Mantle API presentation by AMD, DICE and Oxide - AMD Summit 2013

[TheMailMan78]

lol typical nv fan

And you completely missed the point.


Mantle can bring so much more then just fps boost, now we're limited to ~ 10000-15000 draw calls, you see what worlds, characters, animations, physics we get.. Mediocre most of the time.. Now look at the same world enhanced with extra detail that is now limited to 30000 or even 90000 calls @ same fps. CGI gfx detail..

Its up to nvidia now to make a proper mantle driver, ps GCN is very similar to Nv fermi+ gpus so there shouldn't be any real issues.

You're relatively new so Ill let that go.

 

[broken pixel]

Mantle does have an on/ off menu button.

To Mantle or not to Mantle.

 

[RoutedScripter]

I told everyone the first patch is not going to be the last one, and they said exactly that more mantle optimizations are coming. And I said exactly that there will be people jumping to conclusions if the first patch won't be like the top number AMD PR talked about.

Next, we all know nobody expected existing FPS games to gain that much as it was talked about in "what will be possible" in the first round of patches.

Also, I was never talking about multiplayer benefits, because that's all connected to netcode and we all know whow crappy Frostbite's netcode is compared to idTech.

That's said, Mantle isn't just performance as they see from their ignorant state, it makes the framerate more smooth, and a huge benefit in stability, being able to polish the game really good.

 

[MxPhenom 216]

Mantle is AMD exclusive and will only be supported by developers that are willing to use it. Where as DirectX and OpenGL are available to everyone. Mantle is cool and all but it is a step backwards. The other downside to mantle is it will be used mainly on Consoles. Most consoles are using AMD this means AAA title games for PC will have poor support or no support for mantle and there will be very few select titles for PC that support it. I'm thinking like phsyx but worse. For Mantle to succeed it needs to be cross platform like OpenGL/DirectX.

Christ, you would have been better off keeping this to yourself, because you couldn't be more wrong.

1. Mantle is technically not exclusive to AMD. It can be used on NVidia as well, just NVidia needs to support it in their driver which they probably never will.
2. Mantle is a step forward if you look at it in a technical way.
3. AMD has said(Multiple times) that Mantle will not be used in consoles. It was not developed for consoles. So no, what you call a downside, is irrelevant, as its false.

 

[erocker]

I getting about a 5-8 fps increase with Mantle. FRAPS doesn't seem to be working with it.

 

[Nordic]

I don't see the rush that everyone seems to have to either love or hate mantle. Most software like this, amd or not, is extremely buggy at first. Lets just say it works great. The games it supports is so few. Mantle needs to mature. People need to give it time.

 

[CrackerJack]

I getting about a 5-8 fps increase with Mantle. FRAPS doesn't seem to be working with it.

Fraps only gathers from DirectX or OpenGL, I'm sure Mantle will be in the future

 

[natr0n]

Have you guys played in game mp, I keep having issues now cant see guns in menus. when i spawn I have no gun and arms glitch out farther.

This is on DX after testing manlte. Gonna reinstall it see what happens.

 

[CrackerJack]

I had that issue before installing 14.1, along with no sounds like others. So I assume it was just another in game issue. Tried a game repair.. no go.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

Christ, you would have been better off keeping this to yourself, because you couldn't be more wrong.

1. Mantle is technically not exclusive to AMD. It can be used on NVidia as well, just NVidia needs to support it in their driver which they probably never will.
2. Mantle is a step forward if you look at it in a technical way.
3. AMD has said(Multiple times) that Mantle will not be used in consoles. It was not developed for consoles. So no, what you call a downside, is irrelevant, as its false.

1. It is AMD exclusive...meaning if Nvidia wants it they have to licence it AND make changes to hardware, which will require more licensing because the hardware to take advantage is also IP. It;s not just a new instruction set or middle-ware, it is a software instruction set dependent on proprietary hardware.
2. Technically it is a step back because it is proprietary and proprietary limits development.
3. Not be used in consoles initially.

 

[erocker]

From what I understand this Nvidia or any other company doesn't need a licence for Mantle. It's free, they just need to make a driver for it that works with their hardware. It is not proprietary.

 

[TheMailMan78]

From what I understand this Nvidia or any other company doesn't need a licence for Mantle. It's free, they just need to make a driver for it that works with their hardware. It is not proprietary.

I have also heard the same thing. HOWEVER I find it very hard to believe a company would create an API that would help their competitors out without a cost. SOMEONE has to pay for the development of Mantle.

 

[erocker]

I have also heard the same thing. HOWEVER I find it very hard to believe a company would create an API that would help their competitors out without a cost. SOMEONE has to pay for the development of Mantle.

Yes, if a company were to adopt Mantle they would have to pay their employees to make drivers for it. Just like they have to do for Direct X or any other API that decides to come along.

 

[Crap Daddy]

I have also heard the same thing. HOWEVER I find it very hard to believe a company would create an API that would help their competitors out without a cost. SOMEONE has to pay for the development of Mantle.

It is proprietary. Not even the 5*** or 6*** series from AMD are supported. Business is business.

 

[erocker]

It is proprietary. Not even the 5*** or 6*** series from AMD are supported. Business is business.

How does that make it proprietary? Perhaps it just needs to be coded to work with those GPU's. That takes time, money, etc.

If it were proprietary, a company such as Nvidia would have to pay AMD in order to use it. They don't.

 

[MxPhenom 216]

1. It is AMD exclusive...meaning if Nvidia wants it they have to licence it AND make changes to hardware, which will require more licensing because the hardware to take advantage is also IP. It;s not just a new instruction set or middle-ware, it is a software instruction set dependent on proprietary hardware.
2. Technically it is a step back because it is proprietary and proprietary limits development.
3. Not be used in consoles initially.

AMD has said multiple times it is not proprietary (There is a slide, that said it works on all hardware, during their presentations). If NVidia wants it to be compatible with their hardware, they just need to include that support in their driver, which will likely never happen, because we all know NVidia's business practices.

It will not be used on consoles really at all. One of Mantle's purposes is to give developers and easier environment to work with when developing/porting to PC. It gives developers lower level access to the architecture of the hardware, giving them a more console like environment.

Developers do not need that on consoles. They already have a "coding to the metal" environment.

How does that make it proprietary? Perhaps it just needs to be coded to work with those GPU's. That takes time, money, etc.
If it were proprietary, a company such as Nvidia would have to pay AMD in order to use it. They don't.

Agreed.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Nvidia would have to pay AMD in order to use it. They don't.

Has then been confirmed? Or is it just the internet saying that hoping for an open source world again? Where is a link saying its free to everyone?

 

[erocker]

Has then been confirmed? Or is it just the internet saying that hoping for an open source world again? Where is a link saying its free to everyone?

It is mentioned. Here's just one article of many that mentions it on the last paragraph: http://www.techspot.com/news/54134-amd-launches-mantle-api-to-optimize-pc-gpu-performance.html

*I hope Nvidia picks it up. Truth be told, they'd probably do it better than AMD>

 

[HD64G]

CGN is just made for HSA and brings the possibility for the CPU to offload some of its job to GPU due to its way of handling data and physics which is way better than previous GPU architectures. That is the only reason why Mantle is ONLY for CGN from AMD's GPU series of products. nVidia is another story though. Personally I didn't like this company only because of its price strategy=arrogance the last 10 years. So, if they try to sabotage Mantle instead of making their GPUs work with it, this will be the proof that they don't care about the customers AT ALL but ONLY for money. Every company does this but they exceed every limit in doing so.

And Mantle is perfect for people with CPUs up to $150 or having 2 or more GPUs. It diminishes the bottleneck of CPU. And in game engines made from the base up with it gives devs much more freedom in creation.

 

[TheMailMan78]

It is mentioned. Here's just one article of many that mentions it on the last paragraph: http://www.techspot.com/news/54134-amd-launches-mantle-api-to-optimize-pc-gpu-performance.html

*I hope Nvidia picks it up. Truth be told, they'd probably do it better than AMD>

Awesome. Thank you sir. I still don't understand why AMD would spend that kind of money to develop and API just to give it away as open source. Just doesn't make sense. There HAS to be an angle to it I'm ignorant of. Where the hell is the old goat to simplify things for me?!

 

[erocker]

Awesome. Thank you sir. I still don't understand why AMD would spend that kind of money to develop and API just to give it away as open source. Just doesn't make sense. There HAS to be an angle to it I'm ignorant of. Where the hell is the old goat to simplify things for me?!

Who knows. Maybe this was a pet project of some of the guys at AMD and it works.. kinda.

 

[Mathragh]

Awesome. Thank you sir. I still don't understand why AMD would spend that kind of money to develop and API just to give it away as open source. Just doesn't make sense. There HAS to be an angle to it I'm ignorant of. Where the hell is the old goat to simplify things for me?!

I think the reward for AMD would be the adoption of mantle by Nvidia and Intel itself, since at that point AMD will (probably) have the advantage of being the most experienced player using an API that is used by all, resulting in a competitive advantage for AMD. The advantage will probably weaken over time, but it might just gain AMD some additional sales/marketshare.

 

[The Von Matrices]

Awesome. Thank you sir. I still don't understand why AMD would spend that kind of money to develop and API just to give it away as open source. Just doesn't make sense. There HAS to be an angle to it I'm ignorant of. Where the hell is the old goat to simplify things for me?!

Where are you seeing that it's open source? All I see is that the API is open, meaning that anyone can use it, just like how DirectX's API is open. All the other reports I've read state that AMD is not releasing the code because it's "not ready."

It's a closed source API at the moment. AMD is officially "open to changes" but is not obligated to introduce them. In a sense this is good because it reduces fragmentation of the code. However, if for example NVidia wanted to adopt it but wanted changes that would be able to use functional units specific to their GPUs, it would be completely up to AMD to decide whether or not to implement them. In the end Mantle is no more open to third parties than DirectX.

 

[RoutedScripter]

I'm just looking at like 10 articles from various sources , crappy flashy tech sites posting their manure. ExtremeTech, HardOCP, what the hell ever, one of them made a BF4 crossfire mantle benchmark ofcourse it's all bugged it got 50% less performance and the idiots went into their story about how "mantle doesn't look good here".

Just as I told you what will happen, they're all making these reviews like it's some kind of a "release" and talking about how mantle will not make GPUs performance faster. I TOLD you the stupid ass media will make this up. Go look my posts from a month ago.

A lot of the dribel is totally false because, as Oxide said, they don't have any real GPU opimizations in the starswarm code, they don't have crossfire support, it's all WORK IN FUCKING PROGRESS, and these sites make me sick, they make it like a "product" has been released.

AMD said that the implementation is all beta, it's total early beta, and that's exactly how I expected the numbers to show, around 30% for the games, and around 300-400% for starswarm from CPU performance.

 

[ZenZimZaliben]

I am positive I have read this is not opensource and is hardware specific, meaning it will take more then just a software licence to use.

https://twitter.com/Thracks/status/383872285351739393


"@Thracks is MANTLE open source ?"

"@GnrlKhalid No. It is an API for the industry-standard GCN Architecture and its specific ISA, done at the request of game developers."

These means the hardware has to have built in means of handling these instructions. Like during chip fabrication, not some driver that just makes it work.