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Time to update the motherboards layout!

Do you support the idea for a modern motherboards layout?

  • Yes

    Votes: 14 29.2%
  • No

    Votes: 34 70.8%

  • Total voters
    48

ARF

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So, because the motherboards remain unchanged for 20 or even 30 years, I think the legacy motherboards layout and the components placement do not work optimally and efficiently any more.
We've got extremely power hungry and hot CPUs and GPUs which are placed next to each other and dump hot air over each other.

I think the GPUs placement should be on top, preferably in a separate compartment, isolated from the other PC parts, just like today we put the PSUs in own compartments.
Also, the GPUs should be turned with the fans upward, and the fans should pull hot air from the PCB upward, in order to naturally accelerate the heat dumping convection process.
Heat moves upwards. Hot air is lighter, cold air is heavier.

1712919226990.png
 
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The problem would then be cable management, either for the cables that the GPU needs or all the cables that connect to the outer edges of the motherboard.
It just seems like you are inverting a problem. Interesting idea though.
 
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I like the horizontal memory slots, but the pcie slot will be incompatible with existing products and also limit the cpu cooler space. It also lacks expandibility with more pcie slots
 
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Dell already tried this with BTX form factor since LGA775, nobody esle cared. If not a global standard that drives prices down (production) not many will notice.

1712922983785.png
 
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So, uh, where does the I/O go on your example? I assume still the top left, just lower, since thats where the GPU will be with its ports. But that potentially would interfere with the RAM slots and CPU VRM. In short, I don’t think you’ve thought this through fully.
 

ARF

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The problem would then be cable management, either for the cables that the GPU needs or all the cables that connect to the outer edges of the motherboard.
It just seems like you are inverting a problem.

The cables can be longer. 20-30 cm longer PCIe power cables wouldn't be a problem.

I like the horizontal memory slots, but the pcie slot will be incompatible with existing products and also limit the cpu cooler space. It also lacks expandibility with more pcie slots

Well, since CrossFire and SLi are no longer promoted?

Interesting idea though.

Thanks.

So, uh, where does the I/O go on your example? I assume still the top left, just lower, since thats where the GPU will be with its ports. But that potentially would interfere with the RAM slots and CPU VRM. In short, I don’t think you’ve thought this through fully.

There are already PC cases which rotate the motherboard by 90°.
 
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Keullo-e

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I can't even imagine the amount of waste what a significant change like that would make since ATX has been the main standard since 1995.

Dell already tried this with BTX form factor since LGA775, nobody esle cared. If not a global standard that drives prices down (production) not many will notice.

View attachment 343166
BTX was actually Intel's idea, I've seen few Asus microBTX OEM back in the day as well.
 
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Aren't there VRM's needed in your "Modern Layout" ?....
 
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There are already PC cases which rotate the motherboard by 90°C.
I fail to see what this has to do with my question. Is the MoBo I/O in your example in-line with the GPU I/O or not? Does the I/O interfere with the memory modules and VRM or not?
It’s not about the rotation angle. It’s about the overall layout.
 

ARF

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I fail to see what this has to do with my question. Is the MoBo I/O in your example in-line with the GPU I/O or not? Does the I/O interfere with the memory modules and VRM or not?
It’s not about the rotation angle. It’s about the overall layout.

I intentionally didn't put them because that can be a free design choice and is not the main goal here. Just put them wherever you wish.
The main goal here is to solve the oversized GPUs problem which cook all other PC parts in a hot PC case.
Look at the Radeon RX 7900 XTX/XT and RTX 4090/4080, they can be cooled passively if put in the right environment.

1712925481020.png
 
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I intentionally didn't put them because that can be a free design choice and is not the main goal here. Just put them wherever you wish.
The main goal here is to solve the oversized GPUs problem which cook all other PC parts in a hot PC case.
That’s putting the cart before the horse then, I am afraid. The I/O and power management is what actually dictates the form-factor. That, and trace length nowadays. Changing a well established standard (that the entire PC industry agreed upon, not just motherboard vendors, by the by) just to accommodate GPU manufacturers who decided, stupidly, that pushing 100 watts more into a chip to achieve 5-10% better performance is a sane and reasonable thing to do is asinine. Just legislatively limiting GPU power consumption ceiling to, I dunno, 280 watts would be a saner alternative to uprooting the entire ecosystem in order to accommodate their inane pursuit of every ounce of performance.
Look at the Radeon RX 7900 XTX/XT and RTX 4090/4080, they can be cooled passively if put in the right environment.
Sure, anything can be cooled passively in theory provided you slap a big enough chunk of metal on it. It’s not practical in any sense, but it’s doable.
 
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Hi,
Yeah making mother boards especially designed for gpu on top well you can already do that in a upside down sinners case or a longer riser cable hehe

But for the most part gpu air coolers are sick silly sized/ noisy and so bad that to me water is the only way to go so I'd lean more to hybrid gpu's or full water blocks way before clogging the top of the case with a "air cooled" gpu.
 
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never change a running system.
everything is somewhat standarized and compatible and there is no real reason to change anything except to make room for even more cosmetic nonsense.
 
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I don't see thick and hot GPUs as anywhere near enough reason to force a change to the standard. It's not an issue you can't already address via liquid cooler or better fans / case. Natural convection direction is essentially irrelevant for PCs unless you have little to no airflow. You aren't going to see any difference if you align your airflow with convection vs unaligned. If there were a significant benefit for systems with fans, Desktop and servers would be taking advantage of it.
 
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So, because the motherboards remain unchanged for 20 or even 30 years, I think the legacy motherboards layout and the components placement do not work optimally and efficiently any more. We've got extremely power hungry and hot CPUs and GPUs which are placed next to each other and dump hot air over each other.

I think the GPUs placement should be on top, preferably in a separate compartment, isolated from the other PC parts, just like today we put the PSUs in own compartments. Also, the GPUs should be turned with the fans upward, and the fans should pull hot air from the PCB upward, in order to naturally accelerate the heat dumping convection process. Heat moves upwards. Hot air is lighter, cold air is heavier.
As people have said above, BTX flopped because it would basically mean making two lots of every motherboard = lower economies of scale = everything cost more for everyone and from what I rememeber, retailers didn't even want to stock many of them due to lower sales. It was almost as bad as that "MATX drought" we had in the mid 2010's. If the issue is you want the GPU facing onto an air intake, then "cube" ITX cases with side intakes and top exhausts have long solved that. For ATX / MATX, inverted ATX cases have been around ages.

Besides which, sleek, understated, good looking optimal airflow cases don't actually matter anymore ever since ugly Rainbow Vomit Greenhouses became the in-thing... ;)
 
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BTX was actually Intel's idea
Right. Dell was one of several who released BTX Form Factor systems. And while the new design was good, it just did not offer any significant improvements and so it was not well received by the manufacturing industries, or more significantly the consumers, big and small.

The problem is MUCH MUCH BIGGER than I suspect many realize.

First, you cannot simply change an entire motherboard layout and be done. The current ATX Form Factor standard dictates, among many other things, the exact location for where every motherboard mounting hole may be positioned. That means components cannot go there, or block access to those locations. It also means cases must support those same locations by ensuring case standoff mounting locations precisely align with motherboard mounting holes.

Expansion slots must precisely align in the case with the slots/sockets on the motherboard. Same with the rear panel I/O sections.

Power supply cable lengths are currently influenced by the expected location of various sockets.

It was a MASSIVE accomplishment just to get the AT, and later ATX Form Factor standard accepted and implemented across multiple industries way back in the day. It ONLY worked back then because all those manufacturers had one common objective and a common enemy! They wanted to break the monopoly IBM had on the PC market. They wanted to build IBM PC "clones".

And note such an agreement was attempted to standardize form factors with laptops - but that failed! Why? Because makers had already created, and wanted to continue to do their own thing the way they were currently doing it. And no way did they want to change their entire design and manufacturing to their competitor's format.

So to make such drastic changes today for the PC would require a consensus on a MASSIVE scale. Not just every motherboard maker would have to agree to retool their entire design and manufacturing machine to the new standards, so too would case makers and PSU makers and perhaps many peripheral makers too. Not going to happen.

Also, the GPUs should be turned with the fans upward, and the fans should pull hot air from the PCB upward, in order to naturally accelerate the heat dumping convection process.
Heat moves upwards. Hot air is lighter, cold air is heavier.
I don't agree with this. Yes, hot air rises. So "IF" the graphics card is "passively" cooled (no fan, heatsink only), then it might make sense to turn the card over so the heat sink is facing up. But these days and on, new builds that don't need a powerful graphics solution simply use integrated graphics. No GPU heatsink or fan required.

And again, these days and on, most cards have and will have a fan or fans to negate the "heat rises" issue (in a properly cooled case). The more power hungry, heat generating GPUs are often mounted on double and triple height cards with fans that resolve this issue simply by channeling the heated air directly out the back of the case. Issue solved.

It is then, again, up to the case and ultimately the computer builder/user to properly configure case cooling to ensure there is an ample supply of cool air flowing through the case to support GPU cooling too. And that is NOT hard - AS LONG AS the builder/user does their homework when researching and doesn't try to cut corners or trim the budget in the wrong places when selecting their case for the build.

So a totally new form factor standard is not going to happen! There just isn't any big advantage or incentive for manufacturers or consumers. A properly designed case, and properly configured case cooling can effectively cool even the most power hungry, heat generating components now.

Sure, there may be a few exceptions here and there with a tiny number of extreme monster builds. But exceptions don't make the rule. "Hardcore" gamers and "extreme performance" enthusiasts need to remember they are but a small "niche" market in the grand scale of the entire "PC" industry. Please note: I chose my words and emphasis very carefully there - read it again before you disagree. There are millions and millions of gamers out there, but most cannot be classified as hardcore or extreme performance enthusiasts. In fact, most gamers don't even game on "PCs". The majority game on mobile computers and consoles, not PCs.

Minor tweaks have and will continue to happen. We see it all the time with things like new versions of USB ports, or drive interfaces, power connections, etc. One such big change that did come about from the BTX proposal was PSU placement. In the past, all PSUs were placed at the top of the tower (right side of horizontal/desktop) cases. Today, many, if not most cases support bottom mounted PSUs. But even after that change, the "ATX" Form Factor standard remained the industry standard.
 
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anyone that can buy a cpu+gpu that gets "hot", and the funds for the eco system needed, to actually use them properly (board/psu),
should have at least the cpu on a ~150$ AIO (Arctic/Alphacool and others).

with rad set as exhaust (top/side), its reducing case temps enough, to not be an issue air-cooling the gpu.

and those with four digit gpus, can spend another ~150 for a full block, lowering vrm/chipset/drive temps even further.
i have not seen more than 65C on anything on my board, and i have a couple (temp) sensors..


my 2080s stays below 50C on full load (bench),
and for the 1-2h i cared to test, cpu doesnt go past 85C with "max" PBO limits that amd allows, and CB/Prime loads (bronze sample 5800/5950)
but i do have constant room temp..


in short: better spend the money on water-cooling, and as alphacool and others offer gpu blocks with switchable parts (similar to cpu sockel mounts for fans),
only the gpu heatsink part gets changed.
 
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anyone that can buy a cpu+gpu that gets "hot", and the funds for the eco system needed, to actually use them properly (board/psu),
should have at least the cpu on a ~150$ AIO (Arctic/Alphacool and others).
Well, that's a personal opinion - definitely not a technical fact.

A properly configured, quality case with a decent air HSF assembly properly mounted on the CPU can more than adequately provide proper cooling for the components inside AND do so more economically while being more friendly to the ecology.
 

Keullo-e

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Right. Dell was one of several who released BTX Form Factor systems. And while the new design was good, it just did not offer any significant improvements and so it was not well received by the manufacturing industries, or more significantly the consumers, big and small.

The problem is MUCH MUCH BIGGER than I suspect many realize.

First, you cannot simply change an entire motherboard layout and be done. The current ATX Form Factor standard dictates, among many other things, the exact location for where every motherboard mounting hole may be positioned. That means components cannot go there, or block access to those locations. It also means cases must support those same locations by ensuring case standoff mounting locations precisely align with motherboard mounting holes.

Expansion slots must precisely align in the case with the slots/sockets on the motherboard. Same with the rear panel I/O sections.

Power supply cable lengths are currently influenced by the expected location of various sockets.

It was a MASSIVE accomplishment just to get the AT, and later ATX Form Factor standard accepted and implemented across multiple industries way back in the day. It ONLY worked back then because all those manufacturers had one common objective and a common enemy! They wanted to break the monopoly IBM had on the PC market. They wanted to build IBM PC "clones".

And note such an agreement was attempted to standardize form factors with laptops - but that failed! Why? Because makers had already created, and wanted to continue to do their own thing the way they were currently doing it. And no way did they want to change their entire design and manufacturing to their competitor's format.

So to make such drastic changes today for the PC would require a consensus on a MASSIVE scale. Not just every motherboard maker would have to agree to retool their entire design and manufacturing machine to the new standards, so too would case makers and PSU makers and perhaps many peripheral makers too. Not going to happen.
Did BTX even made it to the DIY market? The only BTX boards I've ever seen were just in OEM machines.
 
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@Bill_Bright
i meant it more in the sense of spending additional money on "better" cooling (be it high end air or water, wont matter)
so that it doesnt require to change virtually everything on a MB, just to get decent temps.

ignoring that as soon as just the gpu is LC (even without the cpu), the "position" where it is located, wont matter,
making the whole MB "redesign", un-needed.

and since most big gpu chips now get offered with 240/280 AIOs, ppl dont even know how/put work into a (custom) loop...
or spend some bucks on a external gpu case, done.

my personal view is give me a full pcie slot (power/data) all the way on the bottom, so i can make use of cases
with 90* rotated MB, even if its in "either/or" sharing mode with the top/first slot
 
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So, because the motherboards remain unchanged for 20 or even 30 years, I think the legacy motherboards layout and the components placement do not work optimally and efficiently any more.
We've got extremely power hungry and hot CPUs and GPUs which are placed next to each other and dump hot air over each other.

I think the GPUs placement should be on top, preferably in a separate compartment, isolated from the other PC parts, just like today we put the PSUs in own compartments.
Also, the GPUs should be turned with the fans upward, and the fans should pull hot air from the PCB upward, in order to naturally accelerate the heat dumping convection process.
Heat moves upwards. Hot air is lighter, cold air is heavier.

View attachment 343155
So you want hot air of a cpu cooler which in this setup makes clearly of some air coolers a problem right up in to the gpu which make an already hot gpu run even hotter if you are current gpu. To turn the gpu way you are asking would mean GPU's would have to changed as well On top of computer cases would have to be changed as well to support that design. What you are proposing isn't a MB only change but also cpu coolers, video cards and cases now ALL have to be changed. An easier way to go about what you are proposing would be instead of changing the MB would be just design a case that mounts the board upside down You accomplice the same goal in the end and only change is pc case without having to make 2 complete parts.

edit: So people don't get idea wrong thinking gpu outputs will be inside No, flip the board vertically and mount it on otherside of the case. Orange line is where back side of the board is, move the CPU tray to red side so where red line is Now the backside. You move pci slots to top and cpu to bottom. Same basic goal of moving gpu to top accompliced, and no need to make a whole new product stack of MB, gpu's and maybe even cpu coolers. Only change would be cpu case which is far cheaper and won't segment the market.
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Moving the graphics card position up top and turning it over would possibly restrict cooling options (due to limited space) some enthusiasts currently enjoy.
 
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would be easier/simpler, just to offer ATX boards that are "extended" on the bottom part,
with the gpu slot as very last thing (no fan ports etc), and cases the are made for the gpu being in that location,
thus offering a separate "chamber", to isolate airflow, lowering temps.
 
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thus offering a separate "chamber",
Except PSUs are typically located at the bottom now so not sure how a separate chamber could be figured there.

Plus, it should be pointed out that one of the reasons the GPU card is located where it is now is to make the distance (the "bus") between the GPU and the CPU as short as possible to minimize latency issues.

It really is in the best place right now.
 
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