What's an inexpensive AIO product line with a strong pump and low price?

[cvaldes]

Please explain the qualities of the TR Frozen Notte and Magic Scenic V2, because they have very strong pumps with 5300 RPM, 1500 nL/min flow and 1.5M lift (head), and the AIOs are less than $75. My guess is there's something substandard aside from the fans being average and producing harmonic tones sometimes. The pump's MTBF is 40,000.

Never used it so I cannot comment.

That's a compelling theory, and would certainly mean they could get bulk discounts on the pumps they chose.

That's always a consideration to any manufacturer in any business, not just ones generating PC AIO radiators. You want to build an AIO radiator? There is no way you will be able to acquire the individual parts at a lower cost than Corsair, Cooler Master, Arctic buying in bulk.

Have you ever bought machine screws? A few from the little drawers at the hardware shop? What happens to the unit price if you buy a bag of 100? A box of 1000? Cases and cases?

Hell, you can't buy wheat flour at the same price as some large commercial bakery having this delivered by the pallet.

And you certainly can't buy retail electricity at the same rate as commercial accounts. The list goes on and on.

So, how come I didn't get significant improvement with one of the best consumer fans currently available? Yes, it could be that the testing didn't make my CPU hot enough, and I'll get around to testing that theory with Prime 95. Is there anything else you can think of?

As far as I can tell, the average 240mm AIO radiator has sufficient thermal capacity for almost all consumer CPUs. There might be a couple of high-end Intel frypans that will push a weaker 240mm AIO but most silicon can be handled by a $80 AIO.

I replace the included fans with other ones for acoustic improvement, i.e., less noise at the same thermal performance.

Nah, if I wanted all the perks, I'd be looking for an AIO with stellar fans on it. I'd be quite happy to buy the whole Frozen Notte line...except it's not complete. So, maybe you're right in that a full product line doesn't exist, but there are at least two product lines (TR) that meet my other criteria....And are inexpensive. ;P

This discussion thread is the first time I've heard of the TR products. I know nothing about them. I'll try to keep them in mind the next time I shop for an AIO but it will likely be several years in the future.

Which things does the CM ML series not check off (I realize that some of the sub-variants are not particularly good)?

I'm not sure they offer the same quality through their entire product line at this time. Like I said, my Cooler Master ML is pretty old. I only have experience with one of their products.

With EVGA, I only have experience with two of their products (120mm and 240mm from a previous Asetek head design). But that company is basically a zombie.

One thing I do look for in an AIO radiator is the warranty coverage. While not the sole criterium, I will include that in my decision whether or not I will buy one. I won't buy an AIO just because it has the longest warranty but then again I'm not sure how enthusiastic I'll feel about buying an AIO with a very short warranty period.

 

[kapone32]

There is no such thing as an cheap AIO with a powerful pump. They don't need to be. The manufacturer already knows the exact length of the loop and just needs a pump to handle that.

My guess is that these AIO manufacturers test several pumps while prototyping and select just one based on a balance of factors (performance, noise, cost, etc.). Most likely the same pump is used in multiple AIO radiator sizes so the smaller radiator sizes will have a pump that more than exceeds what is necessary to move coolant through the loop.

So if an AIO manufacturer offers 420, 360, 280, 240, 120 mm AIO radiator sizes, they will mostly just spec out a pump for the 420 mm radiator and know that everything else smaller will be well handled by that particular pump component.

Note that pump reliability isn't exclusively dependent on pump size; there are plenty of other factors involved (materials, build quality, manufacturing tolerances, design, whatever).

And as I've found out from fiddling with pump speeds in my various custom cooling loops as well as diddling with AIO pump speeds (via PWM or voltage), coolant flow velocity does not impact the cooling performance as much as fan speeds and selection.

That said, I have a number of AIOs in a variety of builds (not all AIO are currently being used) but the Arctic Liquid Freezer II product line performs very well (I have 240, 280, and 360 sizes of the LFII). There's also an LFIII 240 as well as older Cooler Master Master Liquid 240 and an old EVGA CLC 240. The latter is not particularly great (the coldplate design of this Asetek part is small) but currently it's on a Ryzen 5 5600X and is more than capable of handling this.

CPU & GPU AIOs

All-In-One water cooling for all Intel and AMD CPUs. AIO systems for Nvidia and AMD graphics cards.

shop.alphacool.com

 

[cvaldes]

[link to Alphacool shop products]

I'm not sure if I'd call Alphacool products inexpensive. They are competitively priced vis-a-vis other custom loop cooling product manufacturers.

It's worth nothing that the Alphacool AIO products on their website don't include shipping. I've purchased some things directly from them and the shipping charges (from Germany to the USA) are substantial.

OP has reiterated that he is looking for a bargain, that's his biggest concern. The fact that he lives in Ohio will require him to pay for additional shipping charges from Alphacool direct. In fact, the thread title emphasizes money twice ("inexpensive" and "low price" are both used).

Don't get me wrong I like Alphacool products (I own a couple of CPU waterblocks, a couple of GPU waterblocks, a reservoir, a pump, at least one radiator) but for sure their AIO products aren't "inexpensive".

 

[kapone32]

I'm not sure if I'd call Alphacool products inexpensive. They are competitively priced vis-a-vis other custom loop cooling product manufacturers.

It's worth nothing that the Alphacool AIO products on their website don't include shipping. I've purchased some things directly from them and the shipping charges (from Germany to the USA) are substantial.

OP has reiterated that he is looking for a bargain, that's his biggest concern. The fact that he lives in Ohio will require him to pay for additional shipping charges from Alphacool direct. In fact, the thread title emphasizes money twice ("inexpensive" and "low price" are both used).

Don't get me wrong I like Alphacool products (I own a couple of CPU waterblocks, a couple of GPU waterblocks, a reservoir, a pump, at least one radiator) but for sure their AIO products aren't "inexpensive".

Yes I understand that and was going to add if you add Groovesland you get free World wide shipping. Since the OP lives in the States I would look at Aquatuning B stock if price is the issue. I think they even offer free shipping over a certain amount. Funny thing is for me ordering Alphacool from the US is way more expensive than ordering it from Germany.

 

[cvaldes]

Yes I understand that and was going to add if you add Groovesland you get free World wide shipping. Since the OP lives in the States I would look at Aquatuning B stock if price is the issue. I think they even offer free shipping over a certain amount. Funny thing is for me ordering Alphacool from the US is way more expensive than ordering it from Germany.

Nothing is free. If they offer free shipping regularly, they will build that into the retail price. It's not like avgas pumped into airplanes is free. Same with the diesel used to power transoceanic container ships. Pilots, sailors, cargo workers don't work for free either.

If he is looking for inexpensive AIO radiators per the discussion thread title, he really needs to look at US domestically available products or anything in the price range that has included shipping. Both the US dollar and euro are pretty strong which provides Americans no bargains in buying European products in 2024.

 

[TPCEA]

This discussion thread is the first time I've heard of the TR products. I know nothing about them. I'll try to keep them in mind the next time I shop for an AIO but it will likely be several years in the future.

You must be avoiding @freeagent, in that case, unless you only meant AIOs.

I'm not sure they offer the same quality through their entire product line at this time. Like I said, my Cooler Master ML is pretty old. I only have experience with one of their products.

You're saying that within any one specific AIO product line ranging from 120-420mm, just one variant, you're not sure the quality is the same on each size? :surprise: That's a massive condemnation of CM if I haven't misunderstood.

With EVGA, I only have experience with two of their products (120mm and 240mm from a previous Asetek head design). But that company is basically a zombie.

And here I thought that was EK. If EVGA is a zombie, then EK is a vampire or demon.

One thing I do look for in an AIO radiator is the warranty coverage. While not the sole criterium, I will include that in my decision whether or not I will buy one. I won't buy an AIO just because it has the longest warranty but then again I'm not sure how enthusiastic I'll feel about buying an AIO with a very short warranty period.

The radiator or the AIO as a whole? I think you mean as a whole since I've yet to see a warranty period for the rad only (but I haven't been looking for a warranty that's exclusive to the rad, or different from the rest of the AIO). Either that, or you're referring to the MTTF...?

I am not comfortable with really short warranty periods for two reasons. One, that suggests that the company is irresponsible and makes crap products and doesn't want to be held accountable. Two, I grew up with products that were made to last a VERY long time. These days, engineers are building planned obsolescence into almost everything.

But then, Aris of HW Busters/Cybenetics Labs, says that long warranties don't make sense. I understand his logic but I disagree. I don't know about what the quality of products used to be like in his country, though, or now.

Yes I understand that and was going to add if you add Groovesland you get free World wide shipping. Since the OP lives in the States I would look at Aquatuning B stock if price is the issue. I think they even offer free shipping over a certain amount. Funny thing is for me ordering Alphacool from the US is way more expensive than ordering it from Germany.

From reviews, Groovesland has a bad rep, which is why I haven't used them. Is that info wrong?

I was going to order stuff on sale at Performance PC's, but then I looked at my bank account and paid my car loan and....wellllllll....I'm not going to buy anything. What do you mean by Aquatuning B? I noticed one AC Ocean being sold with the label "B-ware". Is that it? What is that? Sadly, the cost of buying off Aquatuning is going to be pretty high since it is in Germany. I was going to get the Alphacool Core Ocean 360 for $60, but S&H is at least $30 to me!

If he is looking for inexpensive AIO radiators per the discussion thread title

Ah, but that's not what my title says. It says: "What's an inexpensive AIO product line with a strong pump and low price?" Yup, I got the price thing in twice...by accident - but I've made no mention of buying JUST radiators, nor did my OP state that. I was just exploring the alternative of building an AIO look-alike series for testing purposes. As was pointed out, this would likely be MORE expensive than buying AIOs.

 

[Vya Domus]

Not sure why do you need a powerful pump, the pump in AIOs is really only meant to move liquid over 1 block and 1 radiator and that's it. The pumps are pretty anemic but that's enough for what they're meant to do.

 

[kapone32]

You must be avoiding @freeagent, in that case, unless you only meant AIOs.

You're saying that within any one specific AIO product line ranging from 120-420mm, just one variant, you're not sure the quality is the same on each size? :surprise: That's a massive condemnation of CM if I haven't misunderstood.

And here I thought that was EK. If EVGA is a zombie, then EK is a vampire or demon.

The radiator or the AIO as a whole? I think you mean as a whole since I've yet to see a warranty period for the rad only (but I haven't been looking for a warranty that's exclusive to the rad, or different from the rest of the AIO). Either that, or you're referring to the MTTF...?

I am not comfortable with really short warranty periods for two reasons. One, that suggests that the company is irresponsible and makes crap products and doesn't want to be held accountable. Two, I grew up with products that were made to last a VERY long time. These days, engineers are building planned obsolescence into almost everything.

But then, Aris of HW Busters/Cybenetics Labs, says that long warranties don't make sense. I understand his logic but I disagree. I don't know about what the quality of products used to be like in his country, though, or now.

From reviews, Groovesland has a bad rep, which is why I haven't used them. Is that info wrong?

I was going to order stuff on sale at Performance PC's, but then I looked at my bank account and paid my car loan and....wellllllll....I'm not going to buy anything. What do you mean by Aquatuning B? I noticed one AC Ocean being sold with the label "B-ware". Is that it? What is that?

Ah, but that's not what my title says. It says: "What's an inexpensive AIO product line with a strong pump and low price?" Yup, I got the price thing in twice...by accident - but I've made no mention of buying JUST radiators, nor did my OP state that. I was just exploring the alternative of building an AIO look-alike series for testing purposes. As was pointed out, this would likely be MORE expensive than buying AIOs.

The problem with Groovesland is not then but the Courier of Choice they have. DHL are a den of thieves.

B series are things that don't have all the parts or may have cosmetic issues but work just fine.

 

[TPCEA]

Not sure why do you need a powerful pump, the pump in AIOs is really only meant to move liquid over 1 block and 1 radiator and that's it. The pumps are pretty anemic but that's enough for what they're meant to do.

I guess it boils down to physics. The more often the water goes through the rad, the more often heat is neutralized with ambient air. That's my theory. :shrug:

 

[dgianstefani]

I guess it boils down to physics. The more often the water goes through the rad, the more often heat is neutralized with ambient air. That's my theory. :shrug:

Dense modern dies have the bottleneck being the coldplate and how much coolant you can rapidly run over it.

Weak/small pumps located right over the major heatsource (CPU) also don't last long. Pumps are watercooled, so having them located at the hottest part of the loop is far from ideal.

Since AIOs have virtually no coolant reservoir buffer, fast flow rates are needed to avoid spikes in power causing spikes in temperatures, that lead to throttling.

 

[Vya Domus]

I guess it boils down to physics. The more often the water goes through the rad, the more often heat is neutralized with ambient air. That's my theory. :shrug:

The radiator and flow rate is not the bottleneck, the limitation is the block.

 

[cvaldes]

You must be avoiding @freeagent, in that case, unless you only meant AIOs.

Nah, you're reading too much into things. I don't read every single word everyone types here (or any other website on any other topic for that matter), whether they are community member, moderator, or staffer. There are people here whom I do routinely avoid but I won't disclose if anyone participating in this thread falls in that category.

You're saying that within any one specific AIO product line ranging from 120-420mm, just one variant, you're not sure the quality is the same on each size? :surprise: That's a massive condemnation of CM if I haven't misunderstood.

It's not a "massive condemnation" [sic] of Cooler Master. There are plenty of companies that make a wide range of product lines at different quality levels and price points not just PC component makers.

As I mentioned (I am definitely a broken record), I only have experience with ONE Cooler Master product. In fact, I offered CM as a possibility for you to consider because their MasterLiquid products are competitively priced (which falls into your thread title criteria).

I've toyed with the idea of picking up a $67 MasterLiquid 240mm AIO as a spare but it would just sit on a shelf collecting dust and I have plenty of PC hardware doing the same. I'll consider it more seriously when I'm in the market. But not today.

And here I thought that was EK. If EVGA is a zombie, then EK is a vampire or demon.

EK is actively marketing and releasing new products. EVGA is just shambling around aimlessly with limbs dropping off (like GPUs and motherboards). Go view EVGA's online store since you're apparently unclear about this.

The radiator or the AIO as a whole? I think you mean as a whole since I've yet to see a warranty period for the rad only (but I haven't been looking for a warranty that's exclusive to the rad, or different from the rest of the AIO). Either that, or you're referring to the MTTF...?

Naturally for the entire product. I sound like a broken record but the warranty isn't the sole criterium that I use for selecting products (PC hardware or otherwise).

I am not comfortable with really short warranty periods for two reasons. One, that suggests that the company is irresponsible and makes crap products and doesn't want to be held accountable. Two, I grew up with products that were made to last a VERY long time. These days, engineers are building planned obsolescence into almost everything.

But then, Aris of HW Busters/Cybenetics Labs, says that long warranties don't make sense. I understand his logic but I disagree. I don't know about what the quality of products used to be like in his country, though, or now.

If a product is well made, then offering a longer warranty period shouldn't be an issue. Someone in the accounting department can knows the average cost of a warranty replacement and how often they occur. After all it comes out of some budget bucket somewhere.

In many industrialized nations, offering a decent warranty period helps improve consumer confidence. In a highly competitive market, that will sit with the positives rather than being one of the minuses.

Maybe Aris lives in a place where product warranty coverage is not respected. I don't know. But anyone in the USA is protected to some extent by consumer protection laws and organizations like the Better Business Bureau.

From reviews, Groovesland has a bad rep, which is why I haven't used them. Is that info wrong?

I have no idea, I have never used Groovesland. This thread is the first I've heard of them. I don't claim to know everything about every possible PC cooling component from every retailers on the planet. It's not like I've spent $250K on PC cooling products. I'm not a reviewer and I don't get review samples either.

One thing for sure, I'm probably not going to spend days researching something that might be $50 out of pocket. I'll spend a little time and if I don't like it, I'll return it within the typical 14-day (or sometimes 30-day) customer satisfaction period.

I typically research a product when I'm considering it. But when I'm not, I generally ignore reviews and discussion. I don't plan on buying a stand mixer for my kitchen, so I'm not pouring over reviews or watching YouTube testimonials about Brand K's mixer or Brand C's mixer, etc. I'm not researching cordless screwdrivers, sneakers, or mattresses either.

Ah, but that's not what my title says. It says: "What's an inexpensive AIO product line with a strong pump and low price?" Yup, I got the price thing in twice...by accident - but I've made no mention of buying JUST radiators, nor did my OP state that. I was just exploring the alternative of building an AIO look-alike series for testing purposes. As was pointed out, this would likely be MORE expensive than buying AIOs.

Typically AIO when applied to the PC cooling product industry means an AIO radiator ("All In One" = pump, waterblock, radiator, fans, plus tubing and typically coolant), a standalone product with a single SKU.

A modular system like the Alphacool one that allows for expandability -- to me -- teeters on the edge of that AIO designation. Besides, these modular systems are considerably more expensive than true AIOs that aren't designed to be taken apart.

Since AIOs have virtually no coolant reservoir buffer, fast flow rates are needed to avoid spikes in power causing spikes in temperatures, that lead to throttling.

Power spikes occur regardless of the cooling method, whether it be air, AIO, passive, or custom loop. The workload causes power spikes not the cooling system. This is not specific to desktop PCs, it's the same for your smartphone, electric egg beater, Gameboy, Roku Streaming Stick, whatever.

What the cooling system does is return the system to a normal temperature. A better cooling system will have the thermal capacity to keep lower temperatures and return elevated temperatures back to normal more quickly. But it won't do anything about the power.

 

[dgianstefani]

Power spikes occur regardless of the cooling method, whether it be air, AIO, passive, or custom loop. The workload causes power spikes not the cooling system. This is not specific to desktop PCs, it's the same for your smartphone, electric egg beater, Gameboy, Roku Streaming Stick, whatever.

What the cooling system does is return the system to a normal temperature. A better cooling system will have the thermal capacity to keep lower temperatures and return elevated temperatures back to normal more quickly. But it won't do anything about the power.

Reread what I said.

 

[cvaldes]

Oh, I read it for sure.

The flow rate does not affect power spikes. The flow rate affects heat spikes. You have a few too many words in your statement.

Let me play armchair editor for you:

"Since AIOs have virtually no coolant reservoir buffer, fast flow rates minimize spikes in temperatures that can lead to throttling."

AIOs (or any cooling system) can do nothing about power spikes. The power usage comes from the transistors on the die.

And I have tons of AIOs (plus a few years of experience running custom cooling loops). A well designed and specced out loop (of either type) can typically handle spikes in a consumer PC without running the pump at full speed all the time.

I typically program AIO pumps to run at 50% (6V) at idle. Whenever possible I put a spin-up/spin-down delay of 5 seconds so things (both radiator fans and pump motors) aren't changing constantly at every single click on the PC keyboard. One does not need fast flow rates unless there is a sustained workload.

Why do I have so much familiarity with this? Because I HATE fan noise. I will do fan tuning on the hottest 2-3 days of the year because I know the rest of the year the computer will be even quieter.

 

[dgianstefani]

Oh, I read it for sure.

The flow rate does not affect power spikes. The flow rate affects heat spikes. You have a few too many words in your statement.

Let me play armchair editor for you:

"Since AIOs have virtually no coolant reservoir buffer, fast flow rates minimize spikes in temperatures that can lead to throttling."

Dense modern dies have the bottleneck being the coldplate and how much coolant you can rapidly run over it.

Weak/small pumps located right over the major heatsource (CPU) also don't last long. Pumps are watercooled, so having them located at the hottest part of the loop is far from ideal.

Since AIOs have virtually no coolant reservoir buffer, fast flow rates are needed to avoid spikes in power causing spikes in temperatures, that lead to throttling.

You can either have a large thermal buffer in the form of a big reservoir, or very fast flow rate to absorb heatspikes from power spikes before the CPU throttles down or the boost algorithm decides to be less aggressive.

There's nothing wrong with my wording.

Any custom loop builder worth their salt will base their fan curve off their coolant temperature, since they know temporary CPU fluctuations are irrelevant, it's the coolant temperature that needs to be the highest temperature delta below the die. This avoids rapid and constant fan speed fluctuation (which has little effect) in response to short term minor temperature changes.

Another way to do it is to have a fan speed change offset time, so a second long temperature difference won't instantly ramp up the fans.

And I have tons of AIOs (plus a few years of experience running custom cooling loops). A well designed and specced out loop (of either type) can typically handle spikes in a consumer PC without running the pump at full speed all the time.

True for a custom loop with a nice volume of liquid, less true for AIOs where bursty workloads will saturate the coolant quickly.

You want the temperature delta to be maximum between the die and the coolant over the coldplate fins. Coolant staying for too long will warm up and the thermal transfer efficiency will drop. Same reason heatsink fins or other types of surface area to dissipate thermal energy into the surrounding environment work best when there's higher deltas between the fins and the environment.

 

[cvaldes]

Again, flow rate doesn't affect spikes in power. The spikes are caused by workload on the CPU transistors.

As I mentioned, I use fan speed offsets to improve acoustics.

For my two custom loops, I used inline thermal sensors placed after the GPU waterblock exhaust. That reading was used to control the GPU radiator fans.

 

[dgianstefani]

I think you'll find most stock AIOs have pumps running at high speeds out of the box on the default fan curves, because the OEMs know this.

Again, flow rate doesn't affect spikes in power. The spikes are caused by workload on the CPU transistors.

As I mentioned, I use fan speed offsets to improve acoustics.

For my two custom loops, I used inline thermal sensors placed after the GPU waterblock exhaust. That reading was used to control the GPU radiator fans.

What is the association with spikes in power and spikes in temperature. It's exceedingly obvious that power spikes are caused by the heatsource.

Again, reread what I said.

fast flow rates are needed to avoid spikes in power causing spikes in temperatures,

If you have a slow flow rate, the spikes in power will cause spikes in local temperatures, because the coolant doesn't take the heat away fast enough.

This is also true for having not much coolant and slow thermal dissipation from a thin radiator and bad fans, like most AIOs do. Hence why they are repeatedly tested and found to be noisier than most air coolers since they almost always run the fans at high RPM and the pump close to max speed out of the box to make up for a thin radiator and very little volume of coolant, besides a weak pump and a cheap cold plate.

 

[cvaldes]

I think you'll find most stock AIOs have pumps running at high speeds out of the box on the default fan curves, because the OEMs know this.

As far as I can tell, it's often controlled by the motherboard header which the motherboard manufacturer pre-programs. Anyhow, it's wiser to let the pump run fast by default since they typically aren't very loud vis-a-vis other components in a desktop PC.

What is the association with spikes in power and spikes in temperature. It's exceedingly obvious that power spikes are caused by the heatsource.

Again, reread what I said.

I stand by my armchair editing. But don't worry, I'm not W1zzard. You'll still get your paycheck.



Anyhow back to the original topic. I have successfully run many AIOs in many builds with the AIO pump set at 50% on idle. And as coolant pumps in AIOs, none of them were very strong.

 

[dgianstefani]

I stand by my armchair editing.

The problem is you are reading the first half of the sentence as if it's standalone.
fast flow rates are needed to avoid spikes in power - obviously incorrect
to avoid spikes in power causing spikes in temperatures - correct

 

[TPCEA]

The radiator and flow rate is not the bottleneck, the limitation is the block.

I didn't mean to imply that the rad and flow were bottle-necking. That always happens at the smallest/narrowest point.

Nah, you're reading too much into things. I don't read every single word everyone types here (or any other website on any other topic for that matter), whether they are community member, moderator, or staffer. There are people here whom I do routinely avoid but I won't disclose if anyone participating in this thread falls in that category.

It was a joke.

It's not a "massive condemnation" [sic] of Cooler Master. There are plenty of companies that make a wide range of product lines at different quality levels and price points not just PC component makers.

It was an exaggeration because you were making an uninformed observation about a large number of products.

EK is actively marketing and releasing new products. EVGA is just shambling around aimlessly with limbs dropping off (like GPUs and motherboards). Go view EVGA's online store since you're apparently unclear about this.

I'll take your word on it. Have you seen the videos from Jay and Steve about EK and their perfidy?

Naturally for the entire product. I sound like a broken record but the warranty isn't the sole criterium that I use for selecting products (PC hardware or otherwise).

Nah, you're just making sure you're abundantly clear.

If a product is well made, then offering a longer warranty period shouldn't be an issue. Someone in the accounting department can knows the average cost of a warranty replacement and how often they occur. After all it comes out of some budget bucket somewhere.

In many industrialized nations, offering a decent warranty period helps improve consumer confidence. In a highly competitive market, that will sit with the positives rather than being one of the minuses.

Maybe Aris lives in a place where product warranty coverage is not respected. I don't know. But anyone in the USA is protected to some extent by consumer protection laws and organizations like the Better Business Bureau.

Agreed.

I have no idea, I have never used Groovesland. This thread is the first I've heard of them. I don't claim to know everything about every possible PC cooling component from every retailers on the planet. It's not like I've spent $250K on PC cooling products. I'm not a reviewer and I don't get review samples either.

One thing for sure, I'm probably not going to spend days researching something that might be $50 out of pocket. I'll spend a little time and if I don't like it, I'll return it within the typical 14-day (or sometimes 30-day) customer satisfaction period.

I typically research a product when I'm considering it. But when I'm not, I generally ignore reviews and discussion. I don't plan on buying a stand mixer for my kitchen, so I'm not pouring over reviews or watching YouTube testimonials about Brand K's mixer or Brand C's mixer, etc. I'm not researching cordless screwdrivers, sneakers, or mattresses either.

That was for kapone, not you.

Damn, all of those are products that I was about to ask you about.

Typically

Agree to disagree.

 

[cvaldes]

The problem is you are reading the first half of the sentence as if it's standalone.
fast flow rates are needed to avoid spikes in power - obviously incorrect
to avoid spikes in power causing spikes in temperatures - correct

Okay, I'll just chalk it up as a difference between Welsh and American English. I've never been to Wales so I don't know what other differences there are.

 

[dgianstefani]

Okay, I'll just chalk it up as a difference between Welsh and American English. I've never been to Wales so I don't know what other differences there are.

I'm not Welsh, just here for the medical school. And the Welsh language is beautiful but useless, only a couple million people worldwide speak it.

Jokingly though, I'd imagine British English is probably slightly more accurate to the original language (a bastardized union of latin, Germanic languages, French and other languages) than Americanized english, where for example many words were reduced in character count to make them cheaper to print.

 

[freeagent]

If you have a significantly different case, you might get different results,

I have a Torrent with glass sides. I mean the performance overall was pretty good, but my system temps went up a fair bit with the GPU running. Back to its stock fans makes my stuff happy

And since I am using a little 58X3D, I do not need anything crazy for cooling..

I will say this though, I was getting cooler temps with my 5800X3D and Thermalright AIO than some guys were getting with their high end water..

 

[cvaldes]

Have you seen the videos from Jay and Steve about EK and their perfidy?

I only watch a few minutes. Steve is a good tech geek but I don't care much for his delivery style.

Tom's Hardware expanded on Steve's excellent reporting though with their own written article yesterday.

Generally speaking I avoid VTubers (even GamersNexus). Even in 2024 I find that a lot of written articles are better researched than vlogs.

But EK and inexpensive can't be uttered in the same sentence, can they?

 

[dgianstefani]

I only watch a few minutes. Steve is a good tech geek but I don't care much for his delivery style.

Tom's Hardware expanded on Steve's excellent reporting though with their own written article yesterday.

Generally speaking I avoid VTubers (even GamersNexus). Even in 2024 I find that a lot of written articles are better researched than vlogs.

But EK and inexpensive can't be uttered in the same sentence, can they?

They used to be relatively well priced considering the quality.

About the only thing from them still well priced is their fittings, which are excellent, and their quality doesn't seem to be anything special anymore. Optimus, Alphacool, TechN, Watercool Heatkiller etc, all blocks I'd buy over EK.