Wednesday, August 31st 2022

AMD Ryzen 7000X3D Series Reveal by CES 2023?

Aug 31st, 2022 12:22 Discuss (41 Comments)

We already know that AMD is working on a variant of the "Zen 4" CPU complex die (CCD) featuring 3D Vertical Cache (3DV-cache) memory, through company roadmaps, and AMD even confirmed to us that the technology continues to be a part of the client roadmap of the company. We're now getting news that the first Ryzen 7000X3D ("Zen 4" with 3DV cache) processors could be unveiled by the 2023 International CES (January next year). It appears like while the conventional Ryzen 7000 series beats the 12th Gen Core "Alder Lake" at gaming, it might trade blows with the 13th Gen "Raptor Lake," and AMD will count on the 3DV cache technology to give it a competitive edge.

Greymon55, a reliable source with AMD leaks, hints at the possibility of three 7000X3D-series SKUs: the Ryzen 7 7800X3D (8-core/16-thread) positioned above the 7700X; the Ryzen 9 7900X3D (12-core/24-thread), and the Ryzen 9 7950X3D (16-core/32-thread). Older reports suggest the 3DV cache on these processors will be a generation more advanced to keep sync with the on-die L3 cache of the "Zen 4" CCD, and the L3D (the die on which the 3DV cache is located), will likely be built on the 6 nm process.

Sources: Greymon55 (Twitter), Wccftech

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41 Comments on AMD Ryzen 7000X3D Series Reveal by CES 2023?

NeuralNexus

Greymon is taking credit for information that Moore's Law is Dead dropped this week. Quite pathetic of these "leakers" to take credit for another person's work. Anyway, I'm waiting for the V-Cache parts. I am not writing off AMD like many of the INTEL fanboys are doing.

Hyderz

this will be interesting! cant wait to see the reviews

ZoneDymo

NeuralNexusGreymon is taking credit for information that Moore's Law is Dead dropped this week. Quite pathetic of these "leakers" to take credit for another person's work. Anyway, I'm waiting for the V-Cache parts. I am not writing off AMD like many of the INTEL fanboys are doing.

"leaking" in general is pretty pathetic imo, it is of no impact, free easy speculation, no value.

Punkenjoy

I like leaking but i see as looking at it as a hobby and take the data at face value. Anyway, it's not really important in the long run because you can't buy stuff that is not released.

I just start to take it a bit more into account when you get closer to release date and leaks become more common. you can maybe plan upgrade and stuff but that is mostly it.

But the thing i hate about some of the leakers, is their doom video. Nvidia is doom, AMD is in trouble, Intel will get rekt. etc. That is almost never the case. I recall AMD selling CPU that were trailing Intel CPU by more than 40% and having huge issue releasing GPU and still, look at them now.

ModEl4

7800X3D $549 (+$100 vs $449 7800X theoretical option, same as 7900X) just calculate the v-Cache chiplet die size add copper to copper bonding cost/TSVs cost and realize there is no way AMD to sell for just +$50 more from $449 theoretical 7800X option.

7900X3D $699 (+$150 vs 7900X, same as 7950X, $100x1.5X (theoretical 12core/8core MT difference) and middle ground between $100 & $200 increases, also what difference 7900X3D will have vs 7950X in those multithreading apps that benefit from V-cache?)

7950X3D $899 (2X$100, double the 7800X3D vs 7800X increase )

in Europe the last 1.5 month 5800X3D was around 14%-20% more expensive than 5900X!

Space Lynx

Astronaut

I am tempted to get a 7600X at launch, then upgrade to a 7800X3D or 7900X3D and just take the loss on the re-sale of the 7600x. None of this matters though, as I am not buying anything until I have a high end RDNA3 or high end RTX 4000 series card in my hand. Once I have the Ultima GPU in my hand, then I will be ready for the greatest build of my life! and possibly the last, as gray hairs have started to form on my head at a rapid pace... one last rig before the shadows of Mordor come!

Zunexxx

ModEl47800X3D $549 (+$100 vs $449 7800X theoretical option, same as 7900X) just calculate the v-Cache chiplet die size add copper to copper bonding cost and TSVs cost and realize there is no way AMD to sell for just +$50 more from $449 theoretical 7800X option.

7900X3D $699 (+$150 vs 7900X, same as 7950X, $100x1.5X (theoretical 12core/8core MT difference) and middle ground between $100 & $200 increases)

7950X3D $899 (2X$100, double the 7800X3D vs 7800X increase )

in Europe the last 1.5 month 5800X3D was around 14%-20% more expensive than 5900X!

Doubt that's the pricing structure. 7800x probably will not exist, and 7800x3d will probably be 100 more than 7700x, which is 499. 7900x3d should be around 649 and the 7950x3d probably 799-849. Pricing structure is using the amount of cache added, not related to how many cores it has. They still have to slot the 3D cache versions a little lower than the above tier. 5800x3d was kind of a one off and like a first gen product, charged higher. I don't expect the second gen ones on Ryzen 7000 to up charge that much.

ModEl4

ZunexxxDoubt that's the pricing structure. 7800x probably will not exist, and 7800x3d will probably be 100 more than 7700x, which is 499. 7900x3d should be around 649 and the 7950x3d probably 799-849. Pricing structure is using the amount of cache added, not related to how many cores it has. They still have to slot the 3D cache versions a little lower than the above tier. 5800x3d was kind of a one off and like a first gen product, charged higher. I don't expect the second gen ones on Ryzen 7000 to up charge that much.

So around -$50 from my assumption per model?
Maybe, but that's the optimistic scenario imo.
Mine is a little bit more pessimistic because AMD has shown the last 2 years that when it doesn't have competition they are really milking it! (Regarding gaming performance there will not be sufficient competition)
My prediction for 13900K was $649 and +$150 for 13900KS just like in 12th gen, so i don't see a reason AMD to sell 7950X3D at the same price as 13900KS ($799) when their strategy is to price 7700X at $400...

neatfeatguy

I wonder if the 3D 7x00 models will only offer around that 10% performance gain (on average) over it's non-3D counterparts, much like how the 5800X3D out performed the 5800X at 1080p and 1440p resolutions, or offer more/less?

It'll be interesting to see where things end up.

#10

Kursah

Let's play nice please. :toast:

#11

MrDweezil

3DV cache came at the expense of clockspeed last time. I wonder how it will play out this gen, with zen4 being clocked significantly higher.

#12

efikkan

neatfeatguyI wonder if the 3D 7x00 models will only offer around that 10% performance gain (on average) over it's non-3D counterparts, much like how the 5800X3D out performed the 5800X at 1080p and 1440p resolutions, or offer more/less?

Extra L3 cache is not going to affect all games significantly, L3 cache hits are highly dependent on software bloat (more bloat => more dependent on L3). So gamers should look at whether their games specifically benefits from extra L3 cache before paying for it.

Considering that most of the improvements in Zen 4 are either front-end or L2 cache, the relative gain from extra L3 cache may actually be less than Zen 3. Whether a 3D Cache version of Zen 4 becomes relevant will depend its clock speed.

#13

Testsubject01

MrDweezil3DV cache came at the expense of clockspeed last time. I wonder how it will play out this gen, with zen4 being clocked significantly higher.

Supposedly the limitations on voltage and to a smaller degree those resulting from heat were solved in the next iteration of 3DV cache.

Guess we'll find out at CES 2023 and the following 3rd party reviews/ benchmark results.

#14

Guwapo77

efikkanExtra L3 cache is not going to affect all games significantly, L3 cache hits are highly dependent on software bloat (more bloat => more dependent on L3). So gamers should look at whether their games specifically benefits from extra L3 cache before paying for it.

Considering that most of the improvements in Zen 4 are either front-end or L2 cache, the relative gain from extra L3 cache may actually be less than Zen 3. Whether a 3D Cache version of Zen 4 becomes relevant will depend its clock speed.

If you're a gamer, you should only be buying the v-cache versions of AMD CPUs moving forward. Unless you purposely buy games that don't benefit from L3 which would be very odd. Enough games benefit from L3 for it to be a worthy purchase, at least that's what I concluded from Hardware Unboxed and TechPowerUps reviews of the 5800X3D.

If the 3DV are pumping out to 30% higher performance than their stock variants (rumored), it will make them really hard to pass up. I'm trying to hold out till Zen 5, but these rumors sound so damn good. I can't wait till my trusted outlets get these in hand to test.

#15

R0H1T

You mean 30% more than stock zen4, even if just for games? yeah that's not happening unless it can also do DDR5 9000 with some magic ~~crystal~~ dragon balls o_O

#16

Minus Infinity

Did he watch MLiD video earlier this week. Pretty much confirmed v-cache is coming in late Q1 and this new v-cache is regarded as second gen, and the Zen3 v-cache was regarded as beta, so this is more than a generation a head and this is why clocks will be barely affected if at all by v-cache. v-cache models will be beats for gaming and no doubt more useful areas like simulations etc.

Any hoo, 7900X3D will be my next cpu and by then MB prices will have eased and hopefully be second revision and DDR5 prices will have dropped further as well as latencies.

MrDweezil3DV cache came at the expense of clockspeed last time. I wonder how it will play out this gen, with zen4 being clocked significantly higher.

Basically confirmed by internal sources there will be little to no clockspeed penalty with Zen 4. The v-cache is much more advanced and voltages won't be an issue. v-cache on Zen 4 is said to be performing even better than it did on Zen 3.

#17

Count von Schwalbe

PunkenjoyBut the thing i hate about some of the leakers, is their doom video. Nvidia is doom, AMD is in trouble, Intel will get rekt. etc. That is almost never the case. I recall AMD selling CPU that were trailing Intel CPU by more than 40% and having huge issue releasing GPU and still, look at them now.

A standard default of any sort of YT video - waaay too over the top and sensationalist.

Testsubject01Supposedly the limitations on voltage and to a smaller degree those resulting from heat were solved in the next iteration of 3DV cache.

If they had independent pins with a separate voltage control on AM4 they could have unlocked the multiplier of the 5800X3D.

I would imagine that it would be designed into AM5 for that reason.

R0H1TYou mean 30% more than stock zen4, even if just for games? yeah that's not happening unless it can also do DDR5 9000 with some magic ~~crystal~~ dragon balls o_O

Performance increases aside, RAM speeds affect the CPU less as it gains L3 cache - as less of the most commonly used data is fetched from the RAM. This is related to the reason DDR5 is not much better than DDR4 for gaming - the latencies are still much higher. Hmmm, now that I think about it, this could actually have a considerable performance increase due to DDR5 latency being invoked less often.

#18

DrCR

CallandorWoTI am tempted to get a 7600X at launch, then upgrade to a 7800X3D or 7900X3D and just take the loss on the re-sale of the 7600x. None of this matters though, as I am not buying anything until I have a high end RDNA3 or high end RTX 4000 series card in my hand. Once I have the Ultima GPU in my hand, then I will be ready for the greatest build of my life! and possibly the last, as gray hairs have started to form on my head at a rapid pace... one last rig before the shadows of Mordor come!

I’m sort of in the same boat. Whenever it is that you do a build, we’re going to need to know about it — I’ll be most interested in your heatsink and fans choices.

#19

tussinman

CallandorWoTI am tempted to get a 7600X at launch, then upgrade to a 7800X3D or 7900X3D and just take the loss on the re-sale of the 7600x.

To be honest if the 7600x does end up being faster then the 12900k then you might as well just wait till Zen 5, it won't exactly be a temporary chip performance wise

#20

1d10t

Will it make a differences this time around not just in (meh) gaming (duh) ?

#21

Dirt Chip

So, OC of 3D chip only on "E" type motherboards?
Or even better- you must use "E" motherboards in order to fully utilize 3D chip?

#22

jigar2speed

1d10tWill it make a differences this time around not just in (meh) gaming (duh) ?

1d1ot its a targeted gaming CPU, what do you expect from a product specifically designed for gaming to do ?

#23

ratirt

I think the 7800x3d is coming January and that is why AMD releases 7700x instead 7800x. makes sense. I doubt the entire lineup will get the 3dv cache upgrade.
i only hope the 7800x3d will not have lower frequency like the 5800x3d had.

#24

AnarchoPrimitiv

neatfeatguyI wonder if the 3D 7x00 models will only offer around that 10% performance gain (on average) over it's non-3D counterparts, much like how the 5800X3D out performed the 5800X at 1080p and 1440p resolutions, or offer more/less?

It'll be interesting to see where things end up.

A leaked slide shows AMD's own internal testing of A0 Zen4 silicon and A0 Zen4 Silicon with 3d v-cache shows that the improvement by the additional cache averaged around 25%-30%. So, if that holds true with the final silicon, Zen4 with v-cache should be the fastest gaming CPUs, even faster than raptor lake, but we'll see.

#25

Punkenjoy

The fact that 3D-Vcache CPU make this whole release a bit underwhelming and most people should just wait until 3D-Vcache get released. It might be expensive, but it will perform, and there are good chance other CPU will be much cheaper.

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AMD Ryzen 7000X3D Series Reveal by CES 2023?

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