Guys !! Please !! we're talking about laptops ! And do you think even if the specs were the same as desktops, they we'll operate as each other????!!!!!!! :shadedshu OF course NOT! there are many specs that can never match desktops: bandwidths, data rates,... :banghead:

It would be nice if 880G comes with 5200 and allow all games Max settings @ 1024x768 :)

actually the Dell Inspiron XPS Gen 1 Matched the specs of a Desktop other than the Max Power it could use,

Specs are as follows for my Laptop of the above, Remember this is 2002-2004 tech.

Dell XPS Gen 1 Laptop- 15.4" WUXGA (Widescreen Ultra eXtended Graphics Array) Native Res 1920x1200

Intel Pentium 4 EE 3.4 GHz SKT 478 (Northwood Extreme/Gallatin Core)
Intel 865PE Motherboard (Dell OEM)
2 GB PC 3200 DDR Dual Channel (OEM)
(M18) Radeon 9800 256 (R420 based)
60GB Hitachi Travelstar 60GB 7200RPM
150 Watt Wallwart.

Why are people fighting, Ive just read the first 20 post and I call BS, on all of it.

*First of all, All these cards are extemely wattage dependent, and neeed alot of cooling after that to be put in a mobility form.

*Second why are you guys getting mad about the HD 5870 >>>>>MOBILITY<<<<< It has a diffrent name so it can be any spec possible, because mobility is a big enough word that for all we care the card can have 400 stream processors.

*Third, and this is were people catched on, was that this is basicly a HD 5770 only using 50 watts in a laptop mobility GPU form, which frankly impresses me.

*Forth, all these dx11 GPU'z are going to be cheaper then Nvidia Mobiles(Probably), and the fastest Nvidia mobile GPU is basicly comparable to a GTS 250. Yet this HD 5870 Mobility, will be twice as fast as that GPU overclocked just a bit. {FYI Thats Amazing}.

*The only negative I have about this Mobility GPU's is the power they use in a laptop. Most of these Gamers/Laptop guru's PROBABLY game with the laptop connected to power most of the time. But a laptop is really ment to be portable, and not use so much power.

I think this is a good mobility gpu line, probably going to be cheap, and not use that much power. But you have to think that sense the rest of a laptop will essentually being BOTTLENECKING these gaming laptop mobility gpu'z then, whats the piont of buying such power other then E-peen and 2,000 bucks in your pocket

Well, Ati already did this some time ago with the Radeon 9700 Mobility (which in fact was a higher clocked 9600-Chip)

It's a shame but I bet it is going to perform anyways... Shame there is no more competition from Nvidia atm... Them continueing rebadging the slightly upgraded G80 Architecture (yeah, for me 9000-series and 3000-series for AMD are nothing but a package-update; the few updates they enjoyed don't really count) calling it GT300M now :rolleyes:

I'll be waiting with my new laptop for another year or so, maybe by the end of 2010 there'll be a mobility 5890 out, which basically is a full-fledged HD5870...

I'm pretty sure this was a marketing decision, they can sell a mid-range chip as high-end and high price like this; there is no viable competition either...
As has already been pointed out: TDP between HD4800 and HD5800 series was equal, no reason as to why it shouldn't be possible to put a full-fledged 5870 into a laptop except for winning-margins of course.

Looking forward to the answer you get W1zzard. :toast:

eidairaman1Imagine trying to stuff a full blown 5870 into a Thin Laptop with the cooling apparatus/power/size constraints, and expect to be able to use it on the road, you won't be able to due to the amt of power it uses and the heat it produces. The battery life would be excessively short. The only way you would be able to use its potential is to have it plugged into a wall or have a nuclear power-pack strapped to your back.

Only way I can see a 5800 or even 5900 series part being stuffed into a Laptop with nothing other than clock speeds adjusted is the use of the next Process (32nm) or the parts being used in a Dell Inspiron XPS Gen 1 Chassis which had 3 fans and several heatpipe sinks.

I'm going to look at processors for an example, the Pentium 4M, it used more power than the P3 at the time, well Intel needed a mobility solution bad, so they looked at their buddies in the sandbox, which turned out the Core series- which provided better performance at lower power than the Pentium 4M ever did. Which then later on the Core became Core 2 due to the Core's success.

-end command-

That is still a lame argument. Gaming laptops aren't "thin and petit". There are laptops out there which handle two HD 4870 GPUs. Surely they have the "apparatus" that can power and cool a single AMD Cypress, or even two for that matter.

3volvedcombat*Second why are you guys getting mad about the HD 5870 >>>>>MOBILITY<<<<< It has a diffrent name so it can be any spec possible, because mobility is a big enough word that for all we care the card can have 400 stream processors.

Are you frustrated from all the naming games Nvidia have played with you? If you are, then this is essentially the same. If you are not, then you are an nvidiot. (Pardon for all the swear words here, I dont feel particularly well).

3volvedcombatBut you have to think that sense the rest of a laptop will essentually being BOTTLENECKING these gaming laptop mobility gpu'z then, whats the piont of buying such power other then E-peen and 2,000 bucks in your pocket

I think the Mobile i7's will not bottleneck these chips. I fly back home every year or so from here, and you can safely assume that I cant bring a full sized tower with me, hence the need for mobile gaming rig solutions for people like me.

the problem is that MXM can't handle a HD5870 with all 1600sp's and 32 rops, the TDP would be way too high even for a mobile variant and mxm cards have to be a max of 82mmx100mm

KainXSthe problem is that MXM can't handle a HD5870 with all 1600sp's and 32 rops, the TDP would be way too high even for a mobile variant and mxm cards have to be a max of 82mmx100mm

Wrong. Cypress has nearly the same TDP as RV770, and RV770s could work on MXMs. They also have nearly the same pad size, the same memory IO pins, same PCI-Express lanes, and so on. It's just that AMD isn't able to dole out good enough quantities of Cypress even today. When they get to do so, don't be surprised if they release a "Mobility HD 5970" which is a single AMD Cypress MXM board.

W1zzardthats exactly what i'm gonna ask amd later :)

Thank you because this really doesn't make any sense. I mean if I were Nvidia I would attack the mobile market now with my balls out. WTF is ATI/AMD thinking!

btarunrWrong. Cypress has nearly the same TDP as RV770, and RV770s could work on MXMs. They also have nearly the same pad size, the same memory IO pins, same PCI-Express lanes, and so on. It's just that AMD isn't able to dole out good enough quantities of Cypress even today. When they get to do so, don't be surprised if they release a "Mobility HD 5970" which is a single AMD Cypress MXM board.

Thats a good point. Could it be a quantity issue?

eidairaman1Imagine trying to stuff a full blown 5870 into a Thin Laptop with the cooling apparatus/power/size constraints, and expect to be able to use it on the road, you won't be able to due to the amt of power it uses and the heat it produces. The battery life would be excessively short. The only way you would be able to use its potential is to have it plugged into a wall or have a nuclear power-pack strapped to your back.

Only way I can see a 5800 or even 5900 series part being stuffed into a Laptop with nothing other than clock speeds adjusted is the use of the next Process (32nm) or the parts being used in a Dell Inspiron XPS Gen 1 Chassis which had 3 fans and several heatpipe sinks.

I'm going to look at processors for an example, the Pentium 4M, it used more power than the P3 at the time, well Intel needed a mobility solution bad, so they looked at their buddies in the sandbox, which turned out the Core series- which provided better performance at lower power than the Pentium 4M ever did. Which then later on the Core became Core 2 due to the Core's success.

-end command-

You are so so wrong, if they can squeeze 2 mobile 4870s in to a laptop, they can fit a single Cyrpress GPU into one.

As people have already told you, Cypress uses the same power as a 4870, so your argument doesn't hold any validity.

I don't know why they've done this, they should have just called it a mobile 5770.

TheMailMan78Thank you because this really doesn't make any sense. I mean if I were Nvidia I would attack the mobile market now with my balls out. WTF is ATI/AMD thinking!

With their balls out? Why? They've been doing this very same thing for years. :laugh: What would be their argument?

That being said, it's sad to see AMD resort to the same sad business practices that Nvidia practiced for years. Guess that means they're back to being competitive again, though. :laugh:

When companies get complacent, this is the crap they start to do, and the consumer suffers. There is _no_ reason why AMD couldn't have just called this thing a Mobile 5770.

+1 I agree, asking for a full-blown 5870 may be a bit too much, considering that the Mobile HD4870 was using GDDR3 and was heaviliy underclocked, but still they should have named it a 5770...Still @AT they have some slides showing this card as 20-30% faster than the last generation...

mxm is out of question as the defined a new standard called mxm 3.0 with some square cards that offer more speed and thermal capabilitys and yes maybe some will release as 2.1 eletric interface in mxm2 or mxm3 format but that's something time will tell.
as far as i am concerned thers only one mxm 2.1 HD4650 all other mxm HD4xxx gpus are not compilant with the old mxm 1 to 3 they are "shorter" and wider....

FourstaffAre you frustrated from all the naming games Nvidia have played with you? If you are, then this is essentially the same. If you are not, then you are an nvidiot. (Pardon for all the swear words here, I dont feel particularly well).

Fourstaff, i was going for ATI on there product in the post and what the specs of it was and there naming scheme, I was saying that they had a PROPER naming scheme, and that is was proper for there line(between the lines). I really dont care about nvidia, im not a nvidiot, read a post a little more slowly if your sick today ok.

3volvedcombatFourstaff, i was going for ATI on there product in the post and what the specs of it was and there naming scheme, I was saying that they had a PROPER naming scheme, and that is was proper for there line(between the lines). I really dont care about nvidia, im not a nvidiot, read a post a little more slowly if your sick today ok.

Point taken. But your use of large letters annoyed me just now. :toast:

How can it be a rebrand if it's DX11? Wouldn't putting a full blown mobile version of a 5870 in a laptop just be too big and hot?

erockerHow can it be a rebrand if it's DX11? Wouldn't putting a full blown mobile version of a 5870 in a laptop just be too big and hot?

Nobody is calling it a rebrand. The accusation is of using weaker physical GPUs to designate Mobility series models. No, it won't be any bigger or hotter than the last time when they put a full blown mobile version of a 4870 in a laptop.

You have to consider tho that if they had named it X7XX and is in fact ~30% faster than the X8XX it could have raised some confusion as well

btarunrNobody is calling it a rebrand. The accusation is of using weaker physical GPUs to designate Mobility series models. No, it won't be any bigger or hotter than the last time when they put a full blown mobile version of a 4870 in a laptop.

+1

They could have just designated a lower number to their "mobility 5800" if they cant solve the heating and power issues rather than lowering its power.

Just backing up Btaruners point, here is a GPU-Z screenshot of my laptops Mobility HD4850.



As you can see barring the clock speeds it is a fully fledged R770 part.

I assume of course that ATI has a reason for not putting a fully fledged cypress GPU into laptops.

My assumptions would be:

1) Yeilds are not good enough for a mobility part (they can make more money selling them as desktop parts)
2) Whilst the thermal TDP is around the same as the R770 I wonder if in the real world they have had trouble both cooling and powering this GPU in mobile form.
3) What is the point in designing a fully fledged Cypress GPU for laptops when your main competition has nothing to compete (this links in with point one above)?

I would imagine its a mixture of all of the above plus more.

One thing does really bug me though, why on earth have we not seen more 'gaming' laptops running the ATI mobility cards. It seems that MSI and a couple of other vendors have gone for them but the majority are still using the GTX2XX mobility series instead (which is technically inferior).

Just as a personal point - The HD4850M is very good indeed. :)

look at the shear size of the board, its obvious there are more power phases required, and that heatsink dude, its bigger than the 4890s. I suspect that the Reply to Fermi Will be something that is refined, thus will have full fledged Mobility parts compared to what we are getting right now.

Musselsnvidia started rebranding a long time ago. Geforce 4MX line? yeah, geforce 2 rebadge.

The Geforce 4 MX was'nt a Geforce 2 MX/GTS but rather a stripped down Geforce 3 series. Hence the lack for SM2.0 if i'm correct.

But as of this newsitem, you cant expect to have desktop specs into a laptop, developing a chip that would do the same as the HD5870 desktop and not put out alot of heat (TDP).. I'd rather not waste my notebooks battery in like an half an hour because of the extreme power-usage.

If AMD feels like this is the fastest chip for the mobile market, with nobody to offer something (nvidia) powerfuller, its good. Ya'll can play games. :)

lismThe Geforce 4 MX was'nt a Geforce 2 MX/GTS but rather a stripped down Geforce 3 series. Hence the lack for SM2.0 if i'm correct.

But as of this newsitem, you cant expect to have desktop specs into a laptop, developing a chip that would do the same as the HD5870 desktop and not put out alot of heat (TDP).. I'd rather not waste my notebooks battery in like an half an hour because of the extreme power-usage.

If AMD feels like this is the fastest chip for the mobile market, with nobody to offer something (nvidia) powerfuller, its good. Ya'll can play games. :)

GF 4 Ti had shader 1.4
Geforce 3 had 1.3
GF 4 MX had 0.0
Geforce 2 had 0.0

Trust me, it was their first rebrand.

After looking at so many silly arguments defending this, a realistic thought occurs: size. maybe the 5870 was just too big?

So I went to check the website for specs and here are the full specs and respective desktop counterpart:

Mobility HD5870: Juniper XT (800sp, desktop HD57xx), GDDR5 @ 128bit, 50W
Mobility HD5850: Juniper XT, GDDR5/GDDR3/DDR3 @ 128bit, 30-39W
Mobility HD5830: Juniper XT, DDR3/GDDR3 @ 128bit, 25W

Mobility HD5770: Redwood (400sp, desktop HD56xx), GDDR5 @ 128bit, 30W
Mobility HD5750: Redwood, GDDR5 @ 128bit, 25W
Mobility HD5730: Redwood, GDDR3/DDR3 @ 128bit, 26W
Mobility HD5650: Redwood, GDDR3/DDR3 @ 128bit, 15-19W (lower clocked than HD5730)


Mobility HD5470: Cedar (80sp, desktop HD53xx), GDDR5/DDR3 @ 64bit, 13-15W
Mobility HD5450: Cedar, DDR3 @ 64bit, 11W
Mobility HD5430: Cedar, DDR3 @ 64bit, 7W (lower clocked)


Mobility HD5165: RV730 (320sp, desktop HD46xx), DDR3/GDDR3 @ 128bit
Mobility HD5145: RV710 (80sp, desktop HD43xx), DDR3/GDDR3 @ 64bit




- First off, the Mobility HD5850 is a total mess. It can come with either GDDR5 or DDR3, its clocks range from 500 to 625MHz. This means it can be exactly as fast as a Mobility HD5830 or just a tad slower than the HD5870. People will have to be very carefull with these.


- The HD5165 and HD5145 are renames from the previous generation, nVidia style (with the big difference that they're not trying to fool customers by calling them HD5650 and HD5350, respectively).
The naming of the HD5165 is also a mess. This GPU will be a lot faster than the HD54xx although it's named as being a lot slower.

- Inclusion of GDDR5 in mobile GPUs still shows a considerable bump in power consumption. Besides, the memory's power consumption depends a lot on the bus width (the wider the bus, the more amount os memory chips is needed).




IMO, ATI went the nVidia way (calling different names between Mobility and Desktop) because it had no choice.
nVidia keeps churning out different names for its mobile GPUs while AMD kept the same, honest naming scheme. Many retailers tried to take advantage of people's ignorance of this, so the renamed GPUs still got design wins.

I don't like this either, I used to congratulate ATI for being consistent with their name scheme, but I guess this ended up as being essential to grab more design wins.




As for not launching Cypress for laptops, I think it's the right way to go.
Let's face it, the RV770's adoption for laptops was horrible, and trying to sell Cypress with 8 chips of GDDR5 would go the same way.

The GPU consumed a bit more than the G92b, so it had to be downclocked to death, and 256bit (8 chips) of GDDR5 were never used in any laptop at all (all the Mobility HD4870 bundled GDDR3).
For this reason, the once-again-renamed-G92b GTX 280M and 260M chips got almost all design wins for gaming laptops.

That Asus W90 was a total joke. They paired a slow CPU (2GHz) with two "HD4870" with 512MB GDDR3. Why they decided to save on video memory on a top-end laptop is still a mistery to me, but of course that SLI'ed GTX280M would win in more recent tests because they are all bundled with 1GB each.

cupheso is the mobile 5870 only slightly better than the 4870M? Because it's a 5770 and 5770 is about the 4870 in performance.

There was never a Mobile HD4870 with GDDR5, so this Mobility HD5870 will be a lot faster (something like the difference between desktop HD4850 and HD5770).

lismThe Geforce 4 MX wasn't a Geforce 2 MX/GTS but rather a stripped down Geforce 3 series. Hence the lack for SM2.0 if i'm correct.

The Geforce 4 MX had no programmable shaders, so it was technologically inferior to the GF3 and it was more like a redesigned GF2. SM2.0 was a DX9 feature than only appeared in the Geforce (5) FX generation. Geforce 3 was a DX8 GPU and Geforce 4 MX was a DX7 GPU.