EastCoasthandle^^That's incorrect, the number of crashes on Vista was the result of driver itself not how many people used the video card. The number of people has no merit to the fact that the driver caused the problem.

Incorrect. If there are more people using the driver, then there will be more crashes. All the information provided gave us was the number of crashes.

Example: You take a survey. 25 people report crashes causes by nVidia drivers. 15 people reported crashes caused by ATi drivers. Who has better drivers?(I'll continue the example once you answer this question.)

eidairaman1yet you were trapped by SLI Claiming over 80% performance gain.

No I wasn't.

kylewQuick to call people a fanboy I see, you'll get called a fanboy yourself for disregarding the general consensus that ATi drivers are superior to NV's. Even the people who truly know what they are talking about see ATi drivers as being superior. But hey, you know better, because you like NV, they are in every way superior. :) :cool:

Based on the driver gains ATi managed to squeeze from the R600 cores, I find their drivers very impressive, and I'd say one of the reasons NV drives are "inferior" is because they're lazy on driver releases.

You can call me a fanboy all you want for disregarding that, because the people that truly know, the people that use both, will tell you neither is better than the other. Notice how I use both...I'm guessing you don't have an nVidia card in any of your computers, and probably never have. As for lazy driver releases, last I checked nVidia has been pushing out 2+ drivers a month, ATi is lucky to see monthly releases anymore.

hey guys lets get back on topic...
:D

newtekie, quit trying to filibuster Nvidia's drivers- your liable to be assassinated lol

defi - I find it interesting that full specs for the 4870x2 weren't leaked - which says to me that ATI is holding that back for the time being. Out of the 4000 series lineup, I think the most impressive will be the 4870x2.

I'm defi curious to find out whether it's being slapped with two RV770s, or if it'll be the first ATI card to stout to dual-core R700. If so, that would pose to be a key point of withoolding those clocks ATM.

Anyway we look at it, though, this series appears to be "bringin-it" back to nVidia. I'm really glad to see hardware between the two competing neck and neck again; it's better for all of us in the long run.



Either way, though - instead of snaggin a 3870x2 within the next couple of months, I might just keep on saving for the release of the 4870x2 instead.

Xazaxwww.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2286045,00.asp

www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2283081,00.asp

www.pcper.com/#NewsID-5540

Things are going to be interesting this Christmas..

Read these? Things will get insane in..

newtekie1Incorrect. If there are more people using the driver, then there will be more crashes. All the information provided gave us was the number of crashes.

Example: You take a survey. 25 people report crashes causes by nVidia drivers. 15 people reported crashes caused by ATi drivers. Who has better drivers?(I'll continue the example once you answer this question.)


....

That is not correct, you are replacing the fact that the issue happened with the number of people who used the driver. The fact remains that the issues happened therefore, the number of people using it is not relevant to that fact. It only shows how many people who did use it experienced the same problem not the fact that people used it as to create some sort of arbitrary percentage.

Exceededgoku^^ no you're incorrect, it's nearly impossible to find the real cause behind the matter. By your saying 1 person could have crashed a million times and that would be the reason... somehow I don't think so.....

The reason was already addressed in a few articles. Google it on your own time as this really is getting off topic to this thread.

seems the fanboys always try to change the subject of the topics, First it was Nvidia's 790i and now its this topic

KEEP THE FRAGGIN TOPIC ON TRACK!!!

eidairaman1seems the fanboys always try to change the subject of the topics, First it was Nvidia's 790i and now its this topic

KEEP THE FRAGGIN TOPIC ON TRACK!!!

You just talked about something off topic............

"seems the fanboys always try to change the subject of the topics, First it was Nvidia's 790i and now its this topic

KEEP THE FRAGGIN TOPIC ON TRACK!!!" <---- Thats off topic


NOTE: So did I posted something off topic too due to this post?

newtekie1Incorrect. If there are more people using the driver, then there will be more crashes. All the information provided gave us was the number of crashes.

Example: You take a survey. 25 people report crashes causes by nVidia drivers. 15 people reported crashes caused by ATi drivers. Who has better drivers?(I'll continue the example once you answer this question.)



No I wasn't.



You can call me a fanboy all you want for disregarding that, because the people that truly know, the people that use both, will tell you neither is better than the other. Notice how I use both...I'm guessing you don't have an nVidia card in any of your computers, and probably never have. As for lazy driver releases, last I checked nVidia has been pushing out 2+ drivers a month, ATi is lucky to see monthly releases anymore.

They actually do release drivers monthly, and I have had NV cards, and I've returned them, as they weren't what I wanted. I considered going 8800GTX SLi, but I saw NV support as being sub par, so I steered clear of them. The reason I find ATi drivers more impressive is how much performance they've gotten out of R600s, especially when it comes to AA, that "issue" seems to have pretty much gone, and they've managed all this without the hardware advantages NV had with their cards.

EastCoasthandleThat is not correct, you are replacing the fact that the issue happened with the number of people who used the driver. The fact remains that the issues happened therefore, the number of people using it is not relevant to that fact. It only shows how many people who did use it experienced the same problem not the fact that people used it as to create some sort of arbitrary percentage.

No, it is incorrect to say it is a fact that nVidia's drivers are worse based on the survey that says they cause more Vista crashes. You need the percentages of nVidia users that had crashes and the percentage of ATi users that had crashes before you can come to that conclusion. The percentage of Vista users, is not the correct information.

newtekie1No, it is incorrect to say it is a fact that nVidia's drivers are worse based on the survey that says they cause more Vista crashes. You need the percentages of nVidia users that had crashes and the percentage of ATi users that had crashes before you can come to that conclusion. The percentage of Vista users, is not the correct information.

This sounds like your having a debate at court. One person say its opinion. Someone says incorrect I disagree. Then another person says I disagree with you. Then another person says your totally wrong. Then another person comes in and says listen to me your all wrong and then a cop comes in and shoots them with a 0.1 sec short lasting 1 hit ko rocket launcher.

newtekie1No, it is incorrect to say it is a fact that nVidia's drivers are worse based on the survey that says they cause more Vista crashes. You need the percentages of nVidia users that had crashes and the percentage of ATi users that had crashes before you can come to that conclusion. The percentage of Vista users, is not the correct information.

What I addressed in your post:

...larger market share, which explains why it causes more Vista crashes...

which is wrong.

newtekie1You can call me a fanboy all you want for disregarding that, because the people that truly know, the people that use both, will tell you neither is better than the other. Notice how I use both...I'm guessing you don't have an nVidia card in any of your computers, and probably never have. As for lazy driver releases, last I checked nVidia has been pushing out 2+ drivers a month, ATi is lucky to see monthly releases anymore.

nVidia pushes out 2+ beta drivers a month. Usually they only have one alpha release a month. They're on par with ATI; only difference is that ATI doesn't release beta drivers left and right like nVidia does - instead, they rely heavily on feedback crews, and consumer feedback (us) for driver development. If there's an issue they're trying to resolve, we typically see either a hotfix or a beta release.

Now, if we start calling beta drivers as "official" driver releases - than yeah, I'll defi admit that nVidia releases more drivers than ATI does.



And saying that ATI is lucky to see monthly driver releases anymore is absolutely ridiculous - and you know that, man - ATI has been following the same 1 official driver release per month schedule since, what? 2004/2005? We all know round about when the next driver is rolling out, there's no guessing or hoping involved. If there was any evidence that ATI would start cutting back to quarterly or bi-monthly driver releases, we would've seen or heard evidence of that already.

I understand there's a debate going on, but in the heat of a debate one's comments can start coming across to be very fanboish - not calling you a fanboi, newtekie1, but IMO, that quote on the driver releases very much sounded that way.

EastCoasthandlewhich is wrong

EastCoasthandlewhich is wrong

EastCoasthandlewhich is wrong.

.

.

Which has 3 letters and 3 quotes in 1.

imperialreignnVidia pushes out 2+ beta drivers a month. Usually they only have one alpha release a month. They're on par with ATI; only difference is that ATI doesn't release beta drivers left and right like nVidia does - instead, they rely heavily on feedback crews, and consumer feedback (us) for driver development. If there's an issue they're trying to resolve, we typically see either a hotfix or a beta release.

Now, if we start calling beta drivers as "official" driver releases - than yeah, I'll defi admit that nVidia releases more drivers than ATI does.



And saying that ATI is lucky to see monthly driver releases anymore is absolutely ridiculous - and you know that, man - ATI has been following the same 1 official driver release per month schedule since, what? 2004/2005? We all know round about when the next driver is rolling out, there's no guessing or hoping involved. If there was any evidence that ATI would start cutting back to quarterly or bi-monthly driver releases, we would've seen or heard evidence of that already.

I understand there's a debate going on, but in the heat of a debate one's comments can start coming across to be very fanboish - not calling you a fanboi, newtekie1, but IMO, that quote on the driver releases very much sounded that way.

Yes, but it seems as of late, that the driver releases are coming later and later in the month. We are still seeing driver releases every month though.

As for beta driver releases, I don't care if it is beta or not, as long as it works. NVidia has come a long way in terms of keeping new drivers coming, they have come a long way from the early days of the 8800 series where they were screwing over their 7 series owners who didn't see even a beta release for months.

spearman914Which has 3 letters and 3 quotes in 1.

I am consistent :p but I think I said more then 3 letters :)

EastCoasthandleWhat I addressed in your post:

which is wrong.

No it isn't. It is well known fact that nVidia has a larger Vista market share than ATi, and in general a larger market share. The last report I saw shows nVidia having a 71% share over the descrete graphics card market(Q407 numbers).

Newtekie1, you aren't following your own posts any more. What you posted does not explain the crashes mentioned earlier nor does it follow up that you thought it did.

newtekie1Yes, but it seems as of late, that the driver releases are coming later and later in the month. We are still seeing driver releases every month though.

As for beta driver releases, I don't care if it is beta or not, as long as it works. NVidia has come a long way in terms of keeping new drivers coming, they have come a long way from the early days of the 8800 series where they were screwing over their 7 series owners who didn't see even a beta release for months.

exactly the point - but we can't say that nVidia is supporting better because they release more beta drivers. beta drivers are only a means for a company to get feedback from their crews and consumers, in an attempt to release better performing, more stable drivers; and overall a better product from hardware to software - most betas aren't even supported by most manufacturers because it's not considered an "official" release.

ATI just does things differently, and their drivers are quite stable and friendly without the need for numerous beta releases. Could their drivers be better if they did go the same route? Absolutely. I firmly believe that if ATI followed the same feedback method nVidia did, ATI drivers would perform much better than they do now, and we wouldn't run into the occasional hiccup like CAT 8.3 + Crossfire.


<edit>

not trying to drag this side of the debate out - just wanting to clarify so others don't get confused in the ongoing pandemoneum

EastCoasthandleNewtekie1, you aren't following your own posts any more. What you posted does not explain the crashes mentioned earlier nor does it follow up that you thought it did.

I'm not trying to explain the crashes. What I am trying to do is make people realize that you can not draw the conclusion that nVidia has worse drivers based solely on the fact that more Vista users had crashes caused by nVidia drivers.

imperialreignexactly the point - but we can't say that nVidia is supporting better because they release more beta drivers. beta drivers are only a means for a company to get feedback from their crews and consumers, in an attempt to release better performing, more stable drivers; and overall a better product from hardware to software - most betas aren't even supported by most manufacturers because it's not considered an "official" release.

ATI just does things differently, and their drivers are quite stable and friendly without the need for numerous beta releases. Could their drivers be better if they did go the same route? Absolutely. I firmly believe that if ATI followed the same feedback method nVidia did, ATI drivers would perform much better than they do now, and we wouldn't run into the occasional hiccup like CAT 8.3 + Crossfire.


<edit>

not trying to drag this side of the debate out - just wanting to clarify so others don't get confused in the ongoing pandemoneum

Exactly, I don't believe ATi's drivers are worse. Both have their problems, I just don't think nVidia's drivers are any worse than ATi's.

newtekie1I'm not trying to explain the crashes. What I am trying to do is make people realize that you can not draw the conclusion that nVidia has worse drivers based solely on the fact that more Vista users had crashes caused by nVidia drivers.

Actually you did try to explain the crashes (which is the post I original responded to) and you continued to do so in the last few posts. Not only does it not make sense it didn't relate to the fact that the issues were happening.

EastCoasthandleActually you did as I already quoting you saying so. Not only did it not make sense it didn't relate to the fact that the issues were happening.

That post litteraly makes no sense. I'm don't with your fanboy ass(yes you are a huge ATi fanboy, everyone here knows it). Your arguments are now making no sense at all, and you are just talking in circles. Welcome to my ignore list.

newtekie1Exactly, I don't believe ATi's drivers are worse. Both have their problems, I just don't think nVidia's drivers are any worse than ATi's.

s'all good :toast: I was just trying to clarify that earlier statement, cause it coulda been taken either way.

newtekie1That post litteraly makes no sense. I'm don't with your fanboy ass(yes you are a huge ATi fanboy, everyone here knows it). Your arguments are now making no sense at all, and you are just talking in circles. Welcome to my ignore list.

Your post is getting off topic. You have already called a few user(s) here fanboy(s) because they posted their opinions, reasonings, etc in this thread. I think that you've used that "card" enough in one thread. Although I have posted nothing in this thread saying that I am fan of either company, I did imply/say:

..you are replacing the fact that the issue happened with the number of people who used the driver. The fact remains that the issues happened therefore, the number of people using it is not relevant to that fact...

But it would be best that this debate conclude as name calling never enhances any opinion. :D

das müffin mannhey guys lets get back on topic...
:D

ill say it again