I'm guessing it'll either be a 5770 core with a 256 bit buss or a castrated 5850 with ~1200 shaders. What do you guys think?

More than likely the shader count reduced as it is cheaper and then can use the same PCB as the 5850.

SteevoMore than likely the shader count reduced as it is cheaper and then can use the same PCB as the 5850.

What do you mean? How is a 5850 core cheaper than a 5770 that's basically half its size? Or do you mean it'll be cheaper because they won't have to redesign the pcb :confused:

DirectorCEh? These cards are merely the latest victims of product binning. Not that I wouldn't rock one, but it's basically crippled versions of cards that would have otherwise ended up as 5870s.

By yields he means, not as man crippled cards that need to go to 128bit, and that they now have a good enough return to be able to make a lower end 5800 series.

HalfAHertzWhat do you mean? How is a 5850 core cheaper than a 5770 that's basically half its size? Or do you mean it'll be cheaper because they won't have to redesign the pcb :confused:

Cheaper as they can use defective cores, on a existing PCB. Notice how only after a certain length production run do they start making these cards? They have been stockpiling defective cores that didn't meet 5850 standards, and now have enough to make a new card.

i feel it will be a 5850 with lower clocks

Wait, doesn't ATi make those GFX cards?

They probably own ATi, but still it bothers me...

I see. I didn't know yields were still that bad.

I agree with those that say 1280sp. I reckon ~625mhz, which would be exactly 1.6TF. It also would be almost exactly proportional to 5850 as 5850 is to 5870 shader/texture-wise, if all the ROPs are still there.

Such a card would be ~10% faster than 4890, and like someone else mentioned, will likely be clocked to just slightly overcome GTX275/GTX280, as they should line up PERFECTLY.

Considering DX11 and the scarcity/price of GTX275, priced at $200 this will be a big win.

Can you see the new lineup shaping up?

5970...No Contest
5950 v. Fermi...ATi
5890 v. FermiGT...ATi
5870 v. GTX295....ATi
5850 v. GTX285...ATi
5830 v. GTX275...ATi
5770 v. GTX260*...ATi (Price/Perf)
5750 v. GTS250 1GB...ATi
5670:v. GT240 1gb...ATi
5650 v. GT220...ATi
5500 series (Redwood GDDR3) v. whatever...ATi
5400 series v. GT210...ATi

*5830 will make GTX260 irrelevant.

Nice stack! :rockout:

It took 'em 5 years, but ATi, you done good (or nVIDIA done bad.)

oooooh...do like :D I may have to kick out the ol' 4870 for some cheap dx. 11 powah.

KantasticLooks yummy

Looks the same like the rest :laugh:

shoo troll shoo you wont buy this gpu anyway :toast:

I would def go for one of these if the only had reduced shader count. It would be a good investment.

If an overclocked 5830 is like a 5850, and an overclocked 5850 is like a 5870, isn't the 5830 basically the same as the 5870, but $175 less? o.O

Stupid transverse property, not behaving properly IRL.

I wonder if they'd have the shame to cut it back to 1200 shaders and 24 ROPs. That's certainly another possibility. A crappier one, but possible none-the-less. They'd have to compensate with a higher stock speed, something like 675-700mhz.

Whatever the case, count on it beating GTX275/280. Other than filling the gap, that's certainly the point of this product.

DirectorCOMG it's the GTX 275 KILLER

You mean GTX 275 killer-if-only-nvidia-would-supply-GTX2xx-cards.

Soylent JoeIf an overclocked 5830 is like a 5850, and an overclocked 5850 is like a 5870, isn't the 5830 basically the same as the 5870, but $175 less? o.O

Stupid transverse property, not behaving properly IRL.

No, the 5870 is the base product. It's what AMD intended to make. The 5850 is a binned-down version of the 5870 with a certain amount of disabled SPUs. The amount less of SPUs is actually determined during the binning process.

DirectorCNo, the 5870 is the base product. It's what AMD intended to make. The 5850 is a binned-down version of the 5870 with a certain amount of disabled SPUs. The amount less of SPUs is actually determined during the binning process.

Amigo, I think he was be facetious. :toast:

HalfAHertzI see. I didn't know yields were still that bad.

If Fermi is having a issue with production and that is the primary reason they aren't delivering ATI is suffering the same, but they have built in such a way that defective cores/stream processors can be laser cut and eliminated. Build a stack of a few hundred thousand dies and then make a card off them.

If you get 1000 cores per die, and have a net cost of $5 per core, a clean core rate of 50% that you can sell for $100, 25% that you can sell for $80, 10% that you can sell for $50, and 15% that are unacceptable for current use you don't just throw those away. You stock pile them for use in a future card that is even lower powered.


Now lest say out of the last 15% or 150 cores per die 80% are acceptable for use in a card like this, and you can still sell them at $40. 40*120=$4800 almost enough to pay for the die, making all the rest of it profit. And your waste is only 30 cores per die.



It is called engineered for cost, nothing you buy today is made to the original specs. A card gets made, no expense spared, no small stone unturned. Once it is made and performs within a certain spec, then the next set of engineers get it, and they are only looking for ways to cut the production cost. Lower quality solder, slower memory, competitive quotes, use more aluminum instead of copper, cheaper caps, etc.... they do this untill the life expectancy and failure rate reaches a certain point, and then orders are made. After that it is all just absorbtion costs that each MFG puts on the card itself. Some companies like XFX make their own brand by changing the PCB to a different color, adding a 50 cent piece of plastic, charging $20 more and being ready for the absorbtion costs a better support staff. At the end of the day they still make more than the next guy, but they also sell fewer. Sapphire makes ATI card for them, my X1800XT had a ATI sticker under the sapphire one.

Depending on how good Google is, the 5830 is suppose to use the 5850 boards. Would I be right in to assume that if it used a 5770 board that it couldn't have more than a 128 bit bus?

ATI-forum.de
Google translation

erockerAnd it will overclock far past 4890 speeds I'm sure.

Ya, I expect it to be an O/C monster much like the 4830. My Powercolor 4830 would do 750 on the core.

As it did in these reviews.

www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_4830/29.html
www.tomshardware.com/reviews/4830-radeon-crossfire,2098-12.html

I have my 4830 at 700/1200 24/7 fan @60%
47c full load 36c Idle

£160 is my limit for a card, it just gets far to expensive after that. The price drops you see kinda out weigh the early adoption for me.

If this is above a 5770 then yeah i might take a look if its sub £200 doubt it but it would be nice.

I would only do it if it was better than the card i have, it has to be better than a 4890 because a 5770 is in that territory already.

Although i might just wait a year for Fermi and if its expensive or shite by that time the ATi cards will have dropped in price and second hand will be available too.

MilkyWay£160 is my limit for a card, it just gets far to expensive after that. The price drops you see kinda out weigh the early adoption for me.

If this is above a 5770 then yeah i might take a look if its sub £200 doubt it but it would be nice.

I would only do it if it was better than the card i have, it has to be better than a 4890 because a 5770 is in that territory already.

Although i might just wait a year for Fermi and if its expensive or shite by that time the ATi cards will have dropped in price and second hand will be available too.

You sound like that Retarded Voice in the back of my Head saying wait!!!! it'll be $179 1 month after release JUST WAIT IT OUT!!:rolleyes:

this may be what i upgrade to.