Windows 11 General Discussion

windwhirl · Feb 13, 2024

ThrashZone said:
Hi,
Looks like bypasses are going to get sacked earlier than win-12 hehe

Microsoft's upcoming change could block off Windows 11 CPU requirements bypass on old PCs

Microsoft is reportedly updating the CPU instruction support on Windows 11 with a new "POPCOUNT" instruction, which means systems with very old PCs won't be able to bypass requirements.

www.neowin.net

All Intel Core ix processors support POPCNT, alongside all Celeron/Pentium processors built on Sandy Bridge or later and Atoms and the like from 2013 or so.
And all AMD CPUs since K10 and Bulldozer era support it
So kinda meh news really as most people with CPUs older than that are either running a version of Windows older than 11 or they switched to Linux.

That said, I don't see the wrong in requiring certain instructions that have been standard in all new CPUs for years now. Specially if it translates in some sort of performance improvement somewhere.

Count von Schwalbe · Feb 13, 2024

The list of "supported" processors is much more restrictive than that already. I doubt people are running those (besides Shrek) as their main CPU nowadays. Maybe a very few people.

theFOoL · Feb 13, 2024

Ha I'm running WiN11 on my system just fine. Someone will find a way around it

ThrashZone · Feb 13, 2024

windwhirl said:
All Intel Core ix processors support POPCNT, alongside all Celeron/Pentium processors built on Sandy Bridge or later and Atoms and the like from 2013 or so.
And all AMD CPUs since K10 and Bulldozer era support it
So kinda meh news really as most people with CPUs older than that are either running a version of Windows older than 11 or they switched to Linux.

That said, I don't see the wrong in requiring certain instructions that have been standard in all new CPUs for years now. Specially if it translates in some sort of performance improvement somewhere.

Hi,
Yeah but that is just one bypass out of 5 I believe
Biggest one not sure many of those can hop over is tpm and maybe secure boot.
So point is the 11 grip is tightening hehe
MS could add the checks to the efi boot and stop booting to 11 unless compliant because obviously the wall paper banner was to easy to get around.

Shrek · Feb 13, 2024

theFOoL said:
Ha I'm running WiN11 on my system just fine. Someone will find a way around it

Recently some Apps stopped working on old CPUs

Windows 10 System Apps Are Breaking on Some PCs (howtogeek.com)

This was not intentional, but could be on Windows 11 as the CPUs involved are not supported.

R-T-B · Feb 13, 2024

windwhirl said:
All Intel Core ix processors support POPCNT, alongside all Celeron/Pentium processors built on Sandy Bridge or later and Atoms and the like from 2013 or so.
And all AMD CPUs since K10 and Bulldozer era support it
So kinda meh news really as most people with CPUs older than that are either running a version of Windows older than 11 or they switched to Linux.

That said, I don't see the wrong in requiring certain instructions that have been standard in all new CPUs for years now. Specially if it translates in some sort of performance improvement somewhere.

Yeah core 2's are basically the most upsetting loss. Most of those are aging out of usefulness anyways.

Shrek said:
Recently some Apps stopped working on old CPUs

Windows 10 System Apps Are Breaking on Some PCs (howtogeek.com)

This was not intentional, but could be on Windows 11 as the CPUs involved are not supported.

This is also Core 2 cpus. I sense a trend.

theFOoL said:
Ha I'm running WiN11 on my system just fine. Someone will find a way around it

If the kernel truly ends up requiring it a bypass is unlikely. But not all is lost, you can always just run an older build or just win10.

windwhirl said:
Specially if it translates in some sort of performance improvement somewhere.

It likely does.

lexluthermiester · Feb 13, 2024

R-T-B said:
you can always just run an older build or just win10.

This. LTSC is an excellent version of Windows 10. However, Windows 7 is excellent too if you don't care about the internet OR you don't visit sites that fall into the "IShouldntBeHere.com" category. There are a surprising number of web browsers that are supporting Windows 7 still.

windwhirl · Feb 13, 2024

R-T-B said:
This is also Core 2 cpus. I sense a trend.

It's a little annoying that they're updating apps in Windows 10 to require instructions that are not required by the original Windows 10 requirements. But I guess it's inevitable when the OS is almost a decade old.

lexluthermiester said:
This. LTSC is an excellent version of Windows 10. However, Windows 7 is excellent too if you don't care about the internet OR you don't visit sites that fall into the "IShouldntBeHere.com" category. There are a surprising number of web browsers that are supporting Windows 7 still.

The 115.x ESR version of Firefox still does, at least until somewhere around Q3 2024. The normal version of Firefox and the next ESR branch (128.x) have already/will drop support for Windows 7.

lexluthermiester · Feb 13, 2024

windwhirl said:
The 115.x ESR version of Firefox still does, at least until somewhere around Q3 2024. The normal version of Firefox and the next ESR branch (128.x) have already/will drop support for Windows 7.

Yeah, kinda sucks..

ThrashZone · Feb 13, 2024

Hi,
On another note it's fat Tuesday and also monthly security updates time so backup, backup, backup or disable updates service ...hehe

Microsoft February 2024 Security Updates

February 2024 Security Updates This release consists of the following 73 Microsoft CVEs: Tag CVE Base Score CVSS Vector Exploitability FAQs? Workarounds? Mitigations? Azure DevOps CVE-2024-20667 Microsoft Office CVE-2024-20673 Azure Stack CVE-2024-20679 Windows Hyper-V CVE-2024-20684 Skype for...

www.elevenforum.com

windwhirl · Feb 14, 2024

R-T-B said:
It likely does.

Seems so. I saw the Ars Technica article about this just a bit ago and there seems to be at least some usefulness out of POPCNT for cryptography purposes (with POPCNT rumored to be added to x86 CPUs at the request of the US NSA of all things), and some other interesting uses.

Also this:

You Won’t Believe This One Weird CPU Instruction! - Vaibhav Sagar

ThrashZone said:
Hi,
On another note it's fat Tuesday and also monthly security updates time so backup, backup, backup or disable updates service ...hehe

Microsoft February 2024 Security Updates

February 2024 Security Updates This release consists of the following 73 Microsoft CVEs: Tag CVE Base Score CVSS Vector Exploitability FAQs? Workarounds? Mitigations? Azure DevOps CVE-2024-20667 Microsoft Office CVE-2024-20673 Azure Stack CVE-2024-20679 Windows Hyper-V CVE-2024-20684 Skype for...

www.elevenforum.com

*laughs in I get entirely new builds every week, so it's always a full system upgrade

gurusmi · Feb 14, 2024

That Bit arreay statement is so dumb. It's a cheap excuse for a basic developer. For developer worked with bit arrays as a charm. They just used boolean arithmetics (and, or, nand, nor, not). If one would use a applicable programming language instead of a unsuitable one it would work quite fast. And also that developer would have to know about mathematics. If i use a language that compiles to a meta instruction and after interprets that instructions did not understand anything about development basics.

AleXXX666 · Feb 14, 2024

I'm late I know, but I'm waiting more Windows 11 2024 LTSC more than GTA 6 LMFAO

lexluthermiester · Feb 14, 2024

AleXXX666 said:
I'm waiting more Windows 11 2024 LTSC

With you on that one. Very interested in testing it out.

R-T-B · Feb 14, 2024

gurusmi said:
That Bit arreay statement is so dumb. It's a cheap excuse for a basic developer. For developer worked with bit arrays as a charm. They just used boolean arithmetics (and, or, nand, nor, not). If one would use a applicable programming language instead of a unsuitable one it would work quite fast. And also that developer would have to know about mathematics. If i use a language that compiles to a meta instruction and after interprets that instructions did not understand anything about development basics.

We are talking machine assembly not languages my man. Even your higher languages benefit from the presence of this instruction if the compiler is aware.

lexluthermiester · Feb 14, 2024

R-T-B said:
if the compiler is aware.

Solid "if"..

gurusmi · Feb 14, 2024

R-T-B said:
We are talking machine assembly not languages my man. Even your higher languages benefit from the presence of this instruction if the compiler is aware.

One don't need a ssx/mmx instruction set to do a logical operation on a bit field. The by me named logical operations are the basic of every processor. Without that instzructions no CPU would work. That's known by everybody with a reliable solid education in different branches of the hardware/software area.

ThrashZone · Feb 14, 2024

windwhirl said:
*laughs in I get entirely new builds every week, so it's always a full system upgrade

Clearly we have different definitions of what "full system upgrade" meaning is :laugh:

Onasi · Feb 14, 2024

A curious thing I have noticed after the previous update on 24th of January. It seems that MS has fully decoupled the Defender definition updates and them going through the Windows Update interface in Settings, unless I am missing something. Previous to said update, I had gotten those on, pretty much, every boot and sometimes during use. All of them were displayed under WU interface. Now though? Seems like the Defender is just doing its own thing by installing them quietly. If you FORCE a search in WU they will still show up if availiable and go into the "Installed Updates" list. But those that Defender pulls on its own do not. I noticed it today when installing yesterdays Updates. Windows said that the only Definition it installed since 24th of January was on 3rd of Feb. That got me curious, and yeah, just now after a reboot the Defender pulled a new update without WU being aware it seems. The latest version the WU interface shows is 1.403.3731 which got installed today along with the Tuesday KBs. Defender, however, just pulled a 1.403.3739 on a reboot it seems.
Its not an issue, just something I noticed. Maybe this was how the OS did thing for a while and I just didn't pay it much mind.

windwhirl · Feb 14, 2024

Onasi said:
A curious thing I have noticed after the previous update on 24th of January. It seems that MS has fully decoupled the Defender definition updates and them going through the Windows Update interface in Settings, unless I am missing something. Previous to said update, I had gotten those on, pretty much, every boot and sometimes during use. All of them were displayed under WU interface. Now though? Seems like the Defender is just doing its own thing by installing them quietly. If you FORCE a search in WU they will still show up if availiable and go into the "Installed Updates" list. But those that Defender pulls on its own do not. I noticed it today when installing yesterdays Updates. Windows said that the only Definition it installed since 24th of January was on 3rd of Feb. That got me curious, and yeah, just now after a reboot the Defender pulled a new update without WU being aware it seems. The latest version the WU interface shows is 1.403.3731 which got installed today along with the Tuesday KBs. Defender, however, just pulled a 1.403.3739 on a reboot it seems.
Its not an issue, just something I noticed. Maybe this was how the OS did thing for a while and I just didn't pay it much mind.

Weird.
I do get Defender updates daily or almost daily. And I don't use it, I have a third-party anti-malware software

Onasi · Feb 14, 2024

windwhirl said:
Weird.
I do get Defender updates daily or almost daily. And I don't use it, I have a third-party anti-malware software

There is certainly a possibility that the 24th of Jan update messed something up with my Windows Update. Though the current Updates downloaded and installed just fine, so... *shrug* I'll see how the system behaves now on a new build. Who knows, just ran SFC and DISM out of curiosity, no issues. You never know with MS.

mtosev · Feb 14, 2024

I wrote here that I ordered windows 11 Pro from Amazon.de and I have gotten the English version (sku hav-00162). I expected that they would ship me a German version but it got in English. Very happy.

R-T-B · Feb 14, 2024

lexluthermiester said:
View attachment 334509
Solid "if"..

I mean 99% of nonancient compilers today are. Good to pay attention anyways though.

gurusmi said:
One don't need a ssx/mmx instruction set to do a logical operation on a bit field. The by me named logical operations are the basic of every processor. Without that instzructions no CPU would work. That's known by everybody with a reliable solid education in different branches of the hardware/software area.

Cool. The whole point is this does it in one instruction. Cheaper.

windwhirl · Feb 14, 2024

R-T-B said:
Good to pay attention anyways though.

Developer Community

developercommunity.visualstudio.com

Apparently the whole thing seems to be a bug in Visual Studio / Visual C++ runtimes forcing POPCNT on regardless of your configuration? And the issue mentioned before about Windows 10 apps no longer running on Core 2 systems seems to stem from this same bug so it should be fixed soon

R-T-B · Feb 14, 2024

windwhirl said:
Developer Community

Developer Community

developercommunity.visualstudio.com

Apparently the whole thing seems to be a bug in Visual Studio / Visual C++ runtimes forcing POPCNT on regardless of your configuration? And the issue mentioned before about Windows 10 apps no longer running on Core 2 systems seems to stem from this same bug so it should be fixed soon

Interesting. The plot thickens.

System Name	System V
Processor	AMD Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard	Asus Prime X570-P
Cooling	Cooler Master Hyper 212 // a bunch of 120 mm Xigmatek 1500 RPM fans (2 ins, 3 outs)
Memory	2x8GB Ballistix Sport LT 3200 MHz (BLS8G4D32AESCK.M8FE) (CL16-18-18-36)
Video Card(s)	Gigabyte AORUS Radeon RX 580 8 GB
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Audio Device(s)	Logitech G430 Headset
Power Supply	Corsair CX650M
Software	Whatever build of Windows 11 is being served in Canary channel at the time.
Benchmark Scores	Corona 1.3: 3120620 r/s Cinebench R20: 3355 FireStrike: 12490 TimeSpy: 4624

System Name	Work Computer \| Unfinished Computer
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Storage	Crucial BX500 2TB \| TBD
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Case	Dell \| Heavily Modified Phanteks P400
Power Supply	Dell TFX Non-standard \| EVGA BQ 650W
Mouse	Monster No-Name $7 Gaming Mouse\| TBD

System Name	BoX-Server \| 775PC
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Motherboard	ASRock B85M-ITX \| ASUS P5Q-EM
Cooling	OEZM HSK \| 120MM Heatsink (2-FANs)
Memory	8GB DDR3 (2x4GB) \| 8GB DDR2 (4x2GB)
Video Card(s)	Onboard \| NVIDIA Quadro K2200 4GB
Storage	120GB SSD 1TB WD \| 120GB SSD 1TB Seagate 500GB HDD <<
Display(s)	DELL 17" LCD 1280x1024 \| ASUS 24" LCD IPS
Case	CoolerMaster 110 \| DIYPC N1e-SPORT
Audio Device(s)	Onboard
Power Supply	EVGA 550WATT \| Rosewill 530WATT
Mouse	Input-Director\| RoseWill FUSION C40
Keyboard	Input-Director \| RoseWill FUSION
Software	WiN1124H2/WiN11ET

System Name	Ghetto Rigs z490\|x99\|Acer 17 Nitro 7840hs/ 5600c40-2x16/ 4060/ 1tb acer stock m.2/ 4tb sn850x
Processor	10900k w/Optimus Foundation \| 5930k w/Black Noctua D15
Motherboard	z490 Maximus XII Apex \| x99 Sabertooth
Cooling	oCool D5 res-combo/280 GTX/ Optimus Foundation/ gpu water block \| Blk D15
Memory	Trident-Z Royal 4000c16 2x16gb \| Trident-Z 3200c14 4x8gb
Video Card(s)	Titan Xp-water \| evga 980ti gaming-w/ air
Storage	970evo+500gb & sn850x 4tb \| 860 pro 256gb \| Acer m.2 1tb/ sn850x 4tb\| Many2.5" sata's ssd 3.5hdd's
Display(s)	1-AOC G2460PG 24"G-Sync 144Hz/ 2nd 1-ASUS VG248QE 24"/ 3rd LG 43" series
Case	D450 \| Cherry Entertainment center on Test bench
Audio Device(s)	Built in Realtek x2 with 2-Insignia 2.0 sound bars & 1-LG sound bar
Power Supply	EVGA 1000P2 with APC AX1500 \| 850P2 with CyberPower-GX1325U
Mouse	Redragon 901 Perdition x3
Keyboard	G710+x3
Software	Win-7 pro x3 and win-10 & 11pro x3
Benchmark Scores	Are in the benchmark section

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Processor	Intel Core i5-10400F
Motherboard	Gigabyte B460M DS3H AC-Y1
Memory	2 x Crucial Ballistix 8GB DDR4-3000
Video Card(s)	MSI Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 Super
Storage	Boot: Intel OPTANE SSD P1600X Series 118GB M.2 PCIE
Display(s)	Dell P2416D (2560 x 1440)
Power Supply	EVGA 500W1 (modified to have two bridge rectifiers)
Software	Windows 11 Home

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Processor	Ryzen R9 9950X
Motherboard	GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory	64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s)	XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage	Intel 905p Optane 960GB boot, +2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s)	55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
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Audio Device(s)	TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply	FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse	Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard	WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software	Gentoo Linux x64 / Windows 11 Enterprise IoT 2024

System Name	Naboo (2019)
Processor	AMD 3800x
Motherboard	Gigabyte Aorus Master V1 (X470)
Cooling	individual EKWB/Heatkiller loop
Memory	4*8 GB 3600 Corsair Vengeance
Video Card(s)	Sapphire Pulse 5700XT
Storage	SSD 1TB PCIe 4.0x4, 2 TB PCIe 3.0
Display(s)	2*WQHD
Case	Lian Li O11 Rog
Audio Device(s)	Hifiman, Topping DAC/KHV
Power Supply	Seasonic 850W Gold
Mouse	Logitech MX2, Logitech MX Ergo Trackball
Keyboard	Cherry Stream Wireless, Logitech MX Keys
Software	Linux Mint "Vera" Cinnamon

System Name	ASUS TUF F15
Processor	Intel Core i7-11800H
Motherboard	ASUS FX506HC
Cooling	Laptop built-in cooling lol
Memory	24 GB @ 3200
Video Card(s)	Intel UHD & Nvidia RTX 3050 Mobile
Storage	Adata XPG SX8200 Pro 512 GB
Display(s)	Laptop built-in 144 Hz FHD screen
Audio Device(s)	LOGITECH 2.1-channel
Power Supply	ASUS 180W PSU
Mouse	Logitech G604
Keyboard	SteelSeries Apex 7 TKL
Software	Windows 10 Enterprise 21H2 LTSC

System Name	The Workhorse
Processor	AMD Ryzen R9 5900X
Motherboard	Gigabyte Aorus B550 Pro
Cooling	CPU - Noctua NH-D15S Case - 3 Noctua NF-A14 PWM at the bottom, 2 Fractal Design 180mm at the front
Memory	GSkill Trident Z 3200CL14
Video Card(s)	NVidia GTX 1070 MSI QuickSilver
Storage	Adata SX8200Pro
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Audio Device(s)	FiiO E-10K DAC/Amp, Samson Meteorite USB Microphone
Power Supply	Corsair RMx850 (2018)
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Keyboard	Cooler Master QuickFire Rapid TKL keyboard (Cherry MX Black)
Software	Windows 11 Pro (24H2)

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Video Card(s)	Asus ROG Strix RTX 2080 Super / UHD 620
Storage	Samsung SSD 970 PRO 1TB / Samsung OEM 256GB NVMe
Display(s)	Dell UltraSharp UP3017 / Full HD IPS touch
Case	Coolermaster mastercase H500M
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Keyboard	Cherry
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Windows 11 General Discussion

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