Friday, December 3rd 2021

Intel Negotiates 3nm Allocation with TSMC Even as Pat Gelsinger Cautions Against Investing in Taiwan

by
btarunr
 Discuss (53 Comments)
Intel is reportedly in talks with TSMC to secure foundry allocation to meet its product roadmap execution. The company is sending an executive delegation to meet with TSMC later this month, to secure foundry capacity for the N3 (3 nm) silicon fabrication node, and ensure that Intel's allocation isn't affected by other customers such as Apple. As part of its IDM 2.0 strategy, Intel has decided to build its products essentially as multi-chip modules with each block of IP built on a silicon fabrication node most optimal to it, so the company maximizes cutting-edge foundry nodes only on the technology that benefits from it the most. N3 will play a vital role with logic/compute tiles in products bound for 2023, as N3 hits critical volume in the first half of the year.

In related news, Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger speaking at the Fortune Brainstorm Tech conference, stressed on the importance for American chip designers to seek out semiconductor manufacturing in America, and cautioned against investing in Taiwan (without naming TSMC). This comes in the wake of geopolitical uncertainty in the region. In response to this statement issued to DigiTimes, TSMC CEO Mark Liu downplayed the matter, and said that Gelsinger's statement wasn't worth responding to, and that he doesn't slander industry colleagues. TSMC and Samsung have each announced multi-billion Dollar foundry investments in the US, in attempts to make the global semiconductor supply chains resilient to any security situation that may emerge in East Asia.
Sources: DigiTimes, Chiakokhua (Twitter), Nikkei Asia

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53 Comments on Intel Negotiates 3nm Allocation with TSMC Even as Pat Gelsinger Cautions Against Investing in Taiwan

#1
Chomiq
Pat needs to learn when to shut up.
Posted on Reply
#2
Totally
ChomiqPat needs to learn when to shut up.
I think that should apply to Intel as a whole, too often be it pr or marketing they lovw shove their foot in their own mouths to the point it's almost become an artform
Posted on Reply
#3
londiste
ChomiqPat needs to learn when to shut up.
Why?
Posted on Reply
#4
john_
ChomiqPat needs to learn when to shut up.
He is not doing something wrong here. He is smart to try to get what he can from everyone. 3nm capacity from TSMC and support plus money from the US government.
Posted on Reply
#5
Chomiq
londisteWhy?
That's why:
TSMC CEO Mark Liu downplayed the matter, and said that Gelsinger's statement wasn't worth responding to, and that he doesn't slander industry colleagues
You don't throw a comment like this right before you're about to start negotiations with your counterpart at TSMC.

TSMC doesn't need Intel, it's Intel that needs TSMC right now.
Posted on Reply
#6
londiste
ChomiqYou don't throw a comment like this right before you're about to start negotiations with your counterpart at TSMC.
TSMC doesn't need Intel, it's Intel that needs TSMC right now.
Intel is also competing with TSMC (and Micron and TI they mentioned, plus Samsung and others) for the money from US, which was the context of that comment. Which one is more time-critical, they probably know better. Intel is probably not in a very good standing with TSMC as a client anyway, they are competitors after all.
Posted on Reply
#7
Daven
Sometimes I just wish the executives at Intel would just retire. The company needs completely new management from the ground up that will change the business philosophy.
Posted on Reply
#8
Punkenjoy
I think Intel is totally clueless on how TMSC and many of these company do business. They want cooperation and long term commitment.

Intel isn't doing any of those so, yeah, they might get some supply from TSMC. But TMSC will prefer to give more support and allocation to their first hands partner like AMD and Apple.


They have a very American mind thinking they are dominant and they can set the market rules. They think they can intimidate TMSC.

Good luck with that. TMSC is selling every wafer they can produce.
Posted on Reply
#9
Pumper
PunkenjoyThey want cooperation and long term commitment.
That won't be relevant when CCP decides to take a ride to Taiwan in tanks, which is what the Intel guy was referring to.
Posted on Reply
#10
phanbuey
I love how butthurt some people got about Gelsinger's comments. He never said anything bad about TSMC. He pointed out the fact that they are located in a contested country that is bordered by a superpower with very clear and open intentions of taking it over.

Taiwanese will tell you the situation with China is precarious. The whole world says it all the time. We just saw John Cena issue an international apology for calling Taiwan a 'country'.

Gelsinger says it and "LEARN WHEN TO SHUT UP PAT"

Liu CAN'T respond to Gelsinger's statement, because if he did, China would not appreciate it. :)

So yes, his statement is for sure not worth responding to.
Posted on Reply
#11
klf
ChomiqPat needs to learn when to shut up.
da!!
Posted on Reply
#12
RedBear
Again, I don't see the controversy. The Joint Chief of Staff doesn't see China invading Taiwan before 2027, negotiating an order for 2023 isn't exactly the same as discussing about the implications in long term investments for new production capacity. I wonder if the TPU editors simply have a pro-Taiwan bias or they just hate Intel.
Posted on Reply
#13
AnarchoPrimitiv
Intel should have to use their own foundries only instead of making a small pie smaller
Posted on Reply
#14
HisDivineOrder
Intel is one of those companies that thinks that no matter what they do, they'll get away with it, and no one will wind up caring because the checks will soothe any sore feelings. "Do as I say do, do not do as I do," Intel tells you while they manufacture their best products elsewhere while telling you to use them to manufacture YOUR products.

Kind of amazing if anyone is even buying their pitch when they aren't even doing the majority of their main business on their own lines. I think that's the real reason they opened their fabs. They aren't planning on using them. They know better. They've seen what happens when they do.
Posted on Reply
#15
Easo
I am just going to repeat myself that there is a real risk regarding Taiwan and PRC. He might not be wrong and regardless - all eggs in one basket has never been a good idea.
Posted on Reply
#16
persondb
HisDivineOrderIntel is one of those companies that thinks that no matter what they do, they'll get away with it, and no one will wind up caring because the checks will soothe any sore feelings. "Do as I say do, do not do as I do," Intel tells you while they manufacture their best products elsewhere while telling you to use them to manufacture YOUR products.

Kind of amazing if anyone is even buying their pitch when they aren't even doing the majority of their main business on their own lines. I think that's the real reason they opened their fabs. They aren't planning on using them. They know better. They've seen what happens when they do.
I don't see where this is coming from. Pat Gelsing was just pointing out that Taiwan is a contested political region, so it doesn't make sense to invest even more so in chip production as it's strategic manufacturing at this point.

You don't want all your chips to be manufactured in a single political hot area. I am not saying that war will erupt there or not, but if it does then it will affect the whole world.

He did say that Samsung and TSMC are getting large subsidies from their home countries and that isn't wrong. Not really slandering either.

Honestly, if you are going to invest large quantities of public money(tax payer) then you should it in a way that benefits the tax payer and doing so to your local companies is the best way to keep wealth in the country. And that's true for S.Korea, Taiwan or the USA.
Posted on Reply
#17
thesmokingman
AnarchoPrimitivIntel should have to use their own foundries only instead of making a small pie smaller
It does show who is at the top of the semi food chain though.
Posted on Reply
#18
TheLostSwede
News Editor
RedBearAgain, I don't see the controversy. The Joint Chief of Staff doesn't see China invading Taiwan before 2027, negotiating an order for 2023 isn't exactly the same as discussing about the implications in long term investments for new production capacity. I wonder if the TPU editors simply have a pro-Taiwan bias or they just hate Intel.
Or maybe Pat should've kept his opinion to himself? Do you trash your competitors publicly just to go and negotiate a deal with them the following week? That's the issue here and it's not how things are done. Good luck to Intel getting a deal with TSMC after this.
Posted on Reply
#19
R0H1T
PumperThat won't be relevant when CCP decided to take a ride to Taiwan in tanks, which is what the Intel guy was referring to.
At that point in time US won't be the only nation affected, pretty much every nation will have more than one eye on those tanks! Of course that's highly unlikely to happen, any such invasion ~ if it wants to succeed, will have to be bloodless. Tanks will not win Taiwan & if they have have to pretty sure there could be another WW.
Posted on Reply
#20
Why_Me
R0H1TAt that point in time US won't be the only nation affected, pretty much every nation will have more than one eye on those tanks! Of course that's highly unlikely to happen, any such invasion ~ if it wants to succeed, will have to be bloodless. Tanks will not win Taiwan & if they have have to pretty sure there could be another WW.
And other than the US who has the capabilities to even attempt to defend Taiwan. Let's be real here .. if there is a war it will be the US taking the brunt of it. With that said Gelsinger is correct .. Taiwan is a risk when you're depending on them to supply chips for your country's auto, aeronautical and defense industry.
Posted on Reply
#21
R0H1T
Why_MeAnd other than the US who has the capabilities to even attempt to defend Taiwan
If push comes to shove US will not defend Taiwan, just like they didn't defend Ukraine. Capability means jack if you aren't willing to take the aggressor head on!
Posted on Reply
#22
Why_Me
R0H1TIf push comes to shove US will not defend Taiwan, just like they didn't defend Ukraine. Capability means jack if you aren't willing to take the aggressor head on!
Ukraine borders four EU countries. Where was the EU when Ukraine was invaded?
Posted on Reply
#23
londiste
Why_Me
R0H1TIf push comes to shove US will not defend Taiwan, just like they didn't defend Ukraine. Capability means jack if you aren't willing to take the aggressor head on!
Ukraine borders four EU countries. Where was the EU when Ukraine was invaded?
It also was a close Russian ally right until the conflict, borders with Russia and Belarus are a lot longer than with any other countries - and were not exactly marked and guarded at that, Moldova has their own troubles for now. Not even to mention political realities both inside and outside Ukraine which are a lot more complex than PRC vs ROC.
Posted on Reply
#24
Vayra86
They say candles burn brightest right before they get snuffed out.

Eh, Pat.
phanbueyI love how butthurt some people got about Gelsinger's comments. He never said anything bad about TSMC. He pointed out the fact that they are located in a contested country that is bordered by a superpower with very clear and open intentions of taking it over.

Taiwanese will tell you the situation with China is precarious. The whole world says it all the time. We just saw John Cena issue an international apology for calling Taiwan a 'country'.

Gelsinger says it and "LEARN WHEN TO SHUT UP PAT"

Liu CAN'T respond to Gelsinger's statement, because if he did, China would not appreciate it. :)

So yes, his statement is for sure not worth responding to.
Butthurt? No. Laughable, and every time a tremendous show of weakness.
Posted on Reply
#25
phanbuey
Vayra86They say candles burn brightest right before they get snuffed out.

Eh, Pat.



Butthurt? No. Laughable, and every time a tremendous show of weakness.
Weakness for sure. US semiconductors are weak now.

There are no US fabs that can touch 5nm and there are only high-end 2 Fab companies in the world - Samsung and TSMC. All of US chip companies rely on them. There's only one company ASML, that makes UV lithography machines at that level.

We are absolutely in a state of weakness, which is what Pat is saying.
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