Windows 11 General Discussion

windwhirl · Feb 13, 2024

ThrashZone said:
Hi,
Looks like bypasses are going to get sacked earlier than win-12 hehe

Microsoft's upcoming change could block off Windows 11 CPU requirements bypass on old PCs

Microsoft is reportedly updating the CPU instruction support on Windows 11 with a new "POPCOUNT" instruction, which means systems with very old PCs won't be able to bypass requirements.

www.neowin.net

All Intel Core ix processors support POPCNT, alongside all Celeron/Pentium processors built on Sandy Bridge or later and Atoms and the like from 2013 or so.
And all AMD CPUs since K10 and Bulldozer era support it
So kinda meh news really as most people with CPUs older than that are either running a version of Windows older than 11 or they switched to Linux.

That said, I don't see the wrong in requiring certain instructions that have been standard in all new CPUs for years now. Specially if it translates in some sort of performance improvement somewhere.

Count von Schwalbe · Feb 13, 2024

The list of "supported" processors is much more restrictive than that already. I doubt people are running those (besides Shrek) as their main CPU nowadays. Maybe a very few people.

theFOoL · Feb 13, 2024

Ha I'm running WiN11 on my system just fine. Someone will find a way around it

ThrashZone · Feb 13, 2024

windwhirl said:
All Intel Core ix processors support POPCNT, alongside all Celeron/Pentium processors built on Sandy Bridge or later and Atoms and the like from 2013 or so.
And all AMD CPUs since K10 and Bulldozer era support it
So kinda meh news really as most people with CPUs older than that are either running a version of Windows older than 11 or they switched to Linux.

That said, I don't see the wrong in requiring certain instructions that have been standard in all new CPUs for years now. Specially if it translates in some sort of performance improvement somewhere.

Hi,
Yeah but that is just one bypass out of 5 I believe
Biggest one not sure many of those can hop over is tpm and maybe secure boot.
So point is the 11 grip is tightening hehe
MS could add the checks to the efi boot and stop booting to 11 unless compliant because obviously the wall paper banner was to easy to get around.

Shrek · Feb 13, 2024

theFOoL said:
Ha I'm running WiN11 on my system just fine. Someone will find a way around it

Recently some Apps stopped working on old CPUs

Windows 10 System Apps Are Breaking on Some PCs (howtogeek.com)

This was not intentional, but could be on Windows 11 as the CPUs involved are not supported.

R-T-B · Feb 13, 2024

windwhirl said:
All Intel Core ix processors support POPCNT, alongside all Celeron/Pentium processors built on Sandy Bridge or later and Atoms and the like from 2013 or so.
And all AMD CPUs since K10 and Bulldozer era support it
So kinda meh news really as most people with CPUs older than that are either running a version of Windows older than 11 or they switched to Linux.

That said, I don't see the wrong in requiring certain instructions that have been standard in all new CPUs for years now. Specially if it translates in some sort of performance improvement somewhere.

Yeah core 2's are basically the most upsetting loss. Most of those are aging out of usefulness anyways.

Shrek said:
Recently some Apps stopped working on old CPUs

Windows 10 System Apps Are Breaking on Some PCs (howtogeek.com)

This was not intentional, but could be on Windows 11 as the CPUs involved are not supported.

This is also Core 2 cpus. I sense a trend.

theFOoL said:
Ha I'm running WiN11 on my system just fine. Someone will find a way around it

If the kernel truly ends up requiring it a bypass is unlikely. But not all is lost, you can always just run an older build or just win10.

windwhirl said:
Specially if it translates in some sort of performance improvement somewhere.

It likely does.

lexluthermiester · Feb 13, 2024

R-T-B said:
you can always just run an older build or just win10.

This. LTSC is an excellent version of Windows 10. However, Windows 7 is excellent too if you don't care about the internet OR you don't visit sites that fall into the "IShouldntBeHere.com" category. There are a surprising number of web browsers that are supporting Windows 7 still.

windwhirl · Feb 13, 2024

R-T-B said:
This is also Core 2 cpus. I sense a trend.

It's a little annoying that they're updating apps in Windows 10 to require instructions that are not required by the original Windows 10 requirements. But I guess it's inevitable when the OS is almost a decade old.

lexluthermiester said:
This. LTSC is an excellent version of Windows 10. However, Windows 7 is excellent too if you don't care about the internet OR you don't visit sites that fall into the "IShouldntBeHere.com" category. There are a surprising number of web browsers that are supporting Windows 7 still.

The 115.x ESR version of Firefox still does, at least until somewhere around Q3 2024. The normal version of Firefox and the next ESR branch (128.x) have already/will drop support for Windows 7.

lexluthermiester · Feb 13, 2024

windwhirl said:
The 115.x ESR version of Firefox still does, at least until somewhere around Q3 2024. The normal version of Firefox and the next ESR branch (128.x) have already/will drop support for Windows 7.

Yeah, kinda sucks..

ThrashZone · Feb 13, 2024

Hi,
On another note it's fat Tuesday and also monthly security updates time so backup, backup, backup or disable updates service ...hehe

Microsoft February 2024 Security Updates

February 2024 Security Updates This release consists of the following 73 Microsoft CVEs: Tag CVE Base Score CVSS Vector Exploitability FAQs? Workarounds? Mitigations? Azure DevOps CVE-2024-20667 Microsoft Office CVE-2024-20673 Azure Stack CVE-2024-20679 Windows Hyper-V CVE-2024-20684 Skype for...

www.elevenforum.com

windwhirl · Feb 14, 2024

R-T-B said:
It likely does.

Seems so. I saw the Ars Technica article about this just a bit ago and there seems to be at least some usefulness out of POPCNT for cryptography purposes (with POPCNT rumored to be added to x86 CPUs at the request of the US NSA of all things), and some other interesting uses.

Also this:

You Won’t Believe This One Weird CPU Instruction! - Vaibhav Sagar

ThrashZone said:
Hi,
On another note it's fat Tuesday and also monthly security updates time so backup, backup, backup or disable updates service ...hehe

Microsoft February 2024 Security Updates

February 2024 Security Updates This release consists of the following 73 Microsoft CVEs: Tag CVE Base Score CVSS Vector Exploitability FAQs? Workarounds? Mitigations? Azure DevOps CVE-2024-20667 Microsoft Office CVE-2024-20673 Azure Stack CVE-2024-20679 Windows Hyper-V CVE-2024-20684 Skype for...

www.elevenforum.com

*laughs in I get entirely new builds every week, so it's always a full system upgrade

gurusmi · Feb 14, 2024

That Bit arreay statement is so dumb. It's a cheap excuse for a basic developer. For developer worked with bit arrays as a charm. They just used boolean arithmetics (and, or, nand, nor, not). If one would use a applicable programming language instead of a unsuitable one it would work quite fast. And also that developer would have to know about mathematics. If i use a language that compiles to a meta instruction and after interprets that instructions did not understand anything about development basics.

AleXXX666 · Feb 14, 2024

I'm late I know, but I'm waiting more Windows 11 2024 LTSC more than GTA 6 LMFAO

lexluthermiester · Feb 14, 2024

AleXXX666 said:
I'm waiting more Windows 11 2024 LTSC

With you on that one. Very interested in testing it out.

R-T-B · Feb 14, 2024

gurusmi said:
That Bit arreay statement is so dumb. It's a cheap excuse for a basic developer. For developer worked with bit arrays as a charm. They just used boolean arithmetics (and, or, nand, nor, not). If one would use a applicable programming language instead of a unsuitable one it would work quite fast. And also that developer would have to know about mathematics. If i use a language that compiles to a meta instruction and after interprets that instructions did not understand anything about development basics.

We are talking machine assembly not languages my man. Even your higher languages benefit from the presence of this instruction if the compiler is aware.

lexluthermiester · Feb 14, 2024

R-T-B said:
if the compiler is aware.

Solid "if"..

gurusmi · Feb 14, 2024

R-T-B said:
We are talking machine assembly not languages my man. Even your higher languages benefit from the presence of this instruction if the compiler is aware.

One don't need a ssx/mmx instruction set to do a logical operation on a bit field. The by me named logical operations are the basic of every processor. Without that instzructions no CPU would work. That's known by everybody with a reliable solid education in different branches of the hardware/software area.

ThrashZone · Feb 14, 2024

windwhirl said:
*laughs in I get entirely new builds every week, so it's always a full system upgrade

Clearly we have different definitions of what "full system upgrade" meaning is :laugh:

Onasi · Feb 14, 2024

A curious thing I have noticed after the previous update on 24th of January. It seems that MS has fully decoupled the Defender definition updates and them going through the Windows Update interface in Settings, unless I am missing something. Previous to said update, I had gotten those on, pretty much, every boot and sometimes during use. All of them were displayed under WU interface. Now though? Seems like the Defender is just doing its own thing by installing them quietly. If you FORCE a search in WU they will still show up if availiable and go into the "Installed Updates" list. But those that Defender pulls on its own do not. I noticed it today when installing yesterdays Updates. Windows said that the only Definition it installed since 24th of January was on 3rd of Feb. That got me curious, and yeah, just now after a reboot the Defender pulled a new update without WU being aware it seems. The latest version the WU interface shows is 1.403.3731 which got installed today along with the Tuesday KBs. Defender, however, just pulled a 1.403.3739 on a reboot it seems.
Its not an issue, just something I noticed. Maybe this was how the OS did thing for a while and I just didn't pay it much mind.

windwhirl · Feb 14, 2024

Onasi said:
A curious thing I have noticed after the previous update on 24th of January. It seems that MS has fully decoupled the Defender definition updates and them going through the Windows Update interface in Settings, unless I am missing something. Previous to said update, I had gotten those on, pretty much, every boot and sometimes during use. All of them were displayed under WU interface. Now though? Seems like the Defender is just doing its own thing by installing them quietly. If you FORCE a search in WU they will still show up if availiable and go into the "Installed Updates" list. But those that Defender pulls on its own do not. I noticed it today when installing yesterdays Updates. Windows said that the only Definition it installed since 24th of January was on 3rd of Feb. That got me curious, and yeah, just now after a reboot the Defender pulled a new update without WU being aware it seems. The latest version the WU interface shows is 1.403.3731 which got installed today along with the Tuesday KBs. Defender, however, just pulled a 1.403.3739 on a reboot it seems.
Its not an issue, just something I noticed. Maybe this was how the OS did thing for a while and I just didn't pay it much mind.

Weird.
I do get Defender updates daily or almost daily. And I don't use it, I have a third-party anti-malware software

Onasi · Feb 14, 2024

windwhirl said:
Weird.
I do get Defender updates daily or almost daily. And I don't use it, I have a third-party anti-malware software

There is certainly a possibility that the 24th of Jan update messed something up with my Windows Update. Though the current Updates downloaded and installed just fine, so... *shrug* I'll see how the system behaves now on a new build. Who knows, just ran SFC and DISM out of curiosity, no issues. You never know with MS.

mtosev · Feb 14, 2024

I wrote here that I ordered windows 11 Pro from Amazon.de and I have gotten the English version (sku hav-00162). I expected that they would ship me a German version but it got in English. Very happy.

R-T-B · Feb 14, 2024

lexluthermiester said:
View attachment 334509
Solid "if"..

I mean 99% of nonancient compilers today are. Good to pay attention anyways though.

gurusmi said:
One don't need a ssx/mmx instruction set to do a logical operation on a bit field. The by me named logical operations are the basic of every processor. Without that instzructions no CPU would work. That's known by everybody with a reliable solid education in different branches of the hardware/software area.

Cool. The whole point is this does it in one instruction. Cheaper.

windwhirl · Feb 14, 2024

R-T-B said:
Good to pay attention anyways though.

Developer Community

developercommunity.visualstudio.com

Apparently the whole thing seems to be a bug in Visual Studio / Visual C++ runtimes forcing POPCNT on regardless of your configuration? And the issue mentioned before about Windows 10 apps no longer running on Core 2 systems seems to stem from this same bug so it should be fixed soon

R-T-B · Feb 14, 2024

windwhirl said:
Developer Community

Developer Community

developercommunity.visualstudio.com

Apparently the whole thing seems to be a bug in Visual Studio / Visual C++ runtimes forcing POPCNT on regardless of your configuration? And the issue mentioned before about Windows 10 apps no longer running on Core 2 systems seems to stem from this same bug so it should be fixed soon

Interesting. The plot thickens.

System Name	System V
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Software	Win-7 pro x3 and win-10 & 11pro x3
Benchmark Scores	Are in the benchmark section

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Memory	2 x Crucial Ballistix 8GB DDR4-3000
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Power Supply	EVGA 500W1 (modified to have two bridge rectifiers)
Software	Windows 11 Home

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Video Card(s)	XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
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VR HMD	Quest 2 sold out and don't need VR anymore lol
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Benchmark Scores	good enough

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Windows 11 General Discussion

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