ValantarDo you use that at a "monitor" or "TV" viewing distance? I'm reluctant to go beyond 27", at least for vertical panel size, at regular desk viewing distances. A 21:9 34" would probably be good, but anything beyond that would require me to move my head to see it all, making any PC UI pretty much useless. Of course, this is very subjective. But 65" at a regular desk viewing distance (like in the pictures here)? That's ridiculous.

Yes, I do use it at regular monitor distance. My desk isn't deep enough to sit it back any further. I am waiting on those 34" 200Hz HDR G-Sync screens. I have thought about getting a cheap G-sync screen to hold me over but I like to be able to sit back in my chair put my feet on the desk and still play a controller game without having to squint at a 27" monitor. I used to use a 32" 1080p TV as a monitor as well. I haven't used a real monitor in a long time lol.

OLED Gsync would be a dream but It doesn't sound like it is happening anytime soon and I am tired of waiting. I have seen the Q-LED vs OLED demos at the local store and either OLED looks amazing or they had the QLED panel setup poorly. The blacks on the QLED still looked a bit grayish.

Yes, sitting at this distance with displays this size is ridiculous.

Rich KnappWas thinking the same thing! Obviously no G-Sync!

See my post above #14 for an explainer on how that statement is entirely wrong. Tl;dr: what you're seeing is the camera's shutter speed being significantly slower than the refresh rate of the display (along with some rather fast-paced movement on-screen), not lack of G-sync or on-screen blur.

UpgrayeddYes, I do use it at regular monitor distance. My desk isn't deep enough to sit it back any further. I am waiting on those 34" 200Hz HDR G-Sync screens. I have thought about getting a cheap G-sync screen to hold me over but I like to be able to sit back in my chair put my feet on the desk and still play a controller game without having to squint at a 27" monitor. I used to use a 32" 1080p TV as a monitor as well. I haven't used a real monitor in a long time lol.

OLED Gsync would be a dream but It doesn't sound like it is happening anytime soon and I am tired of waiting. I have seen the Q-LED vs OLED demos at the local store and either OLED looks amazing or they had the QLED panel setup poorly. The blacks on the QLED still looked a bit grayish.

Yes, sitting at this distance with displays this size is ridiculous.

Wow, I kind of admire your dedication to big-screen computing - I would go crazy (and probably need a neck brace within a week) if I used a setup like that. To each their own, I guess. Think I saw a news post that Nvidia said 34" HDR G-sync was coming in Q2 this year, so it's not that far out.

As for OLED, while it's tempting for the looks, sadly burn-in makes it entirely unsuitable for PC use (unless you never, ever have your desktop or taskbar visible, or have apps sitting at the same spot for a long time. There's no compensation tech that can prevent it (unless it were to shift your taskbar icons and any other semi-static imagery around by several inches at frequent intervals), so you'd see significant burn-in in a year or two at the most. In essence, OLED on PC requires a complete redesign of the Windows UI. Nothing can compare to its actual black black-levels, but VA panels come pretty close (3000:1 contrast ratio, more on great panels). VA with local dimming and sufficient lighting zones should be a decent replacement. QLED does nothing for black levels though, as it's simply a gimmicky brand name for quantum dot coatings on the backlight LEDs to increase colour gamut. Didn't Acer or Asus preview a monitor with something like 100 000:1 or 1M:1 contrast ratio a year or two ago, with a second "dimming" LCD panel behind the picture-generating one, with the sole function of providing per-pixel local dimming? While expensive as all heck and rather inefficient (due to transmission losses through the thicker display stack), it seems like a good compromise.

Even if I have money to buy I still have not enough space to place it.
For desk & chair setup a 27-30 inch monitor is more than enough. Anything bigger than that should migrate to couch setup.

ValantarAs for OLED, while it's tempting for the looks, sadly burn-in makes it entirely unsuitable for PC use (unless you never, ever have your desktop or taskbar visible, or have apps sitting at the same spot for a long time.

What about a dynamic desktop? Dynamic icons? Floating icons that change colors? Or something like a bubble that buncha shortcuts fit into that floats around a dynamic wallpaper once you mouse over the bubble it stops so you can pick your icon without chasing it too far. Dynamic wallpapers have been around a while so why not the UI? Maybe once OLED becomes more popular?

UpgrayeddWhat about a dynamic desktop? Dynamic icons? Floating icons that change colors? Or something like a bubble that buncha shortcuts fit into that floats around a dynamic wallpaper once you mouse over the bubble it stops so you can pick your icon without chasing it too far. Dynamic wallpapers have been around a while so why not the UI? Maybe once OLED becomes more popular?

You do realize how ridiculously impractical and contrived that sounds, right? Dynamic icons wouldn't really help, as their shape/outline and high-contrast features would still burn in. Hiding the taskbar would help, but only for the taskbar and its icons. The same goes for any window borders and static UI elements such as browser tab and URL bars and so on - unless you want your browser window to dance around randomly at short intervals, or want to manually move it around constantly while browsing. As I said: it would require a full redesign of the Windows desktop, and not even that would alleviate burn-in completely. The redesign would definitely not be for the better either - UI design made to counteract technological limitations (as opposed to design based on improving usability and ease of interaction) is a horrible idea. Of course, there are plenty of skinning apps that can let you do this if you really want to, but requiring it for anyone wanting an OLED monitor? Yeah, no thanks.

I used to work in retail, and I've seen enough burn-in on less-than-a-year-old Samsung phones (running constantly looping ~5 minute demo videos within store hours, off outside of opening hours (with no elements static for more than a few seconds)) that's really, really bad. For a PC used more than an hour or two a day, burn-in would show up very, very quickly.

UpgrayeddOLED Gsync would be a dream but It doesn't sound like it is happening anytime soon and I am tired of waiting. I have seen the Q-LED vs OLED demos at the local store and either OLED looks amazing or they had the QLED panel setup poorly. The blacks on the QLED still looked a bit grayish.

QLED is just a branding name for displays referring to two different technologies;
1) LCD with a "quantum dot filter"
2) "Real" QLED, wich will have self-emissive pixels like OLED. Mass production of such displays is expected to begin in 2019. This will be a real competitor to OLED in picture quality.

HDR on LCD is pointless, since they use "cheating" like local dimming to create enough contrast, at the cost of terrible picture quality.

OLED offers clearly superior picture quality, but still suffers from some issues such as limited shadow detail, "burn-in" problems, etc. While OLED (and possibly "real QLED") will be offering the best picture quality going forward, I think we are still in the mist between the good plasmas and the point where OLED is really good enough in all the metrics that matter, and that we're still a few years from getting there. That's why I'm holding off buying a new "TV" for now. Hopefully when "real QLED" arrives we can finally see some real competiton in picture quality again.

Just buy a 34" ultra-wide. Same horizontal size, but better FOV.

efikkanQLED is just a branding name for displays referring to two different technologies;
1) LCD with a "quantum dot filter"
2) "Real" QLED, wich will have self-emissive pixels like OLED. Mass production of such displays is expected to begin in 2019. This will be a real competitor to OLED in picture quality.

HDR on LCD is pointless, since they use "cheating" like local dimming to create enough contrast, at the cost of terrible picture quality.

OLED offers clearly superior picture quality, but still suffers from some issues such as limited shadow detail, "burn-in" problems, etc. While OLED (and possibly "real QLED") will be offering the best picture quality going forward, I think we are still in the mist between the good plasmas and the point where OLED is really good enough in all the metrics that matter, and that we're still a few years from getting there. That's why I'm holding off buying a new "TV" for now. Hopefully when "real QLED" arrives we can finally see some real competiton in picture quality again.

"Real QLED" is essentially a micro-LED display with a quantum dot filter for improved colour gamut, right? As in: Samsung's Wall, just improved and less concept-y/commercial application oriented.

It doesn't look like 65" to me.

UpgrayeddOLED Gsync would be a dream but It doesn't sound like it is happening anytime soon and I am tired of waiting.

AMD FreeSync has made it into HDMI 2.1 standard.
On top of not having to pay huge premium to Huang, you are getting variable refresh rates with existing consoles.

efikkan"Real" QLED, wich will have self-emissive pixels like OLED.

Sounds... like Samsung's BS.

medi01AMD FreeSync has made it into HDMI 2.1 standard.
On top of not having to pay huge premium to Huang, you are getting variable refresh rates with existing consoles.

Sounds... like Samsung's BS.

a) That's a misconception. VRR has been a(n optional) part of the VESA DP standard for ages - HDMI is simply catching up as the tech is becoming relevant to the mainstream. That HDMI is adopting a solution technically similar to the VESA standard is pretty much a given (way too expensive and complex to develop a third standard, not to mention there'd be no existing compatibility.

b) Not having to pay a royalty is nice, of course. AMD is smart to adopt open standards, I just wish they'd get their console partners to push them a bit more.

c) Why 'BS'? Are non-backlit displays with self-emissive pixels BS, for some reason? Yes, Samsung's Wall thingy is indeed something getting close to this. It's been on the books for years, the new thing here is real large-scale prototype hardware. OLED is also self-emissive. As are LED displays. And a whole host of other technologies (CRT, among others).

ValantarVRR has been a(n optional) part of the VESA DP standard for ages

Yeah. Too bad none of the existing OLED TVs has a DP port, let alone supports VRR over it.

ValantarThat HDMI is adopting a solution technically similar to the VESA standard

Which is "technically similar" to AMD FreeSync. To a point PS4 and XBone support it. Oh wait.

ValantarAMD is smart to adopt open standards

Not adopting standards THEY have created would be hilarious.

ValantarWhy 'BS'? Are non-backlit displays with self-emissive pixels BS, for some reason?

At best you are looking at FALD.
They rolled the same BS back in 2017 (maybe even earlier, I didn't bother checking)
www.trustedreviews.com/opinion/what-is-qled-the-future-of-tv-tech-explained-2945941

WHAT QLED IS NOT
QLED is not an emissive display technology, like plasma, OLED, or even your old cathode ray tube (CRT) TV in the basement. Quantum dots don’t directly emit the colors you see; they’re spread on a piece of film that acts almost as a filter within an LED TV panel. LED backlights beam through this film, the light is refined to an ideal color temperature, and from there, brightness and color are significantly enhanced.
www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/qled-vs-oled-tv/

medi01Yeah. Too bad none of the existing OLED TVs has a DP port, let alone supports VRR over it.

Which is "technically similar" to AMD FreeSync. To a point PS4 and XBone support it. Oh wait.

Not adopting standards THEY have created would be hilarious.

We're apparently talking past each other here.

First: sure, AMD was likely involved in the development of the VESA DP Adaptive Sync standard. That doesn't make it "a standard [AMD] created" in any way though. That's a gross oversimplification at best. FS is an AMD variant (well, mostly rebranding, though with some extensions (that are being rolled back into the VESA DP-AS standard) if I understand it correctly) of an existing open standard created by a standards body. Not AMD, at the very least not AMD alone. It's "technically similar" as in the technical underpinnings are virtually identical, which is only logical given that AMD built on the existing standard. That AMD was the first (and so far the only) ones to popularize a variant of Adaptive Sync - and have so far done a great job at it - doesn't make it any more of an AMD technology at its core. FS is, and will seemingly continue to be, a variant of VESA DP Adaptive Sync. Of course, this gets more complex with FS-over-HDMI (existing) and Adaptive Sync over HDMI 2.1 (upcoming). Not to mention FS2, which seems to be more of a certification programme also including a few non-Adaptive Sync related technologies. This is in no way an attempt at undermining the great work AMD has done in making DP-AS something that actually exists in the real world, but simply a statement of fact. FS, an AMD tech, is a minor variation on DP-AS, a VESA standard (and hence not an AMD tech).

medi01At best you are looking at FALD.
They rolled the same BS back in 2017 (maybe even earlier, I didn't bother checking)
www.trustedreviews.com/opinion/what-is-qled-the-future-of-tv-tech-explained-2945941

WHAT QLED IS NOT
QLED is not an emissive display technology, like plasma, OLED, or even your old cathode ray tube (CRT) TV in the basement. Quantum dots don’t directly emit the colors you see; they’re spread on a piece of film that acts almost as a filter within an LED TV panel. LED backlights beam through this film, the light is refined to an ideal color temperature, and from there, brightness and color are significantly enhanced.
www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/qled-vs-oled-tv/

What we're talking about here, using the (rather meaningless, jerry-rigged) term "real QLED" is not this. We're talking about actually self-emissive pixels, although not OLED-based. The Samsung trade name QLED is of course not this (but rather what you're going to great efforts to mansplain to us, as if it isn't common knowledge and hasn't been addressed earlier in the thread), but that's not what we're talking about either. What we're discussing is the future arrival of actually self-emissive quantum dot-infused micro-LED displays, for which "Quantum LED" would be a sensible moniker. Which, again, are self-emissive, not FALD or anything similar, and not an effort of Samsung's to somehow make their LED-backlit LCD displays sound super-duper-special. Okay? The reason for discussing this is that it's something that has been in development for some years, and that will arrive - we just don't know when, how, or from whom.

ValantarFirst: sure, AMD was likely involved in the development of the VESA DP Adaptive Sync standard. That doesn't make it "a standard [AMD] created" in any way though.

That's a standard AMD has created and passed over to VESA and HDMI Forum for adoption, that's why its card/APUs can communicate with both DP 1.4a and HDMI 2.1 VRR.
"Was likely involved" is QLED level of twisting reality. (which sorta kinda almost looks like OLED)

ValantarAMD built on the existing standard.

FFS...

Valantarterm "real QLED" is not this

Wake me up, when "real QLED" hits the market, if it ever happens.

medi01That's a standard AMD has created and passed over to VESA and HDMI Forum for adoption, that's why its card/APUs can communicate with both DP 1.4a and HDMI 2.1 VRR.
"Was likely involved" is QLED level of twisting reality. (which sorta kinda almost looks like OLED)

Adaptive Sync was added to the eDP standard in 2009. AMD pushed for the expansion of this into the DP 1.2 standard in 2014, but there were no fundamental changes to this already established standard at that point. AMD then implemented software and firmware support for this in their GPUs and APUs, which was rather easy seeing how they were already eDP-compliant (including any relevant optional standards), and started marketing it under the FreeSync brand.

Did AMD have a hand in creating eDP AS back in <2009? Sure, I don't doubt that. But even so, given that they left the standard entirely to VESA for 6-ish years, there's nothing compelling saying this is an AMD tech and not a VESA tech. Besides, isn't that generally how standards bodies operate; their member companies/organizations suggest technologies and standards that are then vetted and amended by the others, before the standard is accepted. At that point, the standards body "owns" it, not whoever initially suggested it.

medi01Wake me up, when "real QLED" hits the market, if it ever happens.

That was exactly what we were discussing - could Samsung's (rather dumb, but still promising) "Wall" thingy be an indication that (quantum dot-enhanced, for added color gamut) LED SEDs are coming? I'm hoping for this, given how unsuitable OLED is turning out to be for ... well, anything, really. I find this interesting to discuss. If you don't, I suggest you go somewhere else, or at least read the actual discussion before derailing it with trying to explain the obvious.

ValantarAdaptive Sync was added to the eDP standard in 2009

Ah, DP 1.4a VRR = eDP and was there for ages, I see, remind me, why did nvidia invest into that lovely "gsync" thing?

Valantar...could Samsung's (rather dumb, but still promising) "Wall" thingy be an indication..

Lol.