NVIDIA GeForce 4XX Series Discussion

[cadaveca]

Not like that is a bad thing...SLi is needed for the horsepower to push Surround S3D @ decent FPS anyway.

The Fermi name is quite appropriate...

@ Fermi lab, they take to particle, smash them together, and see what's comes out of the collision. nV have done the same thing this gen, smashing together both 3D and GPGPU...

Fermi does everything. The collision hasn't fully happened yet, so all features from all sides are there, but I wonder what parts they will keep active after the collision is over.

I cannot help but be excited...nV'd tri-mon solution will push ATi to bring better, but the only way they can do that is drivers and performance.

 

[KainXS]

except that nvidia ARE ripping off eyefinity although, that was expected.

its not a ripoff of eye effinity all it is is taking 3 high end monitors and enabing each to use 3dvision, its more like a update to the old 3dvision

nvidia had to do something to counter it, but could be more expensive and still requires the newer 3dvision glasses

 

[phanbuey]

3d is just awesome... if ATI can make a decent 3d kit, with support for tons of games, I would be all over that.

 

[HalfAHertz]

Why wait? Nvidia already has a decent 3d kit, albeit expensive...

 

[cadaveca]

Costs just as much as a high-end card...and I think that's highly intentional. I mean really...when 5870 can play basically any game @ 1920x1080 and 4xAA, why would you need to buy a second card? nV and ATi both rely on multi-gpu configs for sales, even if it's just a small amount of sales.

So if one card can play any game, how do they sell you that second card? The added features, of course.

Also, to me, when 3 cards were ideal until 5870/Fermi gen, they gotta recoup that third card. Oh, what's that? S3D hardware costs the same as that third card? You don't say....

I'm quite impressed, to be honest. If they hadn't done S3D multi-mon, I'd have been very disappointed...I've been talking about S3D here in this thread for some time now, haven't I?

 

[phanbuey]

Yeah but 3d is very driver sensitive and can have a massive performance hit. So it will come down to drivers to see who has the best, and best looking 3d.

Ive seen it live, and its totally worth it. Some peeps spend $$$ on watercooling and all that, but when you see the difference 3d makes for immersion, it makes it a completely logical buy... I was gonna get an SSD next, but hell... now I want the 120Hz 3d orange 24" Acer monitor to match the orange case and some specs.

But you have a point. If nv wants to push 3d, they have to make it available to the masses. Not $199 for glasses lol. After that, it will take off like a jet, since those effects are simply awesome... Whats prettier than crysis? CRYSIS 3D!!!

Its like the difference of watching avatar in Dobly D3D or plain. One is Pocahontas with blue people and the other is awesome.

 

[cadaveca]

Very true on the point about drivers. I can only hope that they devote the resources neccesary to see it perform well....3x 1920x1080 @ 120FPS 3D Surround completely eclipses anything ATi has brought to the table. However, if ATi brings better multi-mon drivers, it won`t matter that nv has S3D..as you said, $200 for some polarizing glasses is kind of a high cost for a small device, but knowing that $200 for polarizing lenses is actually a very good cost in comparison to normal eye-glass costs, I don`t mind at all...cost about the same as contacts.

Perspective is key...expecting the moon, sun, and stars, for next-to-no cost....just doesn`t compute in my brain.

 

[erocker]

According to some article at VR-Zone, it doesn't work very well either. I can't afford three 120hz monitors anyways I guess.

 

[cadaveca]

The fact that they can even show it as working bodes well, as neither Eyefinity or Surround S3D are mature features, now are they? But it's so close...so very close...the hardware is there, they jsut need to get some financial support for these products so that they have o choice but to further iterate on these technologies.

Given that movies are now being shown widespread in 3D, I can't help but think that the next true gen of consoles will go this route as well...if it wasn't for the power requirements of current chips...

 

[erocker]

The fact that they can even show it as working bodes well, as neither Eyefinity or Surround S3D are mature features, now are they? But it's so close...so very close...the hardware is there, they jsut need to get some financial support for these products so that they have o choice but to further iterate on these technologies.

Given that movies are now being shown widespread in 3D, I can't help but think that the next true gen of consoles will go this route as well...if it wasn't for the power requirements of current chips...

Idk. They showed it barely working. The requirements are currently too steep for it. I was hoping Nvidia would come up with something original. It's just too damn expensive for a common consumer to use. More than anything it's nothing more than a gimmick to counter what the other brand has already done.

Anyways, do we have any word on an actual release date?

 

[HalfAHertz]

Very true on the point about drivers. I can only hope that they devote the resources neccesary to see it perform well....3x 1920x1080 @ 120FPS 3D Surround completely eclipses anything ATi has brought to the table. However, if ATi brings better multi-mon drivers, it won`t matter that nv has S3D..as you said, $200 for some polarizing glasses is kind of a high cost for a small device, but knowing that $200 for polarizing lenses is actually a very good cost in comparison to normal eye-glass costs, I don`t mind at all...cost about the same as contacts.

Perspective is key...expecting the moon, sun, and stars, for next-to-no cost....just doesn`t compute in my brain.

You don't need 120fps, just 30 at 120Hz

 

[cadaveca]

Idk. They showed it barely working. The requirements are currently too steep for it. I was hoping Nvidia would come up with something original. It's just too damn expensive for a common consumer to use. More than anything it's nothing more than a gimmick to counter what the other brand has already done.

Anyways, do we have any word on an actual release date?

Not that I'm aware of. Given how Jen Hsun has been acting lately, I'm thinking mid-march for paper launch with full details, and widespread availability by the end of april. It seems they are talking to developers to see what it is they are going to need for grunt for the next 18 months, and using that data for target clocks, final specs, etc.

You don't need 120fps, just 30 at 120Hz

120HZ=120FPS. Hertz =

The hertz (symbol: Hz) is a unit of frequency. It is defined as the number of complete cycles per second.[1] It is the basic unit of frequency in the International System of Units (SI), and is used worldwide in both general-purpose and scientific contexts. Hertz can be used to measure any periodic event; the most common uses for hertz are to describe radio and audio frequencies, more or less sinusoidal contexts in which case a frequency of 1 Hz is equal to one cycle per second.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertz

30FPS= 30HZ.

Personally, it's 120hz, or nothing. I cannot play @ 30FPS, or just 60FPS...quick changes in FOV give me headaches/motion-sickness with less than about 70-80 or so, at least with my current monitors/HDTV. It's this same thing that has S3D not working on 120HZ HDTV panels, which are usually much less FPS, with a scaler interpolating the frame data to "simulate" 120FPS(Hz).

 

[Mussels]

cadaveca: you've misinterpreted.

120Hz does not mean 120FPS. it means 120FPS maximum.

 

[eidairaman1]

thats true, tweakguides has data on the Refresh Rates.

 

[qubit]

Nvidia works on second generation Fermi

If all goes well, the second generation Fermi architecture should be coming in late 2010. Since Fermi is Nvidia’s big transition that got delayed, it looks like Nvidia plans to have two new major generations in a single year. Traditionally the new chip comes in one year and roughly 12 months after the company is ready to launch faster version of the same chip, with more muscle.

Says Fudzilla.

 

[20mmrain]

If all goes well, the second generation Fermi architecture should be coming in late 2010. Since Fermi is Nvidia’s big transition that got delayed, it looks like Nvidia plans to have two new major generations in a single year. Traditionally the new chip comes in one year and roughly 12 months after the company is ready to launch faster version of the same chip, with more muscle.

I think that is only in response to the fact that ATI confirmed the same thing earlier.

ATI’s New-Generation Graphics Processors on Track for the Second Half of 2010 – AMD’s CEO.
ATI Looking Forward to Refresh Entire Graphics Lineup in the Second Half of 2010
[01/21/2010 11:33 PM]
by Anton Shilov
Chief executive officer of Advanced Micro Devices said during a conference call with financial analysts that the company’s graphics division ATI was on-track to refresh its lineup of graphics cards in the second half of calendar 2010. The mystery, though, is with what the family of graphics processors will be renewed.

“We are ramping the ATI Radeon HD 5000 series now and look forward to refreshing the entire lineup in the second half of next year*,” said Dirk Meyer, chief executive officer of AMD, during quarterly conference call with financial analysts.

A little earlier this month AMD’s worldwide developer relations manager said that ATI hopes to maintain leadership position in terms of product performance “for the majority of 2010”. Still, it is not completely clear with what does AMD plan to refresh ATI’s lineup going forward.

The company has two ways of getting even faster products to market: it can redesign existing ATI Radeon HD 5000-series graphics chips so that to boost clock-speeds tangibly or it can introduce a brand new family of ninth-generation Radeon chips code-named Northern Islands, which is widely believed to feature a new architecture.

Not a lot is known about Northern Islands. Some sources claim that the new chips will be made using 32nm fabrication process, but the others believe that the new chips will be made on 28nm node. There are also reports that Northern Islands will have richer feature-set compared to Evergreen. According to some other reports, ATI’s next-generation family is code-named Hecatonchires and will feature code-named Cozumel, Ibiza and Kauai chips, which are not northern, but southern islands. As a result, it is possible that ATI may be working on two new architectures.

Earlier this week TSMC said that it would start mass production of chips using 28nm process technology in Q4 2010.

* Considering the fact that the call was dedicated to AMD’s financial results in the Q4 of fiscal 2009, the AMD executive referred to the second half of fiscal 2010 as to the “next year”, which is basically the second half of calendar 2010.

 

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

exciting year ....

 

[Benetanegia]

I think that is only in response to the fact that ATI confirmed the same thing earlier.

And both are lying probably.

 

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

who's least likely to be lying?

 

[Marineborn]

yep thats why you always have the option to turn vysnc off so YOUR framrates can go CRAZA!~!!

 

[Benetanegia]

who's least likely to be lying?

It depends on what do you think they are trying to say. If AMD is talking about just a refresh of Evergreen with higher clocks and 7 GB/s GDDR5, then AMD. But a new architecture is unlikely. At 40nm anything that supposes a significant increase in performance will mean a significant bigger chip. This is true for both AMD and Nvidia.

If we are talking about something more relevant being changed in the architecture, then Nvidia is more likely to be doing it. Maybe a cut down Fermi a la G92, with 256 bit instead of 384 thanks to the 7 GB/s memory, the same number of clusters and increased frequency.

 

[Mussels]

yep thats why you always have the option to turn vysnc off so YOUR framrates can go CRAZA!~!!

but still capped at the same as your monitors refresh rate.

as an example: if you open and close your eyes 5 times rapidly, you still only see 5 images, regardless of how many were displayed in that period of time.

 

[[I.R.A]_FBi]

It depends on what do you think they are trying to say. If AMD is talking about just a refresh of Evergreen with higher clocks and 7 GB/s GDDR5, then AMD. But a new architecture is unlikely. At 40nm anything that supposes a significant increase in performance will mean a significant bigger chip. This is true for both AMD and Nvidia.

If we are talking about something more relevant being changed in the architecture, then Nvidia is more likely to be doing it. Maybe a cut down Fermi a la G92, with 256 bit instead of 384 thanks to the 7 GB/s memory, the same number of clusters and increased frequency.

When is this 7 GB/s mem due for relelase to mfgrs? Evergreen refresh would be sumpn like 4890?

heres the full news article re ati

http://techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113711

 

[Marineborn]

but still capped at the same as your monitors refresh rate.

as an example: if you open and close your eyes 5 times rapidly, you still only see 5 images, regardless of how many were displayed in that period of time.

yeah i know i was just adding that i wanted to feel special, lol

 

[20mmrain]

who's least likely to be lying?

Who is lying.... well I guess both could be lying. Both could be tring to prempt each other. But if I had to go with recent history. I would say Nvidia is probably more likely to be lying.

With the new release of Femi very shortly. Also with how long it is taking them to release it.... I would say the odds of us seeing any refresh from them this year would be highly unlikely!

But at the same time ATI might also be just finally feeling the nervousnous from the release of femi shortly. And they could be just saying this to say "don't worry we have something coming too.... Look at us!"

But like I said I lean towards more of my first thought then the second. Not only that GF did show off a 28nm waffer quite recently. That was proclaimed not to be a CPU chip. They didn't say what it was but it is speculated to be for AMD/ATI.

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/01/09/global-foundries-28nm-wafer-spotted/

I know it is semi accurate but it's still a rumor out there.