Zen 2 - a lesson in hypetrains

[Xzibit]

I think you are taking this too personal and reading things from my posts that are not there. I haven't bashed AMD once (in fact praised them numerous times), or said that Zen 2 or its win over Intel is bad (I literally just wrote "[AMD had a] run at the CPU throne, which they just now deservedly won" in the post you are responding to). In any case, this discussion has never been about AMD themselves, or Intel or any other. It's about people hyping the products too much, and how they end up falling short of the hype and creating false disappointment, as the products are often good by themselves. Don't deviate from this topic please. As 95Viper understated: "Behave and stay on topic".

You been a member since 2015. Its common here (TPU). Your original post just quotes 1 person and references 1 other. Its not like a group or mob mentality. If you are putting too much weight on one individuals opinions to influence the community, That's a separate issue entirely.

 

[Deleted member 157276]

You been a member since 2015. Its common here (TPU). Your original post just quotes 1 person and references 1 other. Its not like a group or mob mentality. If you are putting too much weight on one individuals opinions to influence the community, That's a separate issue entirely.

Said individual had the support of his belifes (to some or entire extents) by at least 3-4 other individuals in that very thread I quoted. Also, the predictions he provided was just a case example, but I could very well have provided examples of other posts in other threads on both Techpowerup and other communities. AdoredTV's "leaks" alone, which was "conservative" compared to those of the user on the TPU thread, brought exaggarated and unrealistic Zen 2 hype into the mainstream, making much of the community actually expecting 16 core Ryzen 3@5 GHz.

 

[moproblems99]

One mans 40% , another mans 15% can become a 8% reality.

The products not even out and both can be wrong. I suspect that since a slide was show at Computex 2019 it was an opportunity to say, "My guess is closer than yours". Well come on down, The price is Right!!!

I just don't see the point of this thread. So a few people are slinging around stuff which likely won't be true, it doesn't do anything. It's not going to shift the market, the thread contents aren't plastered on the page, and it doesn't change anything on release day.

A few people running a hype train impacts nothing. Don't want to see hype? Don't open it.

 

[Deleted member 157276]

As to whether it "changes anything", I would argue AdoredTV's hype did change something and had a great impact on people's expectations. It definitely wasn't just isolated incidents, but fairly community-wide. To the point that you even had sites like Hardware Unboxed making articles dedicated to rebuking that very AdoredTV prediction video.

 

[moproblems99]

As to whether it "changes anything", I would argue AdoredTV's hype did change something and have a great impact. It definitely wasn't just isolated incidents, but fairly community-wide.

AdoredTV is not the same as a thread on TPU with 3 to 4 people in it.

 

[mtcn77]

Policing the forums should lay with the moderators, although if we are grasping at straws to censure, I can testify there are much thicker doomsayers than AdoredTV which is on the silly spectrum of internet conspirators.

 

[Deleted member 157276]

AdoredTV is not the same as a thread on TPU with 3 to 4 people in it.

One TPU thread with 3-4 people were only used as examples -- I wasn't collecting data on all cases on the entire internet. The point of the thread was to criticize hype in general, and those 3-4 people, precisely due to the nature of their content and because it happened on TPU, were used as prime examples.

I'm not even interested in policing anything. People ought to be allowed to say and do whatever they want. I'm more interested in the lack of competence that leads to hype, and I'm hoping we could discuss that and put attention to it, so at least some people, including those I referenced (one of them is very active on this forum), can learn from it.

 

[moproblems99]

One TPU thread with 3-4 people were only used as examples -- I wasn't collecting data on all cases on the entire internet. The point of the thread was to criticize hype in general, and those 3-4 people, precisely due to the nature of their content and because it happened on TPU, were used as prime examples.

I'm not even interested in policing anything. People ought to be allowed to say and do what they want. I'm more interested in the lack of competence that leads to hype, and am hoping we could discuss that and put attention to it, so at least some people, including those I referenced, can learn from. Maybe I'm naive there...idk.

I bet the percentage of number of hype threads are in the single digits - certainly less than 15%. There are likely a similar number of people that do nothing but poop on red, green, or blue. A few come to mind right now. Is that worse than hyping? Does it cancel it out?

 

[Xzibit]

As to whether it "changes anything", I would argue AdoredTV's hype did change something and had a great impact on people's expectations. It definitely wasn't just isolated incidents, but fairly community-wide. To the point that you even had sites like Hardware Unboxed making articles dedicated to rebuking that very AdoredTV prediction video.

Hardware Unboxed disclosed in one of their Computex 2019 videos that AMD asked them to not do articles at that time because it was misleading. Other media have mentioned it as well, GN. It didn't stop them from including it in their News tho did it. Got to get that traffic to look more appealing for advertising.

 

[mtcn77]

The objection that I have with critique against forum threads is the forum influencers - what is suggested as a non-hype medium implies everyone who posts AMD be a social influencer and be professional, not an amateur. This is a forum, nobody has to tow the line eventhough we get thread bans for the slightest elaboration.

 

[Deleted member 157276]

I bet the percentage of number of hype threads are in the single digits - certainly less than 15%. There are likely a similar number of people that do nothing but poop on red, green, or blue. A few come to mind right now. Is that worse than hyping? Does it cancel it out?

If that's what you'll go by (as in posts), then surely you cannot ignore AdoredTV's Ryzen 3000 leak video, which has almost 250K views and likes in the tens of thousands. In the PC Hardware enthusiast community that's a lot. Although I'm more than happy to track down more examples of "wrong" hype of Zen 2 in other threads on TPU and AnandTech, where I actively read (most of the hype is inspired by AdoredTV, after December, 2018). I've seen the stuff too often for it to only be discarded as anecdotal cases. I'm sure you have too.

Got to get that traffic to look more appealing for advertising.

I think you misunderstood my initial post about this topic. I was referring to the relationship as institutional, not direct (as in the news sites being directly controlled, although "flak", as is the case of complaint or contact to the press to change their opinion, is certainly one such filter). The book "Manufacturing Consent" explains this in detail and much better than I ever can, and I highly suggest you read it. "The Business of Media: Corporate Media and the Public Interest" is another great piece.

 

[mtcn77]

Good thing we got that covered. You can refer to Adam Curtis' documentaries, he goes at length at breaking down the irrational impulses psycological marketers use to move merchandise. I cannot form the association, though. If AMD moved away from the times of bulldozer marketing which got heavy flak for the influencer involved, I believe at ocuk; that is a good thing.

 

[Deleted member 157276]

Adam, not Alan, for those who'll want follow up on your great advise (just so they don't end up with videos of Alan Curtis, the footballer). I certainly highly recommend them
(The Century of the Self and Hypernormalisation, both can be found on YouTube). A documentary version of Manufacturing Consent is on YouTube as well, for that matter.

 

[mtcn77]

Yet, you haven't justified why you wish AMD to buy out every social influencer, so you can hold them accountable. I can relate, but only because I understand your perspective is anchored to Vendor A. AMD is not the false-self, they can and will emphasize any benchmark to their advantage and not literally hand their engineers' leash over to an HR executive - that guy who is an accountant isn't the CEO, he is vice president to the HR executive to organize her affairs for her.

 

[Deleted member 157276]

Yet, you haven't justified why you wish AMD to buy out every social influencer, so you can hold them accountable.

You mean me? If so, I never said I wished that...nor would I ever do so, as it is strictly in contradiction to my beliefs. My critique of corporate influence of media has been negatively loaded. I see it as the source of public disinformation.

 

[mtcn77]

Well, AMD literally doesn't pay its influencers. Not that I know of, if that makes it clearer. And at this time, it is a pipedream they will in the future which I approve. It is an engineering company with a physicist CEO which, to their credit, I wouldn't endorse no other organisational framework.

 

[micropage7]

actually i think AMD is riding the wave when Ryzen is pretty up, maybe too much expectation especially when they move to like 7nm fabrication with better performance

 

[R-T-B]

TIL my opinions on hypetrains are now unwanted.

I'd elaborate on why they are bad, but I did that already (RIP Mugabe), and I think the mods are growing tired of me.

 

[Deleted member 157276]

Well, AMD literally doesn't pay its influencers. Not that I know of, if that makes it clearer. And at this time, it is a pipedream they will in the future which I approve. It is an engineering company with a physicist CEO which, to their credit, I wouldn't endorse no other organisational framework.

I'm really confused. Who is saying they are paying (read: bribing) anybody to influence them positively? I certainly never did...you seem to be grasping at straws. If you are referring to my media critique, then you, like the user above, are seriously misunderstanding what I'm writing. Which is why I referenced the works I did, to help you better understand. If you want it condensed, look up "The Propaganda Model", and read it. I swear I remember Adam Curtis touching on this; I know he mentioned how modern PR industry was developed.

 

[HTC]

Say what you will about AdoredTV dude but here are some facts he advanced before anyone else, that i'm aware of:

1 - 1st person to even mention chiplets (most of this video is about chiplets)
2 - 1st person to mention an Epyc CPU with 9 chiplets (this video is actually the same as the one above, posted 30 June last year: timestamped to the relevant bit)
3 - 1st person to mention how Milan is supposed to change Epyc, with supposedly 15 chiplets (2nd to mention 4 way SMT): another hype train in the making ...

Regarding both Ryzen 3K series and Navi leaks: he sure did hype it but where i think he really messed up was with the pricing. Had he posted everything else in those videos except that and it could be much more believable, IMO. He really trashed the brakes on the hype train with that one.

How about yet another hype train (also Zen 3)?

 

[GoldenX]

We just need some Intel and Nvidia hypes to balance things out.

 

[Xzibit]

How about yet another hype train (also Zen 3)?

So behind the times. AMDs Mike Clark already said they were working on Zen5.

We just need some Intel and Nvidia hypes to balance things out.

Since Intel already announced you have to wait for the same thing i9-9900KS until Q4. The leaked Dell roadmap has nothing exciting ahead.
&
Nvidia has that SUPER thing tho.

 

[GoldenX]

So behind the times. AMDs Mike Clark already said they were working on Zen5.



Since Intel already announced you have to wait for the same thing i9-9900KS until Q4. The leaked Dell roadmap has nothing exciting ahead.
&
Nvidia has that SUPER thing tho.

I mean something to hype for, we know how the KS will perform, we knew that since people overclocks Skylake and Kabylake to 5GHz. And SUPER could mean anything, even a console to compete against Stadia.

 

[mtcn77]

I'm really confused. Who is saying they are paying (read: bribing) anybody to influence them positively? I certainly never did...you seem to be grasping at straws. If you are referring to my media critique, then you, like the user above, are seriously misunderstanding what I'm writing. Which is why I referenced the works I did, to help you better understand. If you want it condensed, look up "The Propaganda Model", and read it. I swear I remember Adam Curtis touching on this; I know he mentioned how modern PR industry was developed.

I think you misunderstand, I didn't talk about bribing. I meant it as far as social engineers go: AMD does not have them. Your answer will not come in the form of them, that is the problem.

 

[RichF]

I just don't see the point of this thread.

The OP is talking about the entire field of marketing.

Marketing is about confusing people with emotion and lies to get them to part with more of their money than they should. That is, of course, what we call profit. It's profit for some but not necessarily for others. More broadly, the topic becomes our entire existence. From the point of view of the universe, nothing we do makes the slightest bit of difference. Our lives are utterly insignificant so we have to live based on illusions. So, really, hype is what keeps us alive.

Anyway, Poor Volta wasn't an overclocker's dream.