seamless planetary landings in EvoMerc but have always wanted more detail and larger scale sized planets so there could be canyon races, exploration, settlements, etc.

With that said, I haven't gone any further with SC controls...I keep running out of patience for that sh!t and just playing EvoMerc or Elite. Don't get me wrong, the flight model feels so much more fun to me, modifying the control scheme to my liking is severely flawed still...which yes I realize it's pre-alpha...but with all that fund-age and the staff behind this, make it someone's damn responsibility to fix this part...better luck next patch.

 

[Kursah]

What's up folks? I'm having a drink and taking a break from homework for a bit to browse my favorite place on the web. I happened to find news on a couple of my favorite space sims. Both Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous have updates/announcements this week.

Let's start with some news that I am reacting to now, so my apologies if I'm behind the curve. Star Citizen is now patchable to 0.9.2.1!

Highlights of this update are:

• 315p flyable in AC
• Flare item added
• All 300 variants pilotable.
• Weapons adjustments
• Control adjustments
• All sorts of control, audio and graphics fixes.
• Read more HERE

I currently am downloading the patch and have 2147.51MB left, and am downloading at a paltry 150KB/s, though this is of no surprise when patching SC. Seems the patching speed almost is always slow. No worries, I have plenty to keep me entertained until it's complete!

Up next? My current favorite, Elite: Dangrous has some big news coming as well. Sure the official release is around 12/16/2014. But between now and then is A LOT of work to be done. Frontier just released Newsletter #49, and it's well worth the read!

Highlights are:

• Beta 3.9 Drops Next Thursday!!! 11/20/2014!
• Only 8 more days to become a Beta backer, and be able to play beta and gamma releases prior to the release date.
• Only 8 more days to have the benifits that a beta backer is privy to, such as 25% off in-game ship insurance and free access to one of the five new ships when released!
• All sorts of good and exciting thing to read about HERE!!!

I have really enjoyed playing Elite. It is one of those games that pulls at me when I am doing my best to stay responsible and get my responsible adult stuff done. The kids don't make it any easier, asking to see more "epic space battles where you get blown up!".

I have enjoyed being able to break interdiction as well..and I am extremely happy to be a beta backer for this title.

Of course sometimes when the server is being a pain in the ass, I revert back to good ol' Evochron Mercenary. A game I feel gets far too little love for what it has provided for the last several years. Playing Elite has improved my skills in EvoMerc GREATLY. And while its not as fun, it's more of a challenge to fly in, and it is much faster to get into the action. I do love being able to align and hyperspace glide right into a space station to dock and grab the next mission.

But the more I play the AAA SC and ED, the more I appreciate EvoMerc as a one-man indie title and all it offers, and I hope it continues to be supported. If you are on a tighter budget and want an excellent space sim, there really isn't anything better imho. If you have the $$$ and want the best GFX and SFX ever, well then there are two other excellent options. I recommend all 3, and all comfortably have their places in the space sim genre.

Alright..well, my drink is polished off, homework is looming, and I am going to get shit done in the hopes I can make some time to get a few kills, deaths and trades in!

 

[Ahhzz]

.....
But the more I play the AAA SC and ED, the more I appreciate EvoMerc as a one-man indie title and all it offers, and I hope it continues to be supported. If you are on a tighter budget and want an excellent space sim, there really isn't anything better imho. .....

Just had to say again, Amen to that!!

 

[Kursah]

I don't know why I didn't notice this before, but....

X-Wing and Tie Fighter are on GOG.com!!!!!

They were $10 ea, but I didn't even blink at that...worth it in my book...had to have them. Kids and I spent a little bit this afternoon playing Tie Fighter on their gaming rig (see sig) with Windows 8.1 x64 using an X-box 360 controller WITHOUT configuring a thing. Was pretty damn good. These two games area really why I love the genre so much. Made me remember the old Gravis Joystick I had to fly around.

The games would not launch without a game controller device. The downloads are tiny (about 100MB for X-Wing and just over 200MB for Tie Figher). They both play quite nicely, Tie Fighter appears to play full screen.. x-wing is stuck in a square box...but still do-able and allowed for being a game from the early-mid 90's that is playable on a Windows 8.1 x64 rig with 0 config from the user. Good job to the folks that made this possible.

For anyone interested, and how could you not be...here is links:

X-Wing: http://www.gog.com/game/star_wars_xwing_special_edition

Tie Fighter: http://www.gog.com/game/star_wars_tie_fighter_special_edition

No XW vs TF yet...but I'm sure that'll come too.

I spent my most time in Tie Fighter, especially when I was able to create my own missions and download other's missions as well.

Also found out today that Freespace 2's FSOLauncher is updated yet again so there is 0 manual installs with the latest versions of the Open mod and its related goodies. Freespace 2 is on GOG and Steam, and is more arcadey flying....but it was a blast and is great for fast combat in space. Going to give it a run here shortly.

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=87537.0

Enjoy folks! I'll be back to EvoMerc, Elite Dangerous and Star Citizen soon enough. But I'm gonna get my classic space sim on for a little bit.

Edit:

Special shout out to the entire Wing Commander series as well being on GOG.com! Always fun to take out some Kilrathi and laugh at Mark Hammil in the live-action scenes.

http://www.gog.com/game/wing_commander_3_heart_of_the_tiger

 

[ste2425]

Been playing space engineers of late. Some of the things you can build with it look fantastic. However it's such a steep learning curve (for me at least) to just build a simple structure,never mind adding moving parts that its put me off.

 

[RCoon]

Been playing space engineers of late. Some of the things you can build with it look fantastic. However it's such a steep learning curve (for me at least) to just build a simple structure,never mind adding moving parts that its put me off.

It took me almost 70 hours, including work from two friends, to learn to build ships properly and brilliantly. But when you do, it looks and feels awesome. We managed to make a space aircraft carrier, filled with small fighters and covered in gatling turrets. The second we flew the ship by an asteroid you'd see people getting blasted out the sky. All that was happening at about 12 FPS because the game is horribly optimised. It needs work for sure, but has potential to be cool.

Gonna have a go on TerraTech later on this week. Similar vein, but land based.

 

[ste2425]

It took me almost 70 hours, including work from two friends, to learn to build ships properly and brilliantly. But when you do, it looks and feels awesome. We managed to make a space aircraft carrier, filled with small fighters and covered in gatling turrets. The second we flew the ship by an asteroid you'd see people getting blasted out the sky. All that was happening at about 12 FPS because the game is horribly optimised. It needs work for sure, but has potential to be cool.

Gonna have a go on TerraTech later on this week. Similar vein, but land based.

Ahh iv'e been playing it solo. I imagine it's a lot quicker to build something cool when there's more than one person working on a project. Iv'e flown some of the pre-built large ships and they just seem far too slow for me. I guess when in a battle with more than one of them that's not a bad thing, should be good fun.

 

[RCoon]

Ahh iv'e been playing it solo. I imagine it's a lot quicker to build something cool when there's more than one person working on a project. Iv'e flown some of the pre-built large ships and they just seem far too slow for me. I guess when in a battle with more than one of them that's not a bad thing, should be good fun.

The bigger the ship the slower it gets. Our server had a Titan Engine addon installed. It takes a lot of resources, but allows you to make large ships (we made a downscaled deathstar), that actually move at more than 1m/s. I think it's probably down to balance as well, having an unstoppable dreadnought comprised of heavy armour and blast doors is rather difficult to penetrate unless you fire a tactical warhead (which is pretty hard to craft in itself). After 70-something hours of gameplay I got a bit too burnt out and I can't be bothered to play it until they optimise the game properly.

 

[Kursah]

With the holiday season in tow I have an urge to upgrade from my Logitech Extreme 3d Pro....or maybe just add a throttle. The HOTAS systems out there look pretty neat, and I'd like to try one without breaking the bank. I have considered getting the Thrustmaster T-Flight HOTAS-X, but have read that it's good on a tight budget but that the Logitech stick is much better and the limited buttons kinda sucks. Which defeats the purpose of minimizing keyboard usage.

What are you guys all using out there? I'd like to get a throttle setup...but damn are they expensive. Regardless I am looking at the Thrustmaster T1-6000M Flight Stick. I've read for the price, it can't be beat. I like the idea of Hall Effect sensors, they work really well for this application and in my experience, very well in automotive applications too. I prefer a stick with a "twist yaw" because I never plan on using foot pedals. I really like the Logi's twist yaw and have grown used to it over the years in EvoMerc and now Elite and SC.

I must admit I have no qualms with with Logitech unit...it has been excellent from day one. But I want more buttons and a better throttle (though the throttle isn't bad on the Logitech, just tiny...).

For a throttle, I have read repeatedly that CH is the brand to go with. A lot of people get the Fighterstick and then the Pro Throttle as well. The issue with all of CH's sticks, aside from looking like they were designed (which they were) in the 80's, is the lack of the twist yaw. I like the thought of all those HAT switches for various functions. I am sure the 16000M will do just fine though.

I am hoping I can find a used CH Throttle as I cannot justify the current $120 asking price. The 16000M seems like a pretty good deal but am hoping it'll drop in price too... I am sure with the demand for these items that may not be soon.

I have read into the Saitek products, and it seems like anything below the $400 mark has issues, deadzone, reliability, or otherwise. I'm going to pass on those for now. I would rather have durability than looks. I haven't spent more than a couple days researching this recently and am curious what you guys are doing out there. I use Mouse + KB, I have used my Logitech + KB and a little bit with a 360 controller too. I don't plan to do anything right away as I do not have the funds to waste...but am eager to look into something. And see what else is being used out there and also this post is sort of a notes of wants as well with links, etc.

 

[Ahhzz]

To draw attention here, I'm afraid I can't take advantage, having busted a Vapor-X a few weeks ago, but the Thrustmaster Warthog is down to $359 today at amazon, if anyone has the jack to spare.

 

[Conti027]

I pick my CH Stick and Throttle up for about $120 together. Keep an eye out sometimes you can find a really good deal.

 

[Kursah]

I will have to...no way I can afford to upgrade now. It appears everything is skyrocketing in price because of the demand atm...going to wait it out and see what happens this holiday season. The good ol' Logi 3D Pro will have to keep kicking ass.

I've been having so much fun in ED Gamma 1.0... I spawned at a station in the Cosi system...been running missions, started trading commodities with a neighboring Suyarang system (COSI produces a lot of metal, Suyarang has demand for metals), and of course bounty hunting because it's a blast!

I'm still in a sidewinder, have upgraded to gimballed weapons, improved power distribution, finally swapped out the scanner for 2 more cargo slots (a 1,000 investment that will net more). I have really improved my piloting as well...and have only been destroyed once! Woohoo! There are some places where interdiction is more common...and while I like the option to navigate my way out of interdiction...I've taken the attitude of challenge accepted. If you want to interdict me for my 6 cargo, I'm going to shoot you down or blow up trying.

I spent more time last night playing than working on *cough* homework *cough*... .

Overall performance is good, graphics seem cleaner, crisper (maybe it's placebic to a new version?), there are still some hitches I experience during hyperspace and near planets...but it has improved. I haven't tried it on my laptop yet...but will make note of that soon.

In other news, EvoMerc may be receiving another large update soon, Vice was kind of cryptic on this...he also mentioned a possible follow-up as well. I'll be supporting it as-soon-as it's on sale.

EDIT: @Conti027 - If you ever decide to sell that combo for cheap let me know!

I have a question...how do you deal with yaw with that setup? I use the twist axis on my Logi 3D Pro for Yaw duties, and it feels very right to me. That's my biggest concern with going with a CH stick versus the T16000m. THe 16000m has fewer buttons and switches on the stick, but has the yaw axis. I suppose one could use a hat switch for yaw...but only having one thumb kind of negates using yaw with lateral thrusters like I do now.

I wish I had the $$ to upgrade...maybe black Friday will present some great sales for these products. I'm keeping my eyes peeled.

 

[Kursah]

I am debating buying a CH Fighterstick instead of the T16000M. Going to wait for Friday and Monday sales in the hopes a great deal can come up. I can't swing over $100 for myself this holiday season...so a Pro Throttle is out. Or if I find a Pro Throttle USB for the right price maybe...but I think I'd rather replace the Logitech 3D Pro with a better stick that has more buttons/switches and accuracy. I doubt I'd use the throttle on the Fighterstick...in fact I can't really find out much about it...doesn't appear that anyone uses it, which is a sure sign that I'd use the keyboard for that duty.

I also found this post in a thread on FD forums: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38522&page=3&p=729894&viewfull=1#post729894

Kind of an interesting thing to try for Elite controls. The more thought I've put into controls, the more I feel I'd be willing to sacrifice twist yaw for more controls. That is one thing I really don't like about the 16000M....only 4 buttons and a HAT...the Logitech has that beat by a couple even and I find that's not enough within thump reach. Several HAT's and a few buttons would do the trick quite nicely...losing the switches at the base and using the keyboard for those controls won't bother me at all either seeing that's how I've space simmed the last 20 years of my life. That and I don't mind the legacy look of the CH gear, I think it's pretty damn awesome...sure I think the X52s and warthogs look sweet and Sci-Fi for sure, and overall better...I'd rather have something that looks like a toy but is built like a tank (like toys I grew up to), than something flashy that breaks in 6 months.

I am going to try a couple of different control options when I get time this weekend. One being weening myself of twist yaw, and use the keyboard A and D keys for that, also going to use the keyboard W and S keys for throttle (along with 1-0). Just to see how it affects my piloting and if it ends up helping or hindering the fun I have...because that is ultimately what I'm after. But I find myself needing to fumble a lot between the base of the Logitech and keyboard for some controls...though my most used ones are there. The only thing keeping me at the base of the Logitech is the throttle flap...I do fine with throttle on my laptop keyboard.

Thoughts? Anyone use the Fighterstick solo by itself? Seems most of what I find is it being used with the Pro Throttle. I hope to do that someday...but sure as hell won't be soon.

P.S. Anyone want to start a kickstarter DIY HOTAS project that is budget friendly?

 

[Ahhzz]

....

P.S. Anyone want to start a kickstarter DIY HOTAS project that is budget friendly?

Shutupshutupshutup!!!!!! lalalalalalalalalal I can't hear you over the sound of my wallet screaming!

 

[Kursah]

Shutupshutupshutup!!!!!! lalalalalalalalalal I can't hear you over the sound of my wallet screaming!

I know I know! I totally agree! If I had a little more ingenuity and engineering skills it'd start here and now. Don't worry I'd take care of my TPU bretheren that wanted to help test!

Pipe dream though.

Back in reality, I found my Christmas present to me... a "like-new" CH Fighterstick on Ebay (user 100%), he took my OBO for $62! Woot!

I also started a thread over on ED forums inquiring about what others would do in my situation, with the possibility of a throttle...or not. So far it's been a good thread and the votes for the T16000M and Fighterstick have been very close.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=65200

Some good suggestions, and it is pretty interesting how many different methods for piloting folks really use. That has probably been the most entertaining and interesting part of the thread.

I'm stoked for the Fighterstick aside from losing "twist yaw". but there's several solutions that might or might not work. If not I'll sell the stick on TPU first.

 

[Conti027]

EDIT: @Conti027 - If you ever decide to sell that combo for cheap let me know!

I have a question...how do you deal with yaw with that setup? I use the twist axis on my Logi 3D Pro for Yaw duties, and it feels very right to me. That's my biggest concern with going with a CH stick versus the T16000m. THe 16000m has fewer buttons and switches on the stick, but has the yaw axis. I suppose one could use a hat switch for yaw...but only having one thumb kind of negates using yaw with lateral thrusters like I do now.

I wish I had the $$ to upgrade...maybe black Friday will present some great sales for these products. I'm keeping my eyes peeled.

If I didn't need it for a few other sim games I play, I'd sell it off. I'm not a big joystick fan. I think they are way overrated and they ruin immersion for me.

I use pedals for my other axis (yaw/sometimes roll)
Elite: Dangerous has a nice yaw into roll (or reverse) feature. I think it has 2 different settings. I'd recommend checking that out.

 

[erocker]

Kursah, I sent you an invite under "The Batman"

 

[Ahhzz]

I know I know! I totally agree! If I had a little more ingenuity and engineering skills it'd start here and now. Don't worry I'd take care of my TPU bretheren that wanted to help test!

Pipe dream though.

Back in reality, I found my Christmas present to me... a "like-new" CH Fighterstick on Ebay (user 100%), he took my OBO for $62! Woot!

I also started a thread over on ED forums inquiring about what others would do in my situation, with the possibility of a throttle...or not. So far it's been a good thread and the votes for the T16000M and Fighterstick have been very close.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=65200

Some good suggestions, and it is pretty interesting how many different methods for piloting folks really use. That has probably been the most entertaining and interesting part of the thread.

I'm stoked for the Fighterstick aside from losing "twist yaw". but there's several solutions that might or might not work. If not I'll sell the stick on TPU first.

I downloaded Gamma earlier this week, and ran thru the first tutorials... MAN that thing's hard to maneuver with a mouse.... I crawled through the first 2 battle tutes, and went ahead and entered the universe. still having a bear of a time landing, but I may be getting the hang of it. Made my first simple trade run, and after fuel, and damages from 2 emergency jump exits, I made a whopping 200 credits, which doesn't cover the 500 fine I got trying to land on the wrong pad, and couldn't get out quick enough to avoid. *sigh* oh well, gotta learn

 

[BarbaricSoul]

I DL'ed Star Citizen yesterday, played a couple combat arena games with the 325A. Haven't really dove into it yet though.

 

[Kursah]

I downloaded Gamma earlier this week, and ran thru the first tutorials... MAN that thing's hard to maneuver with a mouse.... I crawled through the first 2 battle tutes, and went ahead and entered the universe. still having a bear of a time landing, but I may be getting the hang of it. Made my first simple trade run, and after fuel, and damages from 2 emergency jump exits, I made a whopping 200 credits, which doesn't cover the 500 fine I got trying to land on the wrong pad, and couldn't get out quick enough to avoid. *sigh* oh well, gotta learn

Yeah it takes a little more time for me to adjust to a mouse. I spent some time this summer and last winter using a mouse only, shelving the Logitech. I ultimately adjusted fine. The goal was proficiency in EvoMerc, and later on Elite Dangerous no matter if I was on my home PC or my laptop. Now I struggle to relearn while on the laptop, but usually a few minutes in and I have my grips enough to run around and skirmish a little bit.

Landing was a bear the first couple of times for me as well, but a youtube video and just doing it over and over and over when running trade routes and missions, and I'm fairly decent most of the time. Still have some learning to do here myself, but I'm getting pretty quick at it, usually entering and exiting at full throttle and cutting back just in time to land. It's a fun challenge!

I find 75% throttle is the sweet spot for Super Cruise. That will allow you to approach an will keep you square in the sweet spot for the SC Auto-Throttle to slow you down to the correct speed so you can come out of SC without needing to do any emergency jumps. Those are the same things I went through my first few rounds as well, and when I decided I really liked the game. There are consequences and learning curves for all sorts of tasks, and I like it! Glad you're going through the motions! Hope to see you out there commander!

I DL'ed Star Citizen yesterday, played a couple combat arena games with the 325A. Haven't really dove into it yet though.

Nice, I hope you enjoy it! SC is a good game, and poised to be an excellent title that is played and coveted for years to come. I hope they can make it happen!

The AC module is fun, but I hate that I cannot change the controls without modding XML files (it gets very limited and the menu item is still borked last I checked), and frankly I've been too lazy to play SC because I feel Elite and EvoMerc handle much better and are more fun to play. SC .9 has been pretty good the couple hours I have put into it. I always have to switch my yaw and roll axis in that game...I am not a fan of that default setup. It is fun, but feels more like BF or CoD in space atm because it is so limited in what you can do. I love skirmishing and battles, but limited to a small chunk of space and nothing else to do or see just kills my attention for it. Flying around on the same couple of maps over and over after months isn't my thing. The modes are fun, but again... CoD or BF in space... just not my thing after 2-3 rounds. At least at the moment, when I want beautiful action now...in space...that's my first stop, without question! So here's to hoping the exploration, trading, story, etc. are all amazing additions.

They have a good thing going, but my attention is elsewhere until you can explore more space...not really interested in SC or ED's walking around/FPS stuff...maybe it'll be good and a pleasant change when flying around gets boring at some point. I do hope both can implement real-time planetary interaction/landing/entrance/exit, etc. EvoMerc still has them both on that and a couple other things IMHO... so it's still fun to get back into, especially MP.