newtekie1Prolong the life of the card from what? Regular caps last long enough already, why do you think there are cards that are 10 years old still in use today? Besides that, the RV730 doesn't pull enough power to even come close to the limits of regular caps. Solid caps are useful on high end cards that are sucking down 200w, but on a sub-75w card like the HD4670, they provide nothing.

And the AGP bridge is already going to drive the price of this card up way beyond what it is worth, and even a small cost increase to the manufacturer can equal $5-10 to the consumer. Thats $5-10 extra for nothing. If you still have AGP 10+ years from now when the difference between solid caps and regular caps become appearent, I pitty you...

youre so worried about being right i pity you, if i want solid caps, thats me if you dont good for you, give yourself a clap, but just to teach you a bit capictor aging makes hardware less efficient, voltage has a minor effect compared to temps, now if you live here with temps near 40 celsuis your pc ill need those caps, if you want it to work as efficiently you need those caps, and as i said if i need something price doesnt bother me as long as i get what i want, in these case solid caps, and hell yeah ill have agp for a long time:toast:

W1zzardumm no way .. have you ever been to a show as press? its hard to even get a few minutes with the cards alone to take pictures

Then need to change name from W1zzard to Apprentice W1zzard. :laugh: You need to ask/demand for information, spec sheets and more info. After all, you are a VIP there. Make sure the vendors deliver info that you want... that is the purpose of the PR event... that's their job, as product/company reps, to tout the products to people just like you.

Anyway, I'm sure you are getting bored of taking techie pictures... BUT WE ARE WAITING for the Taipei girls thread. Where is it? ;)

enaheryoure so worried about being right i pity you, if i want solid caps, thats me if you dont good for you, give yourself a clap, but just to teach you a bit capictor aging makes hardware less efficient, voltage has a minor effect compared to temps, now if you live here with temps near 40 celsuis your pc ill need those caps, if you want it to work as efficiently you need those caps, and as i said if i need something price doesnt bother me as long as i get what i want, in these case solid caps, and hell yeah ill have agp for a long time:toast:

It doesn't matter where you live, you don't need solid caps on a card like the HD4670. Temps and Cap aging will not affect normal caps in the usable lifetime of the card, it just won't happen, regardless of operating conditions(excluding extreme situations obviously, and 40°C is hardly an extreme situation). Adding solid caps to mid-range cards will do nothing.

I can't stress this enough, you do not need solid caps, if you did how did any hardware mange to survive this long before solid caps became mainstream?

newtekie1It doesn't matter where you live, you don't need solid caps on a card like the HD4670. Temps and Cap aging will not affect normal caps in the usable lifetime of the card, it just won't happen, regardless of operating conditions(excluding extreme situations obviously, and 40°C is hardly an extreme situation). Adding solid caps to mid-range cards will do nothing.

I can't stress this enough, you do not need solid caps, if you did how did any hardware mange to survive this long before solid caps became mainstream?

You know im just tired, you just want to be right, you think you know to much, try and use a that card here at 1200 Hours here, and youd understand thats right you can't and 40°C not extreme?, its funny coming from Someone from Indiana whats your highest temp 30°C?, Americans from Austin, New Mexico actually get dihydrated and there from the hotter parts of the states, you dont understand how 40°C and Tropical Humidity act on the human Body average body temp is 37.5 @ 41.5°C its already hiperpyrexia, as i remarked if you dont need them good for you, i do.

You should try to humble yourself you think to high and mighty of yourself.

err.........wont these card will be bottleneck if the agp board thats still using P4(pentium 4) system???

AGP... when will it die?!

The cards wouldn't be a bottleneck, the CPU would be - depending on the rest of the system specification.

hatAGP... when will it die?!

When it's completely obsolete - just goes to show you [all] that AGP isn't completely shit compared to PCIe. Like Mickey Rourke in the Wrestler - he may be ugly but he's still fightin'!

It is when considering the availability of it. There are no AGP 4890s or GTX260s

Well of course not, but for those that don't see any need to go to massively high-end cards, but would like a fair bit of a performance increase over PCI without having to replace every other component in their system just to accommodate a high-end GFX card.

There IS a market for this, for people that want to have a faster GPU, lower power, quieter, and WITHOUT having to buy a new computer or build a new rig from scratch INCL purchasing a new copy of Windows, since most peeps copies are OEM and cannot be transferred to a totally new rig.

I bet there are a lot of "hand-me-down" computers from parents to kids. A $50 up to date GPU would make that gift so much more useful.

AND there are the occasional owners of Core 2/Quad AGP rigs. Clearly, this GPU would be a perfect match.

There is no doubt in my mind that there is a market for this, I'm just not sure of how big that market is...

IMO, AGP users that want good graphics cards are few and far between. Most current AGP users probably don't care about boosting their graphic performance, if they did they would have probably moved on from AGP a while ago.

But what really concerns me is drivers, last I heard the drivers for the AGP 3850's were complete shit, will this HD4670 be a repeat of that?

Though if I was an AGP user, I think I would stop spending money on tiny upgrades, and just putting that money towards new modern hardware.

I do agree with you; the market is probably pretty thin. Most people on AGP probably have rubbish CPUs and a 3850/4670 would be lost on them. Most enthusiasts have moved on or are in the process of doing so.

However that perspective is driven by "US/European economics". If we talk about Eastern Europe, Russia, China, South America, the situation may be different. I'm not aware of what demand might exist there. Perhaps more? But only if the price is right.

I think some 1st World AGP systems might have survived longer if the 3850/3870 had been out sooner and cheaper. Likewise with the 4830. That would have been a perfect AGP release on launch.

Clearly 4670/4770/4830 is the end of the road for AGP. Let's hope it goes out with a bang! I hope they do release a 4770 in the very near future. I would buy a couple for the "office" machines.

newtekie1Though if I was an AGP user, I think I would stop spending money on tiny upgrades, and just putting that money towards new modern hardware.

Can't argue with that. I think it therefore falls into the product category for "second machines", upgrades for office machines driving multiple monitors, or 2nd world nations.

There's a big market not huge but if your the only one providing a product its still good, a friend working in taiwan actually told me that the x1950pro and HD3850 AGP are very popular in taiwan and china most people play MMO's don't really care about hardware, WOW is the main interest there and a p4 should work, and in latin america we usually don't get the latest hardware, most of my freinds still run Athlons 64 and P4 based machines with agp and most own 6600gt, 7800gs and x1950pro and spending 100$ for a quick upgrade doesn't seem so bad, then there are people like me to lazy to swap the familiy pc and rather get the new agp card:laugh:

AGP still a live

enaherYou know im just tired, you just want to be right, you think you know to much, try and use a that card here at 1200 Hours here, and youd understand thats right you can't and 40°C not extreme?, its funny coming from Someone from Indiana whats your highest temp 30°C?, Americans from Austin, New Mexico actually get dihydrated and there from the hotter parts of the states, you dont understand how 40°C and Tropical Humidity act on the human Body average body temp is 37.5 @ 41.5°C its already hiperpyrexia, as i remarked if you dont need them good for you, i do.

You should try to humble yourself you think to high and mighty of yourself.

You really are ignorant aren't you. You honestly believe it never breaks 100°F in Indiana? Wow...

And what does dehydration and the human body have to do with anything, people die of dehydration and heat stroke every year in Chicago.

Now, as for how 40°C and Tropical Climates affect computer parts, I'm far more aware than you are obviously. And just because I live in Indiana now doesn't mean I've always lived in Indiana...

Again I ask you, if tropical climate with high temperates requires solid caps, how did we ever get along before they were available? Why don't we hear of people in tropical climates having blown caps on their older hardware all the time? I'll tell you why. Its because normal caps, when used in proper applications and not overloaded, are perfectly fine and using solid caps in their place for no other reason than to have solid caps "because they are better" is pointless.

In fact, I would bet that the AGP motherboard you're thinking about putting this card in probably doesn't even have solid caps.:laugh:

all hail newtekkie! :respect: :roll:

i still don't think that the full bus width of AGP is being saturated, manufacturer's and software (micro$haft) companies just wanted to make something new to get into the mainstream's pocket's ;)

that being said i'm itchin' to build a new rig :cool:

:toast:

newtekie1You really are ignorant aren't you. You honestly believe it never breaks 100°F in Indiana? Wow...

And what does dehydration and the human body have to do with anything, people die of dehydration and heat stroke every year in Chicago.
Now, as for how 40°C and Tropical Climates affect computer parts, I'm far more aware than you are obviously. And just because I live in Indiana now doesn't mean I've always lived in Indiana...

Again I ask you, if tropical climate with high temperates requires solid caps, how did we ever get along before they were available? Why don't we hear of people in tropical climates having blown caps on their older hardware all the time? I'll tell you why. Its because normal caps, when used in proper applications and not overloaded, are perfectly fine and using solid caps in their place for no other reason than to have solid caps "because they are better" is pointless.

In fact, I would bet that the AGP motherboard you're thinking about putting this card in probably doesn't even have solid caps.:laugh:

Yes, you do but not on regular basis do you? you have 4 stations, we have 2 summer and rain season thats 6 month of heat our summer average is 40°C so that means it gets hotter and remember that little thing called global warming might be a rumor to you but its very real here, the closer to the ecuator the worst it gets Honduras went from Average 34°C in 2000 to 40°C in 2008 and its gonna get worst.

Yes you don't understand tropical humidity effects, but id have to give you physics and physiology lessons for you to get it.

Another thing you actually think im gonna use my pc for standard application, most people don't overclock or overvolt, so most people don't need them as i've said like four times, i do, nope my asrock not full solid caps if i could get one with them i would :D

enaherYes, you do but not on regular basis do you? you have 4 stations, we have 2 summer and rain season thats 6 month of heat our summer average is 40°C so that means it gets hotter and remember that little thing called global warming might be a rumor to you but its very real here, the closer to the ecuator the worst it gets Honduras went from Average 34°C in 2000 to 40°C in 2008 and its gonna get worst.

Yes you don't understand tropical humidity effects, but id have to give you physics and physiology lessons for you to get it.

Another thing you actually think im gonna use my pc for standard application, most people don't overclock or overvolt, so most people don't need them as i've said like four times, i do, nope my asrock not full solid caps if i could get one with them i would :D

Not regular, but you never said regular basis. You just said Indiana never sees 40°C, which isn't accurate at all.

I understand tropical humidity perfectly, again I haven't spend my whole life in Indiana.

And why would I assume anyone on this site uses their computer for standard applications. You don't need solid caps to overclock, you don't need them in tropical climates, and you don't need them in any combination of the two.

I find it funny how you can't seem to address my simple questions. How has all the hardware that has come out before solid caps were mainstream ever manage to survive this long if solid caps are needed?

How has your motherboard not fried? And why are you worried about this card having solid caps, if your motherboard doesn't have them? The things you worry about happening to the caps on this card are going to happen to the, I assume, older motherboard caps first. So your motherboard won't even last as long as the cards. By your logic, your motherboard is going to die in the next year or so, so the AGP card will outlive it. And when the board dies, that would probably be a good time to move to PCI-E.

And what ASRock board do you have, because AFAIK, there aren't any AGP ASRock boards with any solid caps...

intel igenti still don't think that the full bus width of AGP is being saturated, manufacturer's and software (micro$haft) companies just wanted to make something new to get into the mainstream's pocket's ;)

If that was true, the higher end cards wouldn't show a performance hit when put in a PCI-E x8 slot. Of course higher end cards do show a performance hit in PCI-E x8 slots, so...

Enaher, I've been to India twice, at the local internet cafe they had computers that were 10+ years old 5 years ago.

They work fine.

Newtekie is right, unless you have some really over the top super card that's at 100% load 100% of the time, the caps will last for more then enough time.

enaherYou know im just tired, you just want to be right, you think you know to much, try and use a that card here at 1200 Hours here, and youd understand thats right you can't and 40°C not extreme?, its funny coming from Someone from Indiana whats your highest temp 30°C?, Americans from Austin, New Mexico actually get dihydrated and there from the hotter parts of the states, you dont understand how 40°C and Tropical Humidity act on the human Body average body temp is 37.5 @ 41.5°C its already hiperpyrexia, as i remarked if you dont need them good for you, i do.

You should try to humble yourself you think to high and mighty of yourself.

i live just outside of houston you don't need all solid caps hell i ran a K7S5A-pro with explodie caps just fine at stock for 4 years the IDE on the board died not the caps that were well well known to blow.

hell we pulled apart some of the computer based mills at NASA and the had all liquid based caps not a single was blown....those machines are older than i am

newtekie1Not regular, but you never said regular basis. You just said Indiana never sees 40°C, which isn't accurate at all.

I understand tropical humidity perfectly, again I haven't spend my whole life in Indiana. Don't be so full of yourself, and don't assume everyone else lives some sheltered life.

And why would I assume anyone on this site uses their computer for standard applications. You don't need solid caps to overclock, you don't need them in tropical climates, and you don't need them in any combination of the two.

I find it funny how you can't seem to address my simple questions. How has all the hardware that has come out before solid caps were mainstream ever manage to survive this long if solid caps are needed?

How has your motherboard not fried? And why are you worried about this card having solid caps, if your motherboard doesn't have them? The things you worry about happening to the caps on this card are going to happen to the, I assume, older motherboard caps first. So your motherboard won't even last as long as the cards. By your logic, your motherboard is going to die in the next year or so, so the AGP card will outlive it. And when the board dies, that would probably be a good time to move to PCI-E.

And what ASRock board do you have, because AFAIK, there aren't any AGP ASRock boards with any solid caps...

Again you started this crap, i want solid caps that should be enough, you don't know what i do with my pc or the condition it's in and many other details, yet you think you can tell me what i need? and your accusing me of being full of myself?, as i said you or everyone else might not need them thats ok i don;t care, but i do want my solid caps, i like to reduce risk as much as i can, and thats what solid caps are, a failure reduction component, so they raise price i don't care, but they're mainstream for a reason now.

And the answer to your BIG question: yes hardware survives without solid caps, but it's fail rate is higher, now lets imagine you have to take any comunication device to a jungle/mountain/cave, mmm... you've got two choices one without solid caps with a fail rate of 2%, and one with solid caps and a fail rate of 1% i'd take the solid caps 1% is a small risk, that i wouldn't take even if you screamed in my ear how unnecesary that is...

Want another example: in a OC contest what Mobo would you take if there the same Brand/Model the only difference would be solid caps? with or without?

You know Solid Caps were developed to reduce the hardware failure rate

Nope, my 4CoreDual Sata2 has No SC. your right

BTW, im not gonna answer this crap any more, I really think your to hard headed.

BOSEPeople still use AGP?

Yes, but I don't want to, can't afford a PCIe card :rolleyes:

enaherAgain you started this crap, i want solid caps that should be enough, you don't know what i do with my pc or the condition it's in and many other details, yet you think you can tell me what i need? and your accusing me of being full of myself?, as i said you or everyone else might not need them thats ok i don;t care, but i do want my solid caps, i like to reduce risk as much as i can, and thats what solid caps are, a failure reduction component, so they raise price i don't care, but they're mainstream for a reason now.

And the answer to your BIG question: yes hardware survives without solid caps, but it's fail rate is higher, now lets imagine you have to take any comunication device to a jungle/mountain/cave, mmm... you've got two choices one without solid caps with a fail rate of 2%, and one with solid caps and a fail rate of 1% i'd take the solid caps 1% is a small risk, that i wouldn't take even if you screamed in my ear how unnecesary that is...

Want another example: in a OC contest what Mobo would you take if there the same Brand/Model the only difference would be solid caps? with or without?

You know Solid Caps were developed to reduce the hardware failure rate

Nope, my 4CoreDual Sata2 has No SC. your right

BTW, im not gonna answer this crap any more, I really think your to hard headed.

actually at the same rating the caps should last the same under the conditions they are rated for. high quality liquid caps have proven to be as good as high quality solid caps. now if you guy snag some crappy liquid caps that don't really meet the specs written on them more power to you as they will pop. however a good cap is a good cap solid or liquid.

cdawallactually at the same rating the caps should last the same under the conditions they are rated for. high quality liquid caps have proven to be as good as high quality solid caps. now if you guy snag some crappy liquid caps that don't really meet the specs written on them more power to you as they will pop. however a good cap is a good cap solid or liquid.

Yep thats true but, you know they always skimp on the quality polystyrene capacitors, or even go as far as covering the cheap caps with aluminium barrels so they look like solid caps, but i think its mainly for the price and size of polystyrene and polycarbonate capacitors.

enaherAgain you started this crap, i want solid caps that should be enough, you don't know what i do with my pc or the condition it's in and many other details, yet you think you can tell me what i need? and your accusing me of being full of myself?, as i said you or everyone else might not need them thats ok i don;t care, but i do want my solid caps, i like to reduce risk as much as i can, and thats what solid caps are, a failure reduction component, so they raise price i don't care, but they're mainstream for a reason now.

And the answer to your BIG question: yes hardware survives without solid caps, but it's fail rate is higher, now lets imagine you have to take any comunication device to a jungle/mountain/cave, mmm... you've got two choices one without solid caps with a fail rate of 2%, and one with solid caps and a fail rate of 1% i'd take the solid caps 1% is a small risk, that i wouldn't take even if you screamed in my ear how unnecesary that is...

Want another example: in a OC contest what Mobo would you take if there the same Brand/Model the only difference would be solid caps? with or without?

You know Solid Caps were developed to reduce the hardware failure rate

Nope, my 4CoreDual Sata2 has No SC. your right

BTW, im not gonna answer this crap any more, I really think your to hard headed.

Your examples do not apply here, there is nothing you can do with this card that would require solid caps. You aren't going to be entering it in any overclocking contests, you aren't going to be taking it to the jungle/mountain/cave. So none of that applies. You can't give me a single valid reason why solid caps on this card would be necessary, or even benefitial.

And you seem to have gone completely off track and are trying to turn this discussion into a simply Solid Cap vs. Normal Cap debate. I'm not saying there aren't applications that benefit from Solid Caps, and even applications where I would make sure Solid Caps were used. However, I'm saying in this single application on an AGP HD4670, there will be no benefit to solid caps.

And you are only partially correct in saying that solid caps were developed to reduce failure rates. They were developed to reduce failure rates under high load situations, as they can take more abuse than liquad caps. However, that doesn't help one bit with this card, I highly doubt anyone will be overvolting the card, so the normal caps will be just fine, and even if you do overvolt the card unless you are pumping some serious juice through it, the normal caps will be just fine. And if you push the voltage far enough that the normal caps become the limitting factor, you better have some damn good cooling because you will probably fry the core first. And really, if you can afford the cooler to do it, you should have something better than an AGP machine at this point.:laugh:

And remember, you started this, I responded to your comment.

enaherYep thats true but, you know they always skimp on the quality polystyrene capacitors, or even go as far as covering the cheap caps with aluminium barrels so they look like solid caps, but i think its mainly for the price and size of polystyrene and polycarbonate capacitors.

That again doesn't apply here. If they use high quality caps, it won't be an issue. A budget card maker might use cheap caps, but I doubt someone like PowerColor will. And again, you are going off track and talking about normal caps as a whole. I highly doubt they are slipping aluminum barrels over caps this small to pass them off as higher rated caps. And you also seem to forget that solid caps are not immune from poor quality and improper ratings... I'd take a good quality normal cap over a poor quality solid cap any day.