newtekie1Who said anything about XP?

If we are talking legacy, that is the legacy king. As far as AMD goes even the latest APU has XP32 support right now.

newtekie1Zen APUs will have a built in GPU, most business machines will use integrated graphics. No GPU driver = No Integrated graphics = No Business Sales.

Integrated drivers will be based off of the same iGPU already out, old legacy driver should work with it. The integrated R7 is an integrated R7 no matter what CPU they glue it to.

cdawallIf we are talking legacy, that is the legacy king. As far as AMD goes even the latest APU has XP32 support right now.

So?

cdawallIntegrated drivers will be based off of the same iGPU already out, old legacy driver should work with it.

You have insider knowledge on what Zen's integrated graphics will be?

newtekie1what happens when that business buys a new computer

If that old they'll probably just get the "New" unit(s) with preinstall Win7 Enterprise 64-Bit. That's what my company final did like two years. And honestly consultant/sales person worth his salt would be making that pitch at this point just to make everyone's life easy. It would've been an issue in 2006 but now.

newtekie1Who said anything about XP?



Zen APUs will have a built in GPU, most business machines will use integrated graphics. No GPU driver = No Integrated graphics = No Business Sales.

why would they install the amd driver? These are office machines, not graphic designer machines. The base windows display driver will do ya.

Also if we're talking Zen we're talking brand spanking new. If it's a laptop why isn't it 64-bit? If its a desktop why isn't it 64-bit?

Not really seeing a scenario where zen + 32-bit will happen at all, much less make any sense. Now if you're talking existing hardware then sure it might sting but there's always a driver already out. The only ones affected are those on existing hardware with a 32-bit OS where existing drivers have some flaw the user is waiting on being fixed.

That can't really be a significant chunk of the market.

yogurt_21why would they install the amd driver? These are office machines, not graphic designer machines. The base windows display driver will do ya.

Also if we're talking Zen we're talking brand spanking new. If it's a laptop why isn't it 64-bit? If its a desktop why isn't it 64-bit?

Not really seeing a scenario where zen + 32-bit will happen at all, much less make any sense. Now if you're talking existing hardware then sure it might sting but there's always a driver already out. The only ones affected are those on existing hardware with a 32-bit OS where existing drivers have some flaw the user is waiting on being fixed.

That can't really be a significant chunk of the market.

Because business use the integrated graphics a lot of the time. The base Windows driver results in a stutter mess, it definitely doesn't do the job.

I've already explained why desktops aren't all 64-bit.

The thing is... business does not need catalyst/crimson whatever thing.

Windows will provide with latest legacy driver as it does now.

Old machines are old, they have their own golden software combo. It does not need anything new anymore. Special cases with rare special devices are not a serious statistic counter. VIA still produces their own CPU's and board and GPU, so you will have an option for industrial tech.

New mainstream machines are new, even office chaps now consume more than 4GB of RAM and it really leaves no option. Browser + office really starts to hit the swapfile too much. Blame chrome and web content...

Microsoft also has noted that this will be the last update having x86 builds.

Eventually... most of office peps buy laptops with an OEM OS. There even wont be a choice. Custom desktop machines are actually rare, even more places use NUC if large screens are needed and laptop is not an option also mobility for meetings is not needed.

So this is really a natural way of doing things...

Ferrum MasterThe thing is... business does not need catalyst/crimson whatever thing.

Windows will provide with latest legacy driver as it does now.

And when a business buys a new computer and needs 32-bit and that new computer doesn't have video drivers?

I guess since I deal with this on a regular basis with customers, I see the need for 32-bit.

btarunrSome old tech must be bludgeoned (eg: PCI slots, Molex power connectors, etc.)

Would be awesome if there is only cable coming from PSU and going into Mobo and every device magically gets power from the mobo!!

yeah don't see a reason for 32 bit OS to float around!!

newtekie1You have insider knowledge on what Zen's integrated graphics will be?

Yes my insider knowledge has announced its GCN based and there is already a driver that will work with it.

cdawallYes my insider knowledge has announced its GCN based and there is already a driver that will work with it.

You know better than that. if that was true, the super old R9 200 drivers from 2 years ago would work with the Fiji Fury cards. But I know if I tried to load the 13.11 Catalyst drivers with a FuryX the driver wouldn't load or recognize the card.

newtekie1You know better than that. if that was true, the super old R9 200 drivers from 2 years ago would work with the Fiji Fury cards. But I know if I tried to load the 13.11 Catalyst drivers with a FuryX the driver wouldn't load or recognize the card.

I am actually going to call BS on that one. 13.5 will run a 390, not well and it did BSOD on occasion, but it actually recognized the card and worked.

yeah NS dump 32 bit already!

R-T-BPCI slots yes, Molex power connectors support higher amperage than SATA, thus are actually the "superior" of the two techs.



It can always backfire and become a tech-zombie.

How much amperage do you need?
It's a computer, not the starter for a big-block Chevy. ;-)
Most components are drawing less power, not more, these days, so I don't really see the need for higher amperage (please do educate me if I am wrong)

newtekie1Because business use the integrated graphics a lot of the time. The base Windows driver results in a stutter mess, it definitely doesn't do the job.

I've already explained why desktops aren't all 64-bit.

I don't understand why do you need latest 32 bit driver when old drivers would work just fine. It is not as if old drivers are going to get deleted.

ZoneDymoermm does that not happen after the slaying? it needs to die before it can go to heaven right?

science and tech kind of in its essence is an anti-religion thing ... so what exactly is heaven? in tech point of view it doesn't even exist.

newtekie1And when a business buys a new computer and needs 32-bit and that new computer doesn't have video drivers?

I guess since I deal with this on a regular basis with customers, I see the need for 32-bit.

Then you work in a very specialized market, which does not even make a fraction of the picture. I have yet to install a system where the normal "pre-installed" gra-ca drivers aren't up to scratch to do office work, be it Windows or Linux. There are also a great deal of ways of dealing with the need for 32-bit software on a 64-bit system that does not require Windows XP on bare metal.

RockarolaHow much amperage do you need?
It's a computer, not the starter for a big-block Chevy. ;-)
Most components are drawing less power, not more, these days, so I don't really see the need for higher amperage (please do educate me if I am wrong)

You can use adaptors for the video cards power connectors if you have, lets say 2 or more video cards and not enough power connectors...

deemonscience and tech kind of in its essence is an anti-religion thing ... so what exactly is heaven? in tech point of view it doesn't even exist.

Tech heaven is the drawer full of your old tech where they can live out their last days and mingle with the other old tech? ^.^

It's the right time to do it - GAMING graphics cards do not need to be supported on 32 bit OS's, since modern games either outright require 64 bit, or will crash/have issues on 32 bit (even the sims 3 runs into the 2GB memory limit of 32 bit windows without an LAA patch, so this is an OLD problem and not a new one)

newtekie1That is fine now, but what happens when that business buys a new computer, with one of those shiny new Zen APUs AMD is hoping to sell in huge quantities and the driver doesn't support 32-bit? Legacy drivers aren't an option because they don't support new hardware.

So AMD, who needs to sell their new APUs in large quantities, and the APUs make most sense in the business market, just cut out a good portion of their business market for their new products... Not a smart move.

I don't think this is a "good portion". Businesses anyway go for Intel systems because Intel buys it's way into the business market. Even if Zen comes with Thor's hammer and hit Skylake, or even Kaby Lake on the head, OEMs and businesses will still go for the Intel option. We already seen that in the past. Now if businesses keep using 32bit Windows when Zen comes out, probably they will not have the money to upgrade their hardware anyway. They will keep using what they where always using. If they want the graphics on an Zen APU to use them with a 32bit Windows version, this will be at least strange from my perspective.

The 32bit windows market that will care about a Zen APU is probably a smaller market than the Linux market.

so intel cut driver support for chipset, amd dropfollow suit for gpu.

i wonder how much face this is saving microsoft for when they stop making 32bit os?

like most, vista saw the end of 32bit for me too, then for the past 3 os release i have wondered why they still bothered with the 32bit flavour :s

last 32bit OS I used was Windows XP.

btarunrPCI slots

Good point.
Could someone explain why are there still SO MANY boards with damn PCI slots? I've been looking for a Z170(!!!) board for my wife's PC last week and some of the boards even have two PCI slots! My brain is full of f*ck!

cdawallI am actually going to call BS on that one. 13.5 will run a 390, not well and it did BSOD on occasion, but it actually recognized the card and worked.

That's because the 390 and 290 are essentially the same card, and 13.5 had the beginning of support for the R9 200 cards. Will it work on Fiji? I highly doubt it.

jigar2speedI don't understand why do you need latest 32 bit driver when old drivers would work just fine. It is not as if old drivers are going to get deleted.

Couple of things.

1.) When you go to the driver download page they have made it almost impossible to find the 32-bit drivers. When you click on the link to take you to the 32-bit drivers it now takes you to a knowledge base page with no link to download the drivers.
So yes, essentially the old driver have gone away. Sure, you can use the driver from Windows Update, but its usually several months old.

2.) The old drivers won't work with new computers when Zen comes out.

DragonsmonkThen you work in a very specialized market, which does not even make a fraction of the picture.

Probably, I work with several printing companies that have massive printers that require 32-bit computers to manage and send jobs to. Printers that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to replace.

I also work with several companies that still run software that they had custom made 15 years ago, that only runs on 32-bit versions of Windows. Software that manages their entire company and the cheapest estimate we received for replacing this software was $30,000.

A fraction of the picture? Sure. But for a company that needs all the business it can get, completely dropping 32-bit is a stupid move. They don't have to keep the 32-bit drivers on the same development cycle as the 64-bit, that isn't what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is releasing a 32-bit driver a couple times a year should be done.

DragonsmonkI have yet to install a system where the normal "pre-installed" gra-ca drivers aren't up to scratch to do office work, be it Windows or Linux.

Again, that is nice for now. But when new products come out and there are no drivers available at all?

DragonsmonkThere are also a great deal of ways of dealing with the need for 32-bit software on a 64-bit system that does not require Windows XP on bare metal.

Sure there are ways, but none are as good as running OS natively on the computer. And in the case of my printer clients, a virtual machine will not properly interface with their printers.

And I'm not talking about XP. I just installed a Windows 10 computer to control their printers. I don't know why everyone seems to want to think 32-bit means XP. Do you all not realize every version of Windows has had a 32-bit version? If it isn't a big part of the market worth considering, you have to wonder why Microsoft will releases 32-bit software...

john_Businesses anyway go for Intel systems because Intel buys it's way into the business market.

Not the business I support. I custom build almost exclusively AMD systems for them. They are just down right cheaper, and my customers like that.

john_Now if businesses keep using 32bit Windows when Zen comes out, probably they will not have the money to upgrade their hardware anyway.

That is a bit off base. Just because a company needs 32-bit Windows because they don't want to spend $500,000 replacing their printer, or $30,000 to replace their software, doesn't mean they don't have the money to replace computers.

? in what world does a 15 year old printer need a brand new computer to send jobs to it? If it ain't broke don't fix it. Good lord you love arguing.