Friday, July 3rd 2020

Chinese Manufacturer ProArtist Solves AM4 CPU Mounting Problem with New IFE2 Bracket

Jul 3rd, 2020 02:42 Discuss (57 Comments)

The AMD consumer platform has long used PGA design chips, and this is no different with the AM4 platform. While this design reduces motherboard costs it comes with an unfortunate downside, PGA processors have a habit of sticking to the heatsink when attempting to remove or replace your heatsink. This problem is so commonplace that AMD has published guides online outlining the correct heatsink removal process which involves "twisting the CPU cooler clockwise and counterclockwise to loosen the seal between the heatsink and the lid of the CPU".

Chinese manufacturer ProArtist has created an ingenious solution, the IEF2 AM4 CPU mounting bracket. The bracket replaces the included mounting hardware on motherboards replacing it with spacers secured to a metal mounting place which heatsinks can then be attached to. This bracket ensures that the CPU won't be damaged when removing heatsinks. The bracket is non-standard so only compatibility with ProArtist coolers such as the DESSERTS3 is guaranteed. The IEF2 AM4 CPU mounting bracket is available only in China from Taobao for less than 5 USD.

Sources: Chiphell - kthlon, Overclock3d

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57 Comments on Chinese Manufacturer ProArtist Solves AM4 CPU Mounting Problem with New IFE2 Bracket

#26

$ReaPeR$

this looks nice, but it will be perfect if amd adopts it and makes it a standard.

#27

TechLurker

I could see Noctua probably being one of the first to do this; if not AMD themselves by modifying the plastic, stock cooler retention "bars" to also include a hold down bracket (or setting a separate CPU holding bracket below the two bars, so that the cpu holding bracket can be reused with other coolers). Possibly Scythe, BeQuiet, and Cooler Master too.

#28

$ReaPeR$

TechLurkerI could see Noctua probably being one of the first to do this; if not AMD themselves by modifying the plastic, stock cooler retention "bars" to also include a hold down bracket (or setting a separate CPU holding bracket below the two bars, so that the cpu holding bracket can be reused with other coolers). Possibly Scythe, BeQuiet, and Cooler Master too.

imo noctua should have already done that. they are awesome when it comes to the small details. they have the best retention mechanism after all..

#29

hzy4

they should partner with AMD and give it to every new AMD CPU

#30

Jism

I am with AMD since the Socket 7 era. That is the first K6 untill now the Ryzen 2700x. I mean if you want to remove any cooler, simply uncork the thing that holds the cooler into place, now easy twist left, right, left, right, till it comes off on it's own. You dont have to pull as you might pull the complete CPU out of it's socket. It's not that hard.

#31

Dammeron

silentbogoThat was my nightmare on sFM2+. Not because of my lack of patience, but mostly from customers trying to change TIM and killing MoBo in the process. I still have 5-6 boards in the office with shredded socket internals. I think the main issue is not sticky TIM, but rather the quality of socket itself, just like with easily bent pins on LGA115x.

If You think this was a nightmare, then go back to S462 era, where You could rip off the core from the PCB. That was fun - to see Your perfect, selected Athlon XP (manufactured before 39 week of 2003 with unlocked multiplier) completely ruined. :P

#32

Totally

DammeronIf You think this was a nightmare, then go back to S462 era, where You could rip off the core from the PCB. That was fun - to see Your perfect, selected Athlon XP (manufactured before 39 week of 2003 with unlocked multiplier) completely ruined. :p

About to see repeats of that if this becomes a product as shown

#33

silentbogo

DammeronIf You think this was a nightmare, then go back to S462 era, where You could rip off the core from the PCB.

That was the time I actually got into electronics repair. If you remember ripped dies, then you should also remember an infamous Titan D5TB cooler, and the amount of holes people put through their motherboards while mounting that stupid clip with a flathead screwdriver. :D :D :D

#34

Dammeron

silentbogoIf you remember ripped dies, then you should also remember an infamous Titan D5TB cooler, and the amount of holes people put through their motherboards while mounting that stupid clip with a flathead screwdriver. :D :D :D

And coupled with Titan's shitty thermal paste, that could short circuit some bridges if not applied with care... But yeah, those clips for mounting Socket A coolers were a menace. That's why I quickly switched to Thermalright - screws FTW. :D

#35

Valantar

silentbogoThat was the time I actually got into electronics repair. If you remember ripped dies, then you should also remember an infamous Titan D5TB cooler, and the amount of holes people put through their motherboards while mounting that stupid clip with a flathead screwdriver. :D :D :D

Let me make sure I'm getting this right: you needed to use a flathead screw driver inserted into an open-ended slot on the end of a lever to force it down and attach the clip? Dear lord, that sounds like they were purposely aiming to break as many things as possible.

#36

silentbogo

ValantarLet me make sure I'm getting this right: you needed to use a flathead screw driver inserted into an open-ended slot on the end of a lever to force it down and attach the clip?

Yep, exactly that.

#37

A Computer Guy

TotallySo instead of stressing the pins, stressing the the substrate and package is better? Instead of ripping the cpu out of the socket the witless will just be trying to rip the IHS off the CPU. It just becomes a matter of what gives out first paste or the substrate. This is a stupid idea too wrapped up on how clever it thinks it is.

I came here just to post this.

I think this concept would work better if the corners of the IHS were recessed and the bracket used that instead.

#38

Valantar

silentbogoYep, exactly that.

#39

Vayra86

ValantarAre you actually suggesting that dry thermal paste can create a stronger bond than solder?

Oh dear.

As for this bracket: while I kind of see its utility, I have trouble understanding how difficult it is to twist the cooler a bit back and forth to get the TIM to let go.

Paste?! I use superglue because its a 'bond that never breaks'. Said so on the package... :pimp:

#40

Valantar

Haile SelassieYes, but it's not the TIM itself, but the vacuum force.
Yes, it is possible to tear the rtv adhesive using vacuum force only. This is why ZIF AM4 socket doesn't have this. And this is why LGA socket CPUs have a flange on the IHS, rather than to make contact on the organic substrate.

... there will only be vacuum force as long as the TIM creates a solid seal. This seal will break given the application of sufficient force, or any twisting or sideways movement. Given that the adhesion from the TIM is weaker than the adhesion from the glue holding the IHS down, this is a non-issue - though repeated stress might weaken the glue over time and cause it to eventually fail. On the other hand, the reason for Intel having a flange on their IHS is to distribute the clamping force necessary to ensure sufficient contact with the LGA pins - if pressure was put on the (flexible fiberglass and copper sandwich) substrate rather than the IHS, the mounting pressure would be very unevenly distributed (mainly focused around the contact points of the bracket), causing all kinds of contact issues for the CPU. This would be a major reliability issue in and of itself, but you could of course add to this the fragility of the substrate (especially after they thinned it down around SKL) and how it would eventually crack and fail even if left entirely alone (thermal fluctuations would likely accelerate this too). So while the chance of ripping the IHS off its glue was probably also thought of when they decided to add flanges to their IHSes, it was by no means the main or even one of the major reasons for it to be implemented.

#41

Haile Selassie

Valantar... there will only be vacuum force as long as the TIM creates a solid seal. This seal will break given the application of sufficient force, or any twisting or sideways movement. Given that the adhesion from the TIM is weaker than the adhesion from the glue holding the IHS down, this is a non-issue - though repeated stress might weaken the glue over time and cause it to eventually fail. On the other hand, the reason for Intel having a flange on their IHS is to distribute the clamping force necessary to ensure sufficient contact with the LGA pins - if pressure was put on the (flexible fiberglass and copper sandwich) substrate rather than the IHS, the mounting pressure would be very unevenly distributed (mainly focused around the contact points of the bracket), causing all kinds of contact issues for the CPU. This would be a major reliability issue in and of itself, but you could of course add to this the fragility of the substrate (especially after they thinned it down around SKL) and how it would eventually crack and fail even if left entirely alone (thermal fluctuations would likely accelerate this too). So while the chance of ripping the IHS off its glue was probably also thought of when they decided to add flanges to their IHSes, it was by no means the main or even one of the major reasons for it to be implemented.

Sure, you speak for the entire electrical interconnect consortium, right? Do not make assumptions if you were nowhere near when PRDs were made for said latching mechanism.

#42

Valantar

Haile SelassieSure, you speak for the entire electrical interconnect consortium, right? Do not make assumptions if you were nowhere near when PRDs were made for said latching mechanism.

I dont claim to do, but then again, I assume you don't either? Do you have any proof or arguments to back up your claims?

#43

Totally

ValantarAre you actually suggesting that dry thermal paste can create a stronger bond than solder?

The die that the solder bonds to sure isn't

#44

Valantar

TotallyThe die that the solder bonds to sure isn't

What, the bond between the die and the substrate is weaker than the TIM's adhesion to the cooler? Or do you mean the die itself actually chipping off? This is getting more absurd by the minute.

#45

Totally

ValantarWhat, the bond between the die and the substrate is weaker than the TIM's adhesion to the cooler? Or do you mean the die itself actually chipping off? This is getting more absurd by the minute.

Die itself, its happened before so it isn't absurd as you think.

#46

Haile Selassie

ValantarI dont claim to do, but then again, I assume you don't either? Do you have any proof or arguments to back up your claims?

I may have, but then again why I would ever disclose any information of such sort onto the public forum to a random stranger. There's that thing called IP, NDA and potential jail time.

#47

Tom Yum

Interesting design. I thought the twist left, twist right with a warm heatsink was industry practise since IHS equipped CPU's were released. I've never had a CPU get ripped out of its socket that way (or felt I was getting close to doing that).

I wonder if also it is a symptom of poor thermal paste application as well. A vacuum requires there to be a pressure differential between the outside and inside (IHS/heatsink interface). If the thermal paste is a solid then there is no compressible medium with which a pressure differential could form, but there could be one if voids were left in the paste between IHS and heatsink. Over time heated air would leak out of those voids, leaving a vacuum when the heatsink cools again.

#48

Valantar

Haile SelassieI may have, but then again why I would ever disclose any information of such sort onto the public forum to a random stranger. There's that thing called IP, NDA and potential jail time.

Jail time? For an NDA? Well, you just proved that you have never seen nor signed an NDA. NDAs are firmly in the realm of civil law, not criminal law, and only criminal law can send you to jail. What is the point of this posturing?

TotallyDie itself, its happened before so it isn't absurd as you think.

A chipped die is nothing new, sure, but a chipped die from the IHS being pulled off by the TIM bonding it to the heatsink? You're going to need to provide some sort of evidence for that one. It's not hard to chip the die if you are delidding and do it wrong (or get unlucky), but then it is either due to the IHS hitting the die when it comes loose and putting a lot of pressure on one spot (or just plain knocking loose a fragment of the die), or due to the strength of the solder joint and the IHS being exposed to extreme forces (in a vise, for example). I mean, if this was this easy, why did people use a vise or buy specialized delidding tools in the first place?

#49

Haile Selassie

ValantarJail time? For an NDA? Well, you just proved that you have never seen nor signed an NDA. NDAs are firmly in the realm of civil law, not criminal law, and only criminal law can send you to jail. What is the point of this posturing?

A chipped die is nothing new, sure, but a chipped die from the IHS being pulled off by the TIM bonding it to the heatsink? You're going to need to provide some sort of evidence for that one. It's not hard to chip the die if you are delidding and do it wrong (or get unlucky), but then it is either due to the IHS hitting the die when it comes loose and putting a lot of pressure on one spot (or just plain knocking loose a fragment of the die), or due to the strength of the solder joint and the IHS being exposed to extreme forces (in a vise, for example). I mean, if this was this easy, why did people use a vise or buy specialized delidding tools in the first place?

Lol apparently you have never signed a NDA at a multi-billion dollar company with government ties, where you are criminally liable for any IP or data theft or leak. Top tier gpu manufacturer's NDA or perhaps chipzilla's NDA (to dumb it down for you as you apparently have no clue about interconnect industry) is nothing compared to what certain companies enforce on their employees and partners.

And yes, severe breach of NDA may also end up as an industrial espionage charge by federal prosecution so the joke is actually on you. Go look up a few latest fanous cases to educate yourself.

And p.s. nobody is obligated to provide you any proof for any statement, you're not the forum judge, merely a wannabe righteous keyboard warrior.

#50

Valantar

Haile SelassieLol apparently you have never signed a NDA at a multi-billion dollar company with government ties, where you are criminally liable for any IP or data theft or leak. Top tier gpu manufacturer's NDA or perhaps chipzilla's NDA (to dumb it down for you as you apparently have no clue about interconnect industry) is nothing compared to what certain companies enforce on their employees and partners.

And yes, severe breach of NDA may also end up as an industrial espionage charge by federal prosecution so the joke is actually on you. Go look up a few latest fanous cases to educate yourself.

And p.s. nobody is obligated to provide you any proof for any statement, you're not the forum judge, merely a wannabe righteous keyboard warrior.

Dude, get off your damn high horse. Please. If I am a 'wannabe righteous keyboard warrior' (righteous in regard to what? I'm genuinely curious.), I'm not even going to put into words what you are acting like. Stop making a fool of yourself. I am simply trying to have a cohesive on-topic argument here - which is what a forum is for, right? - you are the one stepping in with outlandish statements that you subsequently refuse to back up with any kind of proof. If you expect someone to trust what you say, you actually need to provide some sort of basis for trust. As of now, all you have provided is "look at me, I'm a big shot, stfu and listen to what I'm saying". Which is, as I said, empty posturing, entirely devoid of substance. As to what you are saying about NDAs, I guess that might apply in thoroughly corrupt states where the letter of the law has no value. In countries where laws work as they are supposed to (which for the record is the vast majority of applicable countries in a discussion like this) this won't be possible. And getting charged with industrial espionage for posting mostly general information on a forum? Don't be daft. That case wouldn't hold up in even the most corrupt court - espionage requires a competitor of the company in question to be involved and (trying to) benefit from it, after all. You might be liable for absurd sums of monetary damages, but jail time? Not a chance. Not to mention that what we are talking about here - the mechanical specifications of an LGA socket's mounting system - is an extremely simple and mundane thing. It might be included in a document requiring an NDA, but I will guarantee you that it isn't the key part of that document. I mean, anyone with a Solidworks licence and some mechanical engineering chops could simulate what we are talking about in half an hour. And said simulation would, of course, show that your statement that the vacuum force created by TIM adhesion to a heatsink is nowhere near strong enough to break a solder bond between an IHS and die or die and substrate. Now can we leave this dumb offshoot of the discussion, please? You're just painting yourself further into a corner with each post.

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Chinese Manufacturer ProArtist Solves AM4 CPU Mounting Problem with New IFE2 Bracket

57 Comments on Chinese Manufacturer ProArtist Solves AM4 CPU Mounting Problem with New IFE2 Bracket

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