What's an inexpensive AIO product line with a strong pump and low price?

[cvaldes]

I will say this though, I was getting cooler temps with my 5800X3D and Thermalright AIO than some guys were getting with their high end water..

Despite what some people claim online, the 5800X3D isn't that difficult to cool, even with off the shelf non-custom loop products. I own one and it does just fine under an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360mm AIO. My guess is the 240mm model would adequately handle this CPU.

A lot of custom cooling loop performance is based on loop design as well as the acumen of the builder.

They used to be relatively well priced considering the quality.

Yes, EK was well priced back when entry level discrete GPUs could be found for $99 and dinosaurs roamed the Earth. I agree.

About the only thing from them still well priced is their fittings, which are excellent, and their quality doesn't seem to be anything special anymore. Optimus, Alphacool, TechN, Watercool Heatkiller etc, all blocks I'd buy over EK.

I don't know if I own anything EK other than a reservoir (which was fairly inexpensive when I bought it). Most of my fittings are Barrow, XSPC, one or two other companies.

But again we drift away from the original topic of inexpensive AIOs...

 

[TPCEA]

I'm not Welsh, just here for the medical school. And the Welsh language is beautiful but useless, only a couple million people worldwide speak it.

Jokingly though, I'd imagine British English is probably slightly more accurate to the original language (a bastardized union of latin, Germanic languages, French and other languages) than Americanized english, where for example many words were reduced in character count to make them cheaper to print.

I'd say that is not really relevant. Linguistic drift is the number one reason a language is different, and that is at least partially driven by the vernacular and slang, especially now that dictionary companies are cashing in on the slang cow. The primary languages in English are French, German, Latin (each somewhere around 29%) and Greek (10%), with the remaining 1% being over 150 languages that I was able to count. What the reasons were for changes in AmEng don't really matter - neighbor or neighbour, esthetic or aesthetic, many loan words where they've been integrated into another language often have a different spelling, and sometimes even another meaning. Loan words that aren't integrated in that manner are part of the reason that English is so complicated - a lot of unnecessary contradictions, rules and exceptions exist because of this. It's a very complicated thing, though, and I'm not a linguist...And this isn't germaine to the topic. English is largely a very poor choice for international communication.

I have a Torrent with glass sides. I mean the performance overall was pretty good, but my system temps went up a fair bit with the GPU running. Back to its stock fans makes my stuff happy

I don't like glass sides. I don't like poor circulation, either. If I can find a large ATX mesh case that's inexpensive, I'll eventually switch to it, otherwise I'll switch to my Kingdom Classico Storage Master since I don't need a 360 AIO on top after my testing is done.

I will say this though, I was getting cooler temps with my 5800X3D and Thermalright AIO than some guys were getting with their high end water..

"He's a magic man!" - Heart

I only watch a few minutes. Steve is a good tech geek but I don't care much for his delivery style.

Which part? The arrogance, righteous indignation (when he's not subtly shilling), or that he's boring?

If it's the boring part, you won't like my videos. I can be funny in person, but I find it hard to do when I don't have an audience to bounce off of.

Even in 2024 I find that a lot of written articles are better researched than vlogs.

That's an excellent point.

But EK and inexpensive can't be uttered in the same sentence, can they?

Sure. I bought the EK Nucleus 360 Dark for about $100. That's inexpensive, right?

 

[dgianstefani]

English is largely a very poor choice for international communication.

It's a very comprehensive language and very widely spoken. What makes it a poor choice? It's complicated? Well literal languages e.g. pictograph based are simple in concept, but limited in potential because of that simplicity. Asian languages for example with a different glyph for each word. Then there's languages like German which just add words together Stinktier - stink animal - skunk, which seems efficient till you get to long complicated specialist words that are absurd. Welsh has some of these too.

Sure. I bought the EK Nucleus 360 Dark for about $100. That's inexpensive, right?

Yep, as is the cheap reservoir Cvaldes mentioned. They haven't always been ridiculously overpriced.

 

[freeagent]

I don't like glass sides. I don't like poor circulation, either.

To be fair, it is one of the best air cooled cases out there

 

[dgianstefani]

To be fair, it is one of the best air cooled cases out there

Your build always looks funny to me all that black, then chrome gold RAM.

 

[TPCEA]

It's a very comprehensive language and very widely spoken. What makes it a poor choice? It's complicated? Well literal languages e.g. pictograph based are simple in concept, but limited in potential because of that simplicity. Asian languages for example with a different glyph for each word. Then there's languages like German which just add words together Stinktier - stink animal - skunk, which seems efficient till you get to long complicated specialist words that are absurd. Welsh has some of these too.

Again, this isn't germaine. You're welcome to message me to continue to discussion.

To be fair, it is one of the best air cooled cases out there

Which? The 5000x? Kris's 4500D?

 

[freeagent]

Your build always looks funny to me all that black, then chrome gold RAM.

Yeah I know.. when they arent paired up those Royals are fecking awesome. My build has changed soo much since I started it in 2020

I hadnt though about moving the Black and Whites to the other slots.. might be a good idea..

Which? The 5000x? Kris's 4500D?

I have a Torrent Compact

 

[TPCEA]

Your build always looks funny to me all that black, then chrome gold RAM.

What about that amazingly orange fan?

Yeah I know.. when they arent paired up those Royals are fecking awesome. My build has changed soo much since I started it in 2020

I hadnt though about moving the Black and Whites to the other slots.. might be a good idea..


I have a Torrent Compact

Ah, Torrent is pretty impressive, and so is North. I'm not interested in the wood, though.

 

[freeagent]

What about that amazingly orange fan?

That is a Thermalright TY-143, I use d to use it on Le Grand Macho RT and True Spirit 140 Power.. but it just happens to snap into place in the back of my Torrent, no screws needed

 

[TPCEA]

That is a Thermalright TY-143, I use d to use it on Le Grand Macho RT and True Spirit 140 Power.. but it just happens to snap into place in the back of my Torrent, no screws needed

Ah, I have the TY-140 and TY-141. They're much more subtle and would blend in at the front line of a battle.

 

[Chicken Patty]

Arctic Liquid Freezer II and III Series.

This. Have one and don't regret one bit. I came from a heck of a custom loop BTW.

 

[dgianstefani]

This. Have one and don't regret one bit. I came from a heck of a custom loop BTW.

Was your custom loop cooling more than a ~75 W CPU by any chance

 

[Chicken Patty]

Was your custom loop cooling more than a ~75 W CPU by any chance

I realize a custom loop wasn't needed for my CPU/GPU, but I'm just trying to point out that AIO's have matured enough that unless you really need a custom loop, you can stick with one. Heck, tons of air coolers can even cool my CPU. But some are stuck in the past when AIO's were questionable. Just wanted to get a point across.

 

[cvaldes]

I realize a custom loop wasn't needed for my CPU/GPU, but I'm just trying to point out that AIO's have matured enough that unless you really need a custom loop, you can stick with one. Heck, tons of air coolers can even cool my CPU. But some are stuck in the past when AIO's were questionable. Just wanted to get a point across.

I agree with this.

It is important to frame the OP's inquiry firmly rooted in 2024.

Yes, the reliability of early AIOs was questionable. That has changed quite a bit. No, they aren't bulletproof today but nothing is. But I don't see how any consumer CPU can't be cooled by a decent, reasonable priced 280mm or 360mm AIO (like the Arctic LFII); all but the most powerful can be probably get by with a good 240mm AIO.

Like Chicken Patty I have decommissioned my last custom cooling loop. I'm using the LFII 360mm AIO on a Ryzen 5800X3D, the LFII 280mm AIO on a Ryzen 5900X, and an old Cooler Master MasterLiquid on a 5800X. All three builds run cool and quietly.

Similarly stock air coolers on GPUs are better today than they were 5-6 years ago. The stock cooler on my RTX 4080 Super FE is way quieter than the 2-slot cooler on my RTX 2070 Super FE. My most power hungry GPU is an RTX 3080 Ti OC but the TUF Gaming air cooler does a fine job handling the heat.

 

[dgianstefani]

I realize a custom loop wasn't needed for my CPU/GPU, but I'm just trying to point out that AIO's have matured enough that unless you really need a custom loop, you can stick with one. Heck, tons of air coolers can even cool my CPU. But some are stuck in the past when AIO's were questionable. Just wanted to get a point across.

Sure, I understand what you're saying, I just don't think that it's being stuck in the past to point out the longevity issues with AIOs when compared to a properly built loop or air cooling. It's not really that cheap or simple to use an AIO if the performance degrades after a few years of heavy use, or there are zero maintenance options. The coolant will permeate, the pump will wear out eventually, faster with heavier heatload, the additives to prevent corrosion from mixed metals/biological growth will lose effect eventually. This isn't opinion.

OK, maybe they've sorted out the leaky/exploding issues, or slime building up in the fins from mixed metals and insufficient additives in the coolant, but that's bare minimum stuff in my opinion. AIOs should have launched as they are now and could have a prospect as a shortish term cheap but high performant option if you don't mind treating them as disposable pieces of tech after a few years of actual use.

 

[TPCEA]

I realize a custom loop wasn't needed for my CPU/GPU, but I'm just trying to point out that AIO's have matured enough that unless you really need a custom loop, you can stick with one. Heck, tons of air coolers can even cool my CPU. But some are stuck in the past when AIO's were questionable. Just wanted to get a point across.

I do not really understand what that has to do with the test I intend to perform. As cvaldes pointed out, AIOs are much better than they used to be.

It's not really that cheap or simple to use an AIO if the performance degrades after a few years of heavy use, or there are zero maintenance options. AIOs should have launched as they are now and could have a prospect as a shortish term cheap but high performant option if you don't mind treating them as disposable pieces of tech after a few years of actual use.

That's a very important point - if you can't maintain it, you're wasting your money unless you're wealthy, in which case you're contributing e-waste to the world.

The coolant will permeate, the pump will wear out eventually, faster with heavier heatload, the additives to prevent corrosion from mixed metals/biological growth will lose effect eventually. This isn't opinion.

Definitely.

...OK, maybe they've sorted out the leaky/exploding issues

I haven't heard about any explosions of late. That must've been fun fermentation. An AIO makes a terrible still. As far as leaks are concerned, all I hear are the stories of yesteryear's leaks.

or slime building up in the fins

Still happening. Lian Li amongst others. Biofilm, I believe.

from mixed metals and insufficient additives in the coolant,

I assume you mean corrosion. I've seen some users asking for help with their corroded AIOs and, if Igor's Lab is accurate, several companies are using mixed metals to hasten the demise of their AIOs. The worst one I saw last year the corrosion was so bad that it caused the AIO to leak. hooray.

I'll review 'em, and I'll take points away from all the AIOs that don't have maintenance features (sorry Thermalright). As for trying to figure out if they're got mixed metals in them, well, that's a bit out of my experience. How DO you find the hidden mixed metals in a non-destructive way? Impossible.

 

[dgianstefani]

I do not really understand what that has to do with the test I intend to perform. As cvaldes pointed out, AIOs are much better than they used to be.

That's a very important point - if you can't maintain it, you're wasting your money unless you're wealthy, in which case you're contributing e-waste to the world.

Definitely.

I haven't heard about any explosions of late. That must've been fun fermentation. An AIO makes a terrible still. As far as leaks are concerned, all I hear are the stories of yesteryear's leaks.

Still happening. Lian Li amongst others. Biofilm, I believe.

I assume you mean corrosion. I've seen some users asking for help with their corroded AIOs and, if Igor's Lab is accurate, several companies are using mixed metals to hasten the demise of their AIOs. The worst one I saw last year the corrosion was so bad that it caused the AIO to leak. hooray.

I'll review 'em, and I'll take points away from all the AIOs that don't have maintenance features (sorry Thermalright). As for trying to figure out if they're got mixed metals in them, well, that's a bit out of my experience. How DO you find the hidden mixed metals in a non-destructive way? Impossible.

Well most have aluminium radiators, don't shell out for brass/copper tubing, and have copper cold plates. So there's your mixed metals.

 

[Chicken Patty]

Sure, I understand what you're saying, I just don't think that it's being stuck in the past to point out the longevity issues with AIOs when compared to a properly built loop or air cooling. It's not really that cheap or simple to use an AIO if the performance degrades after a few years of heavy use, or there are zero maintenance options. The coolant will permeate, the pump will wear out eventually, faster with heavier heatload, the additives to prevent corrosion from mixed metals/biological growth will lose effect eventually. This isn't opinion.

OK, maybe they've sorted out the leaky/exploding issues, or slime building up in the fins from mixed metals and insufficient additives in the coolant, but that's bare minimum stuff in my opinion. AIOs should have launched as they are now and could have a prospect as a shortish term cheap but high performant option if you don't mind treating them as disposable pieces of tech after a few years of actual use.

In that sense I totally agree. I've mentioned that I came from a custom loop and sometimes I get the "well your CPU didn't need it, my super duper 12GHz 14900K could never get cooled with an AIO" answers. So I thought you were trying to point out that my CPU didn't really need it so I wouldn't see "less" performance with my change. Sorry, defaulted on that one haha.

I do not really understand what that has to do with the test I intend to perform. As cvaldes pointed out, AIOs are much better than they used to be.

That's a very important point - if you can't maintain it, you're wasting your money unless you're wealthy, in which case you're contributing e-waste to the world.

Definitely.

I haven't heard about any explosions of late. That must've been fun fermentation. An AIO makes a terrible still. As far as leaks are concerned, all I hear are the stories of yesteryear's leaks.

Still happening. Lian Li amongst others. Biofilm, I believe.

I assume you mean corrosion. I've seen some users asking for help with their corroded AIOs and, if Igor's Lab is accurate, several companies are using mixed metals to hasten the demise of their AIOs. The worst one I saw last year the corrosion was so bad that it caused the AIO to leak. hooray.

I'll review 'em, and I'll take points away from all the AIOs that don't have maintenance features (sorry Thermalright). As for trying to figure out if they're got mixed metals in them, well, that's a bit out of my experience. How DO you find the hidden mixed metals in a non-destructive way? Impossible.

"I do not really understand what that has to do with the test I intend to perform. As cvaldes pointed out, AIOs are much better than they used to be."

correct, I'm agreeing with this statement. I think you read mine wrong I was saying they have gotten much much better and that some people still don't trust them.

 

[TPCEA]

correct, I'm agreeing with this statement. I think you read mine wrong I was saying they have gotten much much better and that some people still don't trust them.

And that must be my indicator that it's past my bedtime, which it is. *YawN*

 

[cvaldes]

I haven't heard about any explosions of late. That must've been fun fermentation. An AIO makes a terrible still. As far as leaks are concerned, all I hear are the stories of yesteryear's leaks.

I had a leak from the AIO in an NZXT H1 (the cursed original version that was a potential fire hazard unless fixed) so about 4 years old. I contacted NZXT customer support and expressed my disappointment but did not outright ask for a replacement. Without hesitation the NZXT customer service rep offered to replace the entire H1 with a new H1 V2 at no charge (not even shipping).

So I took them up on it and now I have an H1 V2. It works okay but I decided to move the guts into another case.

I'll review 'em, and I'll take points away from all the AIOs that don't have maintenance features (sorry Thermalright). As for trying to figure out if they're got mixed metals in them, well, that's a bit out of my experience. How DO you find the hidden mixed metals in a non-destructive way? Impossible.

You don't. You treat an AIO like a component with a limited lifespan. If an AIO works for five years it doesn't owe me anything more. I wish at some point these things could last 10-12 years but hey I'm realistic enough to know their lifespans are finite.

 

[pattesatan]

I had one of these too. Temps were... OK. It's nice they're expandable and I think pure copper. But still pretty weak pump and mounted on the CPU socket. Wouldn't imagine CPU plus GPU temps would be great.


Yeah well OP is asking for something that doesn't exist.

He wants all the perks of a custom loop performance wise, without any of the cost. Good luck

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/ekwb-predator-280-qdc/

Something like this is the closest I can think of, but it's not cheap. You can't have both cheap and good pump etc.

Radiator mounted DDC from what I can tell.
View attachment 344772

Yes, temps were okay, had a very bad 1600x that got hot easily, and the R9 390 wasnt exactly cool either, but I think I was at 48 degrees celcius watertemperature. And, for a kind of "backyard setup", it worked for 4 years

 

[TPCEA]

I had a leak from the AIO in an NZXT H1 (the cursed original version that was a potential fire hazard unless fixed) so about 4 years old. I contacted NZXT customer support and expressed my disappointment but did not outright ask for a replacement. Without hesitation the NZXT customer service rep offered to replace the entire H1 with a new H1 V2 at no charge (not even shipping).

So I took them up on it and now I have an H1 V2. It works okay but I decided to move the guts into another case.


You don't. You treat an AIO like a component with a limited lifespan. If an AIO works for five years it doesn't owe me anything more. I wish at some point these things could last 10-12 years but hey I'm realistic enough to know their lifespans are finite.

I had a similar experience with NZXT promptly replacing a defective fan (bad ARGB), although I did have to send a video and image to prove it. It didn't leak, though, which would've freaked me out!

Well, as for that, I agree that there's no non-destructive way to find out if stuff is mixed but if you see that there's a copper cold plate and the rad is aluminum, there's a good chance that it's copper inside, too, but the tubes are aluminum in the rad, maybe in the block. My AIOs will last longer than 5 years because they're sitting on a shelf. Then again, they could be corroding and losing liquid, too. Just can't win, right? I've seen people state that they've got AIOs that still work after 10 years, so there you go.

 

[cvaldes]

I had a similar experience with NZXT promptly replacing a defective fan (bad ARGB), although I did have to send a video and image to prove it. It didn't leak, though, which would've freaked me out!

Well, as for that, I agree that there's no non-destructive way to find out if stuff is mixed but if you see that there's a copper cold plate and the rad is aluminum, there's a good chance that it's copper inside, too, but the tubes are aluminum in the rad, maybe in the block. My AIOs will last longer than 5 years because they're sitting on a shelf. Then again, they could be corroding and losing liquid, too. Just can't win, right? I've seen people state that they've got AIOs that still work after 10 years, so there you go.

Like many things, AIO lifespan is probably a bell curve. One person says their radiator failed after a year, another claims theirs is still going strong beyond the 10 year mark. That's not a statistically significant sample size.

Maybe the manufacturer knows the median is around 7 years so they set the warranty period at 5 years knowing that the vast majority of failures will happen later.

One part that doesn't show up in spec sheets or product reviews is the quality of customer service. NZXT provided excellent customer service and it's something I will remember the next time I am hunting for something in a product category that they cover (cases, cooling components, etc.).

But they do charge a premium for their AIO products which is why I hadn't mentioned them in the context of your inquiry up to now. They simply aren't "inexpensive."

 

[TPCEA]

Like many things, AIO lifespan is probably a bell curve. One person says their radiator failed after a year, another claims theirs is still going strong beyond the 10 year mark. That's not a statistically significant sample size.

Maybe the manufacturer knows the median is around 7 years so they set the warranty period at 5 years knowing that the vast majority of failures will happen later.

One part that doesn't show up in spec sheets or product reviews is the quality of customer service. NZXT provided excellent customer service and it's something I will remember the next time I am hunting for something in a product category that they cover (cases, cooling components, etc.).

But they do charge a premium for their AIO products which is why I hadn't mentioned them in the context of your inquiry up to now. They simply aren't "inexpensive."

I like their service, but their move towards proprietary connectors ticks a bad checkbox for me. I don't like being cornered into a particular PC brand, especially as a reviewer.

 

[cvaldes]

I like their service, but their move towards proprietary connectors ticks a bad checkbox for me. I don't like being cornered into a particular PC brand, especially as a reviewer.

I don't know what proprietary connector you are talking about. I have two NZXT cases and they appear to follow industry standards (both are mini-ITX size). The main thing I dislike about the H1 V2 is their use a proprietary fan controller that requires NZXT CAM software. That's a bummer mostly because NZXT CAM is junkware (something that they could conceivably fix in the future but I'm not holding my breath).

Otherwise all of the little cables and connectors fit into their respective places on a standard mini-ITX motherboard.