erockerHDMI would be nice.:ohwell:

ktrWhat would be nice is a 16x pci-e slot :pimp:

DarkMatterMost video cards are longer than that mobo, I think. At least any card that would be a real upgrade over that integrated 8200 anyway.

DarkMatterWell, you missed the point. Maybe you can put some cards there, but they would be very tall too. I said long just to not say big (because the area would not be bigger) and thought that the idea would be understood. I personally wouldn't want my small build to be as tall as its footprint. Anyway, I don't have one at hand but:

www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/VGA/HIS_HD4670_Turbo/pg2.htm

According to them the IceQ card is 188mm long, while this mobo is 170x170. Yes, the IceQ cooler exceeds the PCB, but how much? I would say the PCB is in fact 170mm long, so even if you could essentially put one there, it would be very difficult.

TBH I said long just to not say all the things that would not be OK with a "powerful" card in such a setup. Nevermind:

- Space: you need a place to put the slot and in a place that doesn't get in the way of the CPU cooler or other parts, etc. The mobo has to be bigger.
- Power. That moherboard can't feed a PCI-E card, I'm sure. The required circuitry to do so would make it even bigger.
- CPU, more power and size: to take advantage of a more powerful card you would require more powerful CPUs than the ones this mobo was probably designed for, and the CPU would require a bigger cooler. That if the mobo supports fast CPUs. I know it says it supports Phenom, but this looks like the kind of motherboard that claims support for all CPUs and more, and then has severe TDP limitations, which is normal after all.
- PSU, more power and size again: all of the above means a bigger PSU, that at the same time means higher power consumtion. That could not matter, but IMO size and price, yes. What would be the point of creating a small and cheap mobo that requires a normal PSU or very powerful and expensive small ones to run?

PinchyThe height of the card wont matter if you get a case that mounts the HDD's/optical drive straight on top of the CPU. Only thing you will need to worry about is that most ITX cases have half height brackets, but im sure you can do a little mod.

Stock CPU cooler wouldnt affect the PCIe card

If you put an AMD 4850e in there, there should be enough power to cover the PCIe slot. Ie, 4850e has a TDP of 45W, PCIe has a TDP of 75W; 120W combined. Less than the 125W TDP of certain phenoms.

A 4850e wont bottleneck an HD4670

The 4670 doesnt have an external power connector, so it doesnt use that much power. You can pick up 200W ITX PSU's for pretty cheap, so it shouldnt be too much of a problem.

Also as you said an HD4670 is around 17cm long, and looking at that picture, there is nothing in the way of a gfx card that goes all the way across the board.

EDIT - here is a case that should be good for it :): www.sunbeamtech.com/PRODUCTS/MINI-ITX/MINI-ITX.html

DarkMatterFirst of all that case seems big to me for a mini-itx PC. The fact that it supports micro-atx PSUs kind of confirm that to me. I took as granted that the whole point of these boards was to create even smaller builds with really low power consumption.

DarkMatter200w is not low enough, you have micro-itx for that.

DarkMatterSecond, I don't see where you see space in that board for a PCI-E slot, as there's no one, put one and it no longer will be mini-itx. It would make it more like a mini-dtx.

DarkMatterThird, as I said the fact that it supports Phenoms, does not mean that it supports higher-end higher TDP Phenoms. Probably it supports 95w Phenoms but no more. So there it goes your theory down the window. But's let's imagine it supports and can deliver 125W.

So finally, yeah those are some pretty numbers you posted. Thing is that both the 4850e and the HD4670 consume every bit of their TDP and we want to run our machine isn't it? Let's start by forgetting that common mini-itx PSUs deliver 110W, maybe up to 150w and only high-end ones deliver more, and take the 200w one you mentioned. Let's just not forget about efficiency because in these low power envelopes we will be moving in it does matter. A typical 80% efficiency puts our PSU at 160W maximum.

Ok so we have the CPU+GPU for 125w.
What about the chipset? And memory? Add 25w (at least) to your figure, thanks (125+25=150w). Want storage? Yeah, off course, one of those SSDs, they consume very little... Yeah, very little but realistically 5w (155w).
Are we really going to put that cards into such a small case with passive cooling? Taking into account the cooler can't be too big , obviously not. A pair of fans, one for the CPU, will suck around 5w (160w). <<-- We already broke the point of mini-itx versus micro-itx by using fans BTW.

We want a keyboard and mouse right, and want the USB devices in general to work when we plug them in so all that will probably take another 10W. So we surpassed those 160W to a point that would probably make our system unstable, but let's go back to reality: no way the mobo only consumes 25w, especially when we are using wi-fi.

DarkMatterWe already broke the point of mini-itx versus micro-itx by using fans BTW.

DarkMatterAll in all, yeah, we can fit a card by making it a little bit longer, we can use more powerful PSUs than the ones proposed for mini-itx and we can add a "fast" CPU by adding the required cooling. BUT you know what? You no longer are building a mini-itx PC and definately you don't want one. If at all you want one of the smallest micro-itx boards that could support better all those things at the expense of being more expensive, noisy and hungry.

PinchyI'm pretty sure those case dimensions and a 200W PSU is a lot smaller and less powerful than most mATX HTPC's. Your saying that they only make these boards for low powered extremely small systems...im sure its not illegal for people who want an HTPC smaller than a mATX or micro ITX to go mini-ITX.



So I am going to get a larger board because I want to use a larger power supply :wtf:

Where the PCIe 1x slot is?

You got some extremely pretty numbers there, all of which I would like to see accounted for with some proof.

www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_4670_IceQ_Turbo/24.html

Please tell me that a 4850e is going to use more power than an e8400 @ 3.6GHz under full load.

Oh, and that review doesnt even use an SSD.

I don't understand what your trying to get at here. Your saying we should stick to standards by not using fans and following guidelines. Your trying to tell me we can't use a fan in a computer system because it will break the rules of "mini-ITX"?

I don't know about you, but if I can fit a fan into my mini-ITX build I will put it there, even if it breaks the "point of the system".

Oh surely we are not allowed to use bigger PSU's than whats proposed. That might break the "point" of a mini-ITX board.

No offence mate, but you sound like your writing directly out of a textbook.

I mean, what if I want a computer that is just as powerful as my HTPC but smaller? I don't care about power consumption because I just want it to be smaller. Are you saying I shouldn't do this because it will break the point of a mini-ITX setup? Your telling me I should just suck it up and go micro-ITX/mATX because my power supply is above 100w?

Musselsanother nice ITX board. now we just need ITX cases available at a decent price.