It appears that people don't wants Macs any more, or maybe Apple didn't make the product its customers want.

TheLostSwedeIt appears that people don't wants Macs any more, or maybe Apple didn't make the product its customers want.

Hardly. Compare those numbers with the rest of tech and Apple is clearly doing much better. The fact they are buying back 90 billion in stock at this time when banks are failing is awesome.

Easy RhinoHardly. Compare those numbers with the rest of tech and Apple is clearly doing much better. The fact they are buying back 90 billion in stock at this time when banks are failing is awesome.

Well, when I look at my last 50 or so dividend checks, which have been growing significantly QoQ & YoY, I tend to agree with this statement... and my bank account doesn't give a sh^t whether that money comes from Mac sales, iPhone sales, the Services division or whatever :D..:eek:..:laugh:

Easy RhinoHardly. Compare those numbers with the rest of tech and Apple is clearly doing much better. The fact they are buying back 90 billion in stock at this time when banks are failing is awesome.

Huh? Mac sales are down massively over the past six months. They're making money on services and phones, but even the phone sales aren't great.

TheLostSwedeHuh? Mac sales are down massively over the past six months. They're making money on services and phones, but even the phone sales aren't great.

Sorry when I think "Mac" I think about all of their products.

TheLostSwedeHuh? Mac sales are down massively over the past six months. They're making money on services and phones, but even the phone sales aren't great.

Iphone sales were actually a record high for the quarter so I’m not sure why you are saying they are not that great. They were the best ever for Q1.

DavenIphone sales were actually a record high for the quarter so I’m not sure why you are saying they are not that great. They were the best ever for Q1.

Swede was referring directly to Mac sales. He is right, those are way down. I think probably because the lineup hasn't been refreshed? Or maybe because the M1 and M2 chips are so powerful you really don't need to be upgrading every 2-3 years?

Easy RhinoSorry when I think "Mac" I think about all of their products.

Fair enough.

DavenIphone sales were actually a record high for the quarter so I’m not sure why you are saying they are not that great. They were the best ever for Q1.

Quarter maybe, but not for the past six months.

Easy RhinoSwede was referring directly to Mac sales. He is right, those are way down. I think probably because the lineup hasn't been refreshed? Or maybe because the M1 and M2 chips are so powerful you really don't need to be upgrading every 2-3 years?

More likely: M1s and M2s suck when running legacy non M optimized apps, and the Mac community LOVES them some old apps. There's still a market for PPC powered Macs today FFS.

So if you have older software that isnt ARM optimized, there is 0 reason to spend thousands on a new mac.

Easy RhinoHardly. Compare those numbers with the rest of tech and Apple is clearly doing much better. The fact they are buying back 90 billion in stock at this time when banks are failing is awesome.

Yes awesome for Apple & its shareholders, Tim Apple Cook must be laughing his way to the same banks :laugh:

TheLostSwedeIt appears that people don't wants Macs any more, or maybe Apple didn't make the product its customers want.

Every PC maker is complaining of a market slump, and for a brand that is far behind windows in term of market share, 7 billion of revenue is nothing to scoff at. And they still haven't replaced the aging Mac pro for their "HPC customers", unless you are into video editing, the base M2 doesn't bring much vs the M1...and it seems that people are just generally holding onto their hardware for longer.

To be honest, unless we have a disruptive event happening again, I have a hard time seeing consumer hardware sales significantly growing. While the HPC crowd is enjoying a growing need for cloud and A.I, average people also have to pay for the increased cost of chip manufacturing when their income are not necessarily the best right now.
Out of all people, Intel is the only one keeping the price steady, or lowering them on a new launch. :D Everyone else has been trying to see by how much they can raise the price.

dyonoctisEvery PC maker is complaining of a market slump, and for a brand that is far behind windows in term of market share, 7 billion of revenue is nothing to scoff at. And they still haven't replaced the aging Mac pro for their "HPC customers", unless you are into video editing, the base M2 doesn't bring much vs the M1...and it seems that people are just generally holding onto their hardware for longer.

To be honest, unless we have a disruptive event happening again, I have a hard time seeing consumer hardware sales significantly growing. While the HPC crowd is enjoying a growing need for cloud and A.I, average people also have to pay for the increased cost of chip manufacturing when their income are not necessarily the best right now.
Out of all people, Intel is the only one keeping the price steady, or lowering them on a new launch. :D Everyone else has been trying to see by how much they can raise the price.

computers just dont age the way they used to. A decade old PC is perfectly serviceable for everything except gaming and HPC work. If it wasnt for 11's silly requirements PC sales would be even lower.

Easy RhinoSwede was referring directly to Mac sales. He is right, those are way down. I think probably because the lineup hasn't been refreshed? Or maybe because the M1 and M2 chips are so powerful you really don't need to be upgrading every 2-3 years?

He said ‘phone sales were not that great’ in his comment. I am discussing that part.

Since consumers buy in cycles, most compare year ago quarters and not consecutive quarters. Apple made more on iphones between Jan and Mar than any other Jan to Mar quarter since the iphone was released. I’m not sure comparing the slow winter quarter with the back to school summer quarter and the holiday quarter is fair.

dyonoctisEvery PC maker is complaining of a market slump, and for a brand that is far behind windows in term of market share, 7 billion of revenue is nothing to scoff at. And they still haven't replaced the aging Mac pro for their "HPC customers", unless you are into video editing, the base M2 doesn't bring much vs the M1...and it seems that people are just generally holding onto their hardware for longer.

I don't think I scoffed at Apple's ability to make money, but rather the fact that it seems like they're not making the products its customers want.
At one point I was quite active in the hackintosh community and it only evolved because Apple weren't delivering the right products. That's about to go away soon and Apple keeps making toy computers, when what a large group of Apple users really want are work tools.
You're right though, it's becoming less and less of a reason for people to upgrade, as we've ended up with computers that handles all the tasks that your average computer user uses their computer for, without breaking a sweat, so why bother upgrading every 2-3 years, when your computer is powerful enough to do what you need it to do for five years?
A lot of people also bought computers in 2020, which will last another couple of years for most of them, regardless of what brand they bought, unless they had to buy whatever was offered, due to a shortage of what they actually wanted, so we might see some of those people upgrading later this year.

dyonoctisTo be honest, unless we have a disruptive event happening again, I have a hard time seeing consumer hardware sales significantly growing. While the HPC crowd is enjoying a growing need for cloud and A.I, average people also have to pay for the increased cost of chip manufacturing when their income are not necessarily the best right now.
Out of all people, Intel is the only one keeping the price steady, or lowering them on a new launch. :D Everyone else has been trying to see by how much they can raise the price.

Intel has not held the price steady, instead, the company keeps adding new tiers of products that it charges more for. However, Intel most likely knows very well what its customers are willing to pay and I'm not talking consumers here, but rather the companies in your list above. At some point, those customers are going to say no and Intel would rather maintain its volume, than give any of it to AMD, Apple or some Arm based competitor, even if it means a lower profit margin.

The humble PC has indeed stagnated, but so has smartphones, tablets and pretty much everything else. That's why we're seeing so many stupid as a service things now, as these companies want reoccuring revenue. I would not be surprised of we end up with some company launching "free" computers, that you have to pay a monthly fee to use beyond a set time limit or something silly like that, or you pay to use certain software on it. Yes, there's still improvements happening on the hardware side, but they're miniscule these days, as you pointed out and I can't see anything really disruptive on the horizon right now, at least not something that would make a real difference to how we use computers.

TheLostSwedeI don't think I scoffed at Apple's ability to make money, but rather the fact that it seems like they're not making the products its customers want.
At one point I was quite active in the hackintosh community and it only evolved because Apple weren't delivering the right products. That's about to go away soon and Apple keeps making toy computers, when what a large group of Apple users really want are work tools.
You're right though, it's becoming less and less of a reason for people to upgrade, as we've ended up with computers that handles all the tasks that your average computer user uses their computer for, without breaking a sweat, so why bother upgrading every 2-3 years, when your computer is powerful enough to do what you need it to do for five years?
A lot of people also bought computers in 2020, which will last another couple of years for most of them, regardless of what brand they bought, unless they had to buy whatever was offered, due to a shortage of what they actually wanted, so we might see some of those people upgrading later this year.

All I'm getting from Apple at the moment is that they made the choice to focus on media creation. Sure, the marketing briefly mentions STEM, but most people studying/working in that domain told me that the software that they need just can't run on them. I don't know what prospect they have on futur Apple silicon GPUs, but while they have a great media engine, more Vram available, the raw power is just not there. And nvidia has been pretty good at providing a 100% speed increase in gpu rendering for offline 3D each generation. some VFX studios are very loyal to macOS, but I don't know for how long. The exode of motion designers hasn't stopped with the mac studio. Professionals seems to get by just fine with the 3090.
How a Motion Designer Went from Mac to PC (schoolofmotion.com)
(a bit off -topic: in that article the author believe that Windows can't use the num pad unless you activate num lock from the virtual keyboard...when it's just really the num lock key of the Mx key who can be a bit cryptic for a Mac user. I can't believe that they weren't a single PC user in his social circle to show him how it works)