Xeon Owners Club

[Sora]

Skylake-SP and Broadwell-EP have pretty much nothing in common. Ring bus was replaced by mesh, core architecture is different, etc.

and who is an AMD fanboy?

mesh was in hindsight a downgrade, 7900 and 9900k beaten fair and square in single threaded game performance, by their older sibling at same clocks.

Only problem with X58 is missing AVX instruction so some newer games are unable to be played on this platform...other than that is still totally fine for a daily driver.....

there are other platform issues at hand, the gen 1 pcie controller in the ich chip for one, usb3 addin boards have a possibility of using lanes off that instead of the IOH's gen 2 controller.
incompatiblity issues exist with this generations implementation of VTD as well, resulting in boot hang on windows 10 1703+

Intel only has a single chipset generation with massive amount of storage capability - not including third party, and thats X99, so most x79 was actually a downgrade from x58 in that regard

8 > 2+4 > 10

 

[Zyll Goliat]

there are other platform issues at hand, the gen 1 pcie controller in the ich chip for one, usb3 addin boards have a possibility of using lanes off that instead of the IOH's gen 2 controller.
incompatiblity issues exist with this generations implementation of VTD as well, resulting in boot hang on windows 10 1703+

Intel only has a single chipset generation with massive amount of storage capability - not including third party, and thats X99, so most x79 was actually a downgrade from x58 in that regard

8 > 2+4 > 10

Sure but none of those are crucial issues for average user.....As far as I remember X58 was PCIe Gen2 compatible and also some mobos have usb3 on board also I don't remember I ever have the problem with the W10 'tho that was 3+years ago.......again I am not saying that X58 is good as any new AMD or Intel platform I am just saying that is good enough to be daily driver for average "Joe"and the biggest problem that I see is the missing of AVX instruction as average Joe most likely love to play some newer games and that "potentially" could be the issue........

 

[Ruru]

Sure but none of those are crucial issues for average user.....As far as I remember X58 was PCIe Gen2 compatible and also some mobos have usb3 on board also I don't remember I ever have the problem with the W10 'tho that was 3+years ago.......again I am not saying that X58 is good as any new AMD or Intel platform I am just saying that is good enough to be daily driver for average "Joe"and the biggest problem that I see is the missing of AVX instruction as average Joe most likely love to play some newer games and that "potentially" could be the issue........

X58 doesn't have native USB3 support but for example my P6X58D-E has USB3, done with a chip. Though I have also an USB3 PCIe card to get connectivity for the case's connectors.

 

[Sora]

As far as I remember X58 was PCIe Gen2 compatible and also some mobos have usb3 on board also I don't remember I ever have the problem with the W10

X58 was Gen 2, the ICH10 it was paired with was not.
USB3 onboard was attached to a 1x Gen 2 lane and usually max out at 300MB/s, usb and sata addin boards would usually be routed to the ICH and get served Gen 1.
Third party sata was always implemented on a 1x ICH link.

I am just saying that is good enough to be daily driver for average "Joe"and the biggest problem that I see is the missing of AVX instruction

There are other things apart from AVX that impair the Nahalem and Westmere generations, for example the Rev 12 (basically Stepping A) x58 had a flaw that meant message signalled interrupts were dispatched from the ICH instead of directly from the IOH, this contributed to DPC and ISR latencies on "busy" devices such as graphics cards, and most mainboards implementing this rev of the IOH couldn't run RTX cards as they wouldn't post - even with the ACPI 2 features turns on (as found necessary with Rev 13 Asus boards). There are a few mainboards that seem to have a Rev 12 that can however these might actually be Rev 13's as most of these boards were late x58 production and usually reported a Rev 13 chipset otherwise.

Nahalem and Westmere also suffer from the IMC being attached by PLL bus(MMU) instead of ringbus ports (hence the poor memory write performance in comparison to reads).

The architecture had its day, but its certainly not a serious contender in RTS or openworld games at this point, it certainly cannot handle large clashes in starcraft 2 and Homeworld, remastered or otherwise.

 

[Ruru]

Says the person that believes AMD sata driver parameters apply to Intel sata.

You have a history of talking out your behind and its laughable that you'd dare call a moderator in as if they are lapdog when you're literally the Chihuahua here.

You have no authority to tell anyone to shut up, hush up or censor someones opinion on any topic what so ever here in this forum.



X58 was Gen 2, the ICH10 it was paired with was not.
USB3 onboard was attached to a 1x Gen 2 lane, addin boards would usually be routed to the ICH and get served Gen 1.
Third party sata was always implemented on a 1x ICH link.

Yo why that negativity against Lex, he's a hella fine guy if u ask me.

 

[Veseleil]

Let me interrupt this current narrative... Any thoughts on E5-2670 v2? Anyone tried gaming with it, how much underwhelming is it due to its low single core performance?

​

 

[Zyll Goliat]

Let me interrupt this current narrative... Any thoughts on E5-2670 v2? Anyone tried gaming with it, how much underwhelming is it due to its low single core performance?

​

I am gaming on my current 2697 V2 and previously I was gaming on 2650 V2 'tho both of my CPU was OC via BCLK so overall single and multicore performance was roughly at least 10-15% better then stocked CPU(you can read more about this HERE)....in short really depends what are you expecting and with what GPU going to pair that CPU.....

 

[the54thvoid]

Stop bickering. Next off-topic personal grudge gets a reply ban and points. Lots of points.

 

[Veseleil]

I am gaming on my current 2697 V2 and previously I was gaming on 2650 V2 'tho both of my CPU was OC via BCLK so overall single and multicore performance was roughly at least 10-15% better then stocked CPU(you can read more about this HERE)....in short really depends what are you expecting and with what GPU going to pair that CPU.....

Judging by the performance of my E3-1241 v3, with 3.9 single and 3.7GHz all core turbo (which wasn't enough to fully utilize my 5700XT), my guess is that with only 3.3GHz single core turbo it can't do much with GPUs above GTX1080 tier for example. I'll check your thread, thanks. It probably wouldn't be used exclusively for gaming, maybe Civ IV LAN parties though.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

Judging by the performance of my E3-1241 v3, with 3.9 single and 3.7GHz all core turbo (which wasn't enough to fully utilize my 5700XT), my guess is that with only 3.3GHz single core turbo it can't do much with GPUs above GTX1080 tier for example. I'll check your thread, thanks. It probably wouldn't be used exclusively for gaming, maybe Civ IV LAN parties though.

Yeah correct I agree with your statement above more or less..If 2670 V2 working on stock speed I assume it will boost on all cores probably bellow 3Ghz(2.8-2.9 most likely)and that is still good enough to not choke something like GTX1060/1070 or RX 470/580 something in that range IF can be OC and working for example 3.3Ghz on all cores then yeah it will be good enough for GTX 1080 or Vega 64 or even maybe 1080TI or 2060/3060 5600XT that still ain't going to choke or the FPS that you loose are going to be negligible ....BUT Yeah IF you plan to play games for example in 1440p or 4k up to the 60Hz/Fps then it should work totally fine even with some stronger GPU.......
P.S. Here the last GPU that I test with my 2697 V2(3,45Ghz all cores boost 4,03Ghz) was GTX 1070TI that I OC and what ever I played card was mostly working on 100% usage 'tho I do play games on 1440p/4k 60Hz but I also did benchmarks like 3d Time Spy and others in 1080p here are the results:

Now if prices continue to drop my plan is to get RTX 3060 or maybe some AMD card like Vega 64/5700XT/6600....we will see...but I am sure that I am still standing with my bellowed Xeon-X79 platform

 

[Veseleil]

Yeah correct I agree with your statement above more or less..If 2670 V2 working on stock speed I assume it will boost on all cores probably bellow 3Ghz(2.8-2.9 most likely)and that is still good enough to not choke something like GTX1060/1070 or RX 470/580 something in that range IF can be OC and working for example 3.3Ghz on all cores then yeah it will be good enough for GTX 1080 or Vega 64 or even maybe 1080TI or 2060/3060 5600XT that still ain't going to choke or the FPS that you loose are going to be negligible ....BUT Yeah IF you plan to play games for example in 1440p or 4k up to the 60Hz/Fps then it should work totally fine even with some stronger GPU.......
P.S. Here the last GPU that I test with my 2697 V2(3,45Ghz all cores boost 4,03Ghz) was GTX 1070TI that I OC and what ever I played card was mostly working on 100% usage 'tho I do play games on 1440p/4k 60Hz but I also did benchmarks like 3d Time Spy and others in 1080p here are the results:

View attachment 262517
View attachment 262519
Now if prices continue to drop my plan is to get RTX 3060 or maybe some AMD card like Vega 64/5700XT/6600....we will see...but I am sure that I am still standing with my bellowed Xeon-X79 platform

I wanted to buy Vega 64 or 54 (and flash 64's bios) few years ago, couldn't find any out of mining rigs. Also tried to snatch a good deal on 1080ti, faced the same problem, and those I could find used around 450EUR were without any warranty and obviously exhausted from cryptomining. Got a brand new 5700XT Nitro+ for the same amount and almost the same performance (at that time, now 1080ti loses to 5700XT in most modern titles on 1080p and 1440p).
Also I'd like to mention that I've tried to OC my 1241 v3 via BCLK, got a better CB scores and higher clock speed, but it became unstable in all different sort of ways. If I get my hands on that 2670 v2, i know a person to ask for an advice.


My OC result.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

I wanted to buy Vega 64 or 54 (and flash 64's bios) few years ago, couldn't find any out of mining rigs. Also tried to snatch a good deal on 1080ti, faced the same problem, and those I could find used around 450EUR were without any warranty and obviously exhausted from cryptomining. Got a brand new 5700XT Nitro+ for the same amount and almost the same performance (at that time, now 1080ti loses to 5700XT in most modern titles on 1080p and 1440p).
Also I'd like to mention that I've tried to OC my 1241 v3 via BCLK, got a better CB scores and higher clock speed, but it became unstable in all different sort of ways. If I get my hands on that 2670 v2, i know a person to ask for an advice.

View attachment 262525View attachment 262526
My OC result.

BCLK is a bit tricky but as far as I know it does not work very well on X99 and most likely people can't go above 103-105 on BCLK....on the other hand on X79 people have much more success and usually can go in between 105-110 and sometimes above 110....personally I managed 115.1 with this CPU and it's been rock solid for years without Issues.....Yeah GPU's prices was horrific but now things are getting much better I am not in a hurry and still can live with R9 Fury for a while so I will wait a bit more and see what can I find for some reasonable price in a near future....BTW Are you happy with that 5700XT?

 

[Dr. Dro]

mesh was in hindsight a downgrade, 7900 and 9900k beaten fair and square in single threaded game performance, by their older sibling at same clocks.

One must keep in mind that Xeon processors are designed first and foremost for the HPC market/servers, with some lower core count models aimed at the workstation segment. In that sense, the mesh design is one of the fundamentals of what made possible to increase scalability (and thus density), resulting in a significant gain for their intended use case. The subsequent generations that Intel markets as 2nd and 3rd gen Xeon Scalable processors achieve ever higher densities and the performance has grown substantially faster. Since then, Intel has also gone the "chiplet" way (with multi-die MCMs) despite calling EPYC "glued together" and 4th Gen Scalable (Sapphire Rapids) processor will further add on-package HBM, so at this point they're in a completely different league than the Wellsburg platform that housed Haswell and Broadwell. Innovation is picking up

 

[Socket2011]

Let me interrupt this current narrative... Any thoughts on E5-2670 v2? Anyone tried gaming with it, how much underwhelming is it due to its low single core performance?

​

I had the 2670V2 on a ASUS P9X79 . My last "baby"... 1080 on it , or my V4 ... just a few frames/sec difference. Only reason I upgraded was for NVMe and all those true 6gb sata channels
on the X99.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Let me interrupt this current narrative... Any thoughts on E5-2670 v2? Anyone tried gaming with it, how much underwhelming is it due to its low single core performance?

​

Sorry I missed this, but yeah you should be ok with that CPU for 1080P or 1440P with a good GPU. With recent AAA titles, don't expect blazing performance but you should be able to get a steady 60FPS out of it. A 2667V2 would be a better choice for the high clocks unless you need the extra 2 cores for other tasks.

 

[Socket2011]

Sorry I missed this, but yeah you should be ok with that CPU for 1080P or 1440P with a good GPU. With recent AAA titles, don't expect blazing performance but you should be able to get a steady 60FPS out of it. A 2667V2 would be a better choice for the high clocks unless you need the extra 2 core for other tasks.

I was getting 100+ FPS on all 3 that I tested my sons GTX1080 with. the 3 were the 2658V2 , his 10700kf , and my new 2680V4. Processor did not seen to matter.
What I did notice ..... 2658V2 = 95W / 10700kf = 95W / and my V4 was only 70W , while running the same games. The comet lake would favor certain cores and turbo the hell
out of them. The 2 Xeons would favor all cores equally and rarely go past HFM.
I don't game , but I might get a cheap GTX1060 to "dabble". I still like my V4 XEON , ran cooler than the other 2 with just the intel stock cooler. neat looking cooler for a stock unit.
Blue "nuclear reactor" glow ... very quiet.

 

[N/A]

My 2470 was a severe bottleneck 80 FPS, uncertain if it was more, but I wouldn't bother changing it unless necessary, compared to a V4 that up to 100-120 FPS, broadwell at 3.2 is like ivy @ 4.0. Nvidia card tends to have more CPU driver overhead. AMD is less affected.

 

[Socket2011]

My 2470 was a severe bottleneck 80 FPS, uncertain if it was more, but I wouldn't bother changing it unless necessary, compared to a V4 that up to 100-120 FPS, broadwell at 3.2 is like ivy @ 4.0. Nvidia card tends to have more CPU driver overhead. AMD is less affected.

I just like how I only use 50-70W on the V4. The comet lake 10700 has the big Noctua cooler runs about the same 55C as the v4 with the stock. But I got 2 of those Intel stock's for
just 30$. 10700 Noctua cost 70+. Noctua does run cooler ... but it should - it is more expensive (and my son wanted it!)

 

[Toothless]

I just like how I only use 50-70W on the V4. The comet lake 10700 has the big Noctua cooler runs about the same 55C as the v4 with the stock. But I got 2 of those Intel stock's for
just 30$. 10700 Noctua cost 70+. Noctua does run cooler ... but it should - it is more expensive (and my son wanted it!)

Fuma 2 coolers work perfectly fine for Xeons. I've got two and with 100% load, they hang in the low 50s. Can post pic if wanted.

Also Fumas can be between 50-60 freedom dollars.

 

[Socket2011]

That looks like my son's Noctua. but his only has 1 fan.

 

[Toothless]

Fuuuuuuma. Yes its dusty.

 

[Sora]

One must keep in mind that Xeon processors are designed first and foremost for the HPC market/servers, with some lower core count models aimed at the workstation segment. In that sense, the mesh design is one of the fundamentals of what made possible to increase scalability (and thus density), resulting in a significant gain for their intended use case. The subsequent generations that Intel markets as 2nd and 3rd gen Xeon Scalable processors achieve ever higher densities and the performance has grown substantially faster. Since then, Intel has also gone the "chiplet" way (with multi-die MCMs) despite calling EPYC "glued together" and 4th Gen Scalable (Sapphire Rapids) processor will further add on-package HBM, so at this point they're in a completely different league than the Wellsburg platform that housed Haswell and Broadwell. Innovation is picking up

View attachment 262529

Most of the Xeons in this topic are architecturally equivalent to the consumer core i and workstation xeons (and hedt homered), rather then the quite more expensive scalables (im sure someone has the money for one in here though).

You're also showing an example of a HBM integrated hpc part which may as well be a socketted cartridge on a multi-cart mainboard , which won't perform in the same ways as LGA single or dual cpu systems, the mesh design skylake used had various communication latency penalties that decreased IPC for single core work, any time any work had to be performed on the other cores.

 

[Wdoox]

Let me interrupt this current narrative... Any thoughts on E5-2670 v2? Anyone tried gaming with it, how much underwhelming is it due to its low single core performance?

​

why instead of 2670v2 not 2690v2?
10 cores 3.3ghz all core boost 3.6 single boost. You can oc the bclk to 110-113mhz.

 

[Toothless]

why instead of 2670v2 not 2690v2?
10 cores 3.3ghz all core boost 3.6 single boost. You can oc the bclk to 110-113mhz.

2687wv2 is better. I know someone with a dual socket of the V1 and they can play games just fine with a Titan X. Only issue is 8 cores instead of 10.

 

[Wdoox]

2687wv2 is better. I know someone with a dual socket of the V1 and they can play games just fine with a Titan X. Only issue is 8 cores instead of 10.

I was just watching video (craft computing) of that cpu it is very good and since that is v2 he can be overclock on bclk 110-115.