The State of Cryptocurrency

[R-T-B]

Says who? You've got no idea what you're talking about, the money might not be insured (well technically the govt bank funds are kinda guaranteed by the central govt) but in terms of ease of doing business wrt banking (people to people) we have a ton of ways, which doesn't involve paying stupid taxes or unnecessary documentation.

Internationally?

That's one of the problems crypto solves, but never gets credit for.

 

[R0H1T]

Internationally?

I assume he's talking international & interbank, nationally.

[Edit] There is also the matter of cross border transfers. If I want to send money overseas, I can send it to a family member, if I register their documentation and I can send it to my own account overseas (at considerable expense). If I were a local, however, It would be impossible to send money out. Hell, even incoming transfers to my accounts from inside the country are not allowed unless I provide proof of where the funds are from and tax receipts. I've actually had my salary payments held by the bank for weeks, because the amount included a bonus that was not part of my regular salary. I cannot even go to the bank with cash and deposit it, unless I provide documentation with rubber stamps.

Countries like India and China are likely even worse than this! Even in Korea, it is difficult to send money out, hence all the news regarding government regulation. If you look at the countries where crypto usage is booming, they are usually the countries with shitty banking and lots of restrictions. Asia, Russia and Eastern Europe.

The US and Europe are pretty good. To combat money laundering, you have government agencies that investigate things whilst keeping the banking regulations open. Other countries go the opposite way and have very stringent banking regulations, but no agencies. This doesn't stop the real criminals and just makes it a pain in the ass for everyone else.
[/Edit]

 

[hat]

Says who? You've got no idea what you're talking about, the money might not be insured (well technically the govt bank funds are kinda guaranteed by the central govt) but in terms of ease of doing business wrt banking (people to people) we have a ton of ways, which doesn't always involve paying stupid taxes or unnecessary documentation.

I'm not understanding how you can refute somebody's personal experience.

 

[R0H1T]

I'm not understanding how you can refute somebody's personal experience.

Personal experience wrt the 2 countries he mentioned? I'm pretty sure I know more about India than him, China ~ well he'll have to clarify that. And yes I admit the international transfers are a pain but they aren't as bad, in India or Asia, as was implied. In fact in places where mobile wallets are a thing, interbank transfers within a country are much easier & faster than the west.

 

[silkstone]

Says who? You've got no idea what you're talking about, the money might not be insured (well technically the govt bank funds are kinda guaranteed by the central govt) but in terms of ease of doing business wrt banking (people to people) we have a ton of ways, which doesn't always involve paying stupid taxes or unnecessary documentation.

I'm not sure what part of my post you are replying to (it was pretty long). Money is pretty easy to do business with, right but far from safe or secure. Bank funds are not always insured. Hell, here bank notes are not even guaranteed, if they become damaged, you lose that money and counterfeiting is rampant (in some countries). Also inflation can be crazy high and exchanging fiat to foreign currency nigh on impossible. It wouldn't surprise me if in 5+ years, we see countries integrating blockchain in their own currencies. Either as a secure store of money or an anti-counterfeiting method.

Your are coming from a very narrow viewpoint and your point is country specific and you are referring to countries with well established and well regulated banking systems along with robust government policies. It is not like that in many parts of the world. Whilst the benefits of using crypto in many western countries may not be apparent, they are when you look at it globally and crypto-currencies are nothing if not a global phenomena.

[Edit] - I realize that you coming from the perspective of in India. I am not that familiar with the banking system there, but It has been in the news every now and then. Maybe it isn't so restrictive, can you transfer money across borders freely and easily? Are there restrictions on receiving money?

Personal experience wrt the 2 countries he mentioned? I'm pretty sure I know more about India than him, China ~ well he'll have to clarify that. And yes I admit the international transfers are a pain but they aren't as bad, in India or Asia, as was implied. In fact in places where mobile wallets are a thing, interbank transfers within a country are much easier & faster than the west.

China, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar, Albania, Venezuela, Philippines, Cuba, Russia, . . . need I go on?
Not that I have personal experience with all of those countries, but the banking systems are a lot more restrictive because the taxman doesn't have as much regulatory oversight as in other countries (among other reasons).

 

[R0H1T]

I'm not sure what part of my post you are replying to (it was pretty long). Money is pretty easy to do business with, right but far from safe or secure. Bank funds are not always insured. Hell, here bank notes are not even guaranteed, if they become damaged, you lose that money and counterfeiting is rampant (in some countries). Also inflation can be crazy high and exchanging fiat to foreign currency nigh on impossible. It wouldn't surprise me if in 5+ years, we see countries integrating blockchain in their own currencies. Either as a secure store of money or an anti-counterfeiting method.

Your are coming from a very narrow viewpoint and your point is country specific and you are referring to countries with well established and well regulated banking systems along with robust government policies. It is not like that in many parts of the world. Whilst the benefits of using crypto in many western countries may not be apparent, they are when you look at it globally and crypto-currencies are nothing if not a global phenomena.

[Edit] - I realize that you coming from the perspective of in India. I am not that familiar with the banking system there, but It has been in the news every now and then. Maybe it isn't so restrictive, can you transfer money across borders freely and easily? Are there restrictions on receiving money?



China, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Myanmar, Albania, Venezuela, Philippines, Cuba, Russia, . . . need I go on?
Not that I have personal experience with all of those countries, but the banking systems are a lot more restrictive because the taxman doesn't have as much regulatory oversight as in other countries (among other reasons).

There's two things which I object to, firstly I don't think the banking system in the west is much different or too evolved as compared to the organized (banking) sector in much of Asia, Africa or LatAm. As I pointed out previously, in case of India there are already too many payment options (like mobile wallet) at your disposal, as well as interbank payment. The problem is with international transfers, that too not without reason.

Basically a lot of money sent overseas is unaccounted for i.e. earned through shady sources or unpaid taxes. So the banking & FE regulators have put these levers for tax dodgers & criminals. In places like India, or China, the problem isn't sending money ~ it's taxing it fairly since there are already too many loopholes that individuals & corporates exploit.

The same goes for a large number of nations you mentioned. Also the reason why crypto is a bad idea, anonymous transfer of money is just a massive PITA that many on this form don't understand the implications of. You heard of demonetization in India? Well let's just say crypto could have the exact opposite effect.

There's also hyperbole like this ~

Money is pretty easy to do business with, right but far from safe or secure. Bank funds are not always insured. Hell, here bank notes are not even guaranteed, if they become damaged, you lose that money and counterfeiting is rampant (in some countries). Also inflation can be crazy high and exchanging fiat to foreign currency nigh on impossible.

This is not a country specific problem, in fact there's only a handful of countries that'd do the exact opposite.

 

[silkstone]

There's two things which I object to, firstly I don't think the banking system in the west is much different or too evolved as compared to the organized (banking) sector in much of Asia, Africa or LatAm. As I pointed out previously, in case of India there are already too many payment options (like mobile wallet) at your disposal, as well as interbank payment. The problem is with international transfers, that too not without reason.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I've had bank accounts in a few different countries and I can assure you there is a difference. Hell, most places don't even have any sort of direct debit system in place and you can forget about trying to open any kind of savings account in some. (Funnily enough, Singapore seems to have one of the best banking systems, unobtrusive regulation, but it is more expensive) There's also the point that Visa and MasterCard are pretty expensive methods of payment.

Basically a lot of money sent overseas is unaccounted for i.e. earned through shady sources or unpaid taxes. So the banking & FE regulators have put these levers for tax dodgers & criminals. In places like India, or China, the problem isn't sending money ~ it's taxing it fairly since there are already too many loopholes that individuals & corporates exploit.

Right, but those criminals still have a way of getting money overseas and corporations will always exploit loopholes. Restrictive banking legislation doesn't really stop the issue, it just makes it more expensive. Most of the regulations are actually put in place to help prevent money laundering, rather than tax dodging (and laundered money is usually taxed money). But, I'd imagine that with a fully public, blockchain traceable series of transactions, finding illegal activity would actually be easier. Criminals moved away from Bitcoin a long time ago because of this. I'd 'hope' that if cryptocurriencies took a larger portion of the international money transfer system, then countries (both sending and receiving) would implement measures to ensure the correct checks are done. There are other reasons countries restrict the free flow of currency, but they are more to do with economic policy and I can't pretend I know enough about the topic to even begin to explain.

The same goes for a large number of nations you mentioned. Also the reason why crypto is a bad idea, anonymous transfer of money is just a massive PITA that many on this form don't understand the implications of. You heard of demonetization in India? Well let's just say crypto could have the exact opposite effect.

There's also hyperbole like this ~
This is not a country specific problem, in fact there's only a handful of countries that'd do the exact opposite.

Who is talking about anonymity? There are a handful of coins that are properly anonymous, but most can be traced to a certain extent. Even those that can't, you can still trace the purchases.

I am just focusing on one aspect of blockchain use, of which there are many. While it is not perfect, there are definitely advantages to it over the current system. One would hope that as the technology matures, the advantages become more numerous and regulations develop in step. I'm not an ideologist and don't believe that cryptocurrency is the answer to the worlds problems. Some will fail (and they should) while others mature, make things a little easier/better, and work alongside the mainstream financial system.

 

[the54thvoid]

Ah, the power issue is catching up with Iceland...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43030677

 

[dorsetknob]

just read and was about to link / post
One Good thing to come from Iceland power Shortage
Playing Bjork will be a Problem Solved Bless her pixi socks

 

[trog100]

cypto seems to be on the way up again.. bitcoin has broken the 9000 resistance level and litecoin is up by nearly %40 over a 24 hour period..

my little stash is up £1200 quid overnight..

14/02/2018 15:36

895 x 6.5 = 5817 etherium

212 x 25 = 5300 litecoin

0.385 x 1035 = 398 cardano

118 x 26 = 3068 neo

US dollars total = 14583 UK pounds total = 10499

trog

 

[Captain_Tom]

We got some money stolen form our house.

They cant steal it from our bank.

The bank can (and does) steal the money from you though.

It absolutely doesn't look like it's the case.

It's price graph looks like a mountain range. If you consider that a proper way of keeping your savings ... well let's just say that the bitconnect guy will be happy to do business with you.

Bitconnect was an obvious Ponzi scheme that isn't Bitcoin. I am guessing you know absolutely nothing about it though...

 

[Vya Domus]

I am guessing you know absolutely nothing about it though...

I know as much as everyone else on here that can afford to waste their time arguing about some speculative matters on some random forum thread. But judging from your very comprehensive comment you definitely seem more eligible than anyone else here to tell me whether or not I know something about a particular subject.

Or maybe not , how about next time you refrain yourself from trying to measure my knowledge.

 

[dorsetknob]

Captain_Tom said:

"I am guessing you know absolutely nothing about it though..."


I know a little more than i did 5 min ago does that make me an Expert ( compared to some comments made yeh sure )

 

[Outback Bronze]

The bank can (and does) steal the money from you though.

Its still safer leaving it in the bank than around the house..

 

[Captain_Tom]

I know as much as everyone else on here that can afford to waste their time arguing about some speculative matters on some random forum thread. But judging from your very comprehensive comment you definitely seem more eligible than anyone else here to tell me whether or not I know something about a particular subject.

Or maybe not , how about next time you refrain yourself from trying to measure my knowledge.

You're kidding right? You are insulted that I "measured your knowledge" after you tried to mock me by pointing out that Bitconnect fell apart?

I wasn't talking about bitconnect. I was talking about Bitcoin, an entirely different thing. Therefore it was very easy to discern that you know absolutely nothing about anything being said by the people in this forum who are well-educated on cryptocurrencies.


In fact your comment is a prime example of the type of comments I just don't understand: People who think they are smart because they are ignorant. You don't have to get your feelings hurt when I point out that you are clearly talking out of your ___. You could just ask honest questions in an effort to learn about something you are uninformed about. At least that's what I hope these types of forums can be used for....

 

[Vya Domus]

In fact your comment is a prime example of the type of comments I just don't understand: People who think they are smart because they are ignorant. You don't have to get your feelings hurt when I point out that you are clearly talking out of your ___. You could just ask honest questions in an effort to learn about something you are uninformed about. At least that's what I hope these types of forums can be used for....

What an oxymoron your comment is , it is rather disappointing you can't even realize that.

Anyway , I see you keep throwing insults at me for no reason while trying to portray yourself as some sort of an educator in a rather pathetic way. For that reason you get a ticket straight to the ignore list.

 

[Captain_Tom]

What an oxymoron your comment is , it is rather disappointing you can't even realize that.

Anyway , I see you keep throwing insults at me for no reason while trying to portray yourself as some sort of an educator in a rather pathetic way. For that reason you get a ticket straight to the ignore list.

My comment is only an oxymoron if you can make a single point showing that you aren't ignorant. However you have ignored every request I have made for you to demonstrate you actually have anything informed to add to the conversation.


Now go show more people how smart you are by smugly posting Bitconnect pictures lol

 

[trog100]

most anti crypto people are just anti because they are anti.. sadly it all falls apart when they enter into argument as to why they are anti..

trog

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Four main reasons why people are anti-crypto:
1) created a run on computer hardware, especially mid-high end video cards.
2) they invested and sold at the wrong time losing a lot of money.
3) they hate the fact it consumes so much energy and has so little to show for it.
4) it has no financial backing whatsoever so it's a 100% speculative financial instrument.

 

[xkm1948]

Four main reasons why people are anti-crypto:
1) created a run on computer hardware, especially mid-high end video cards.
2) they invested and sold at the wrong time losing a lot of money.
3) they hate the fact it consumes so much energy and has so little to show for it.
4) it has no financial backing whatsoever so it's a 100% speculative financial instrument.

Crypto mining is just a Ponzi scheme

 

[jagjitnatt]

Four main reasons why people are anti-crypto:
1) created a run on computer hardware, especially mid-high end video cards.
2) they invested and sold at the wrong time losing a lot of money.
3) they hate the fact it consumes so much energy and has so little to show for it.
4) it has no financial backing whatsoever so it's a 100% speculative financial instrument.

Also because all that power being wasted on mining could have been used on something more productive, or could have been saved, specially when the world wants to cut emissions.

The biggest reason though remains the fact that it is a bubble. It will come crashing down as soon as governments start regulating it. As prices go up, it becomes more and more lucrative to hack an exchange and get away with millions. We are already seeing the effects.

 

[moproblems99]

Crypto mining is just a Ponzi scheme

Can you explain how mining is a ponzi scheme?

 

[eidairaman1]

Just like trying to grasp at the wind.

 

[Captain_Tom]

Also because all that power being wasted on mining could have been used on something more productive, or could have been saved, specially when the world wants to cut emissions.

The biggest reason though remains the fact that it is a bubble. It will come crashing down as soon as governments start regulating it. As prices go up, it becomes more and more lucrative to hack an exchange and get away with millions. We are already seeing the effects.

Governments are regulating it right now, and that is a good thing for the price long term. Furthermore are you aware that the need for cheap energy mining firms are demanding is accelerating renewable resource adoption in multiple locations?

P.S. Saying something is "a bubble" is a non-statement. Everything new is a bubble. The internet is still here after the dot.com crash, and people who bought Amazon stock at $7 ended up being pretty smart didn't they?

 

[silkstone]

Its still safer leaving it in the bank than around the house..

It depends on the bank. There are some banks that I wouldn't be comfortable leaving more than a couple of grand in and account with. Which is about the same amount I'd be comfortable leaving at home. At least in the home, you can hide the money or install a safe. Home insurance will also, usually, cover cash losses in case of a break in. When someone steals from your bank account, you can usually get it back, but it takes a long time and isn't always guaranteed. It's not a phenomena that is restricted to low/middle-income countries either. When you read about all of the hacks, thefts, ID theft, etc. only a fool would keep everything in a bank.

A large number of people I know have had money stolen from their accounts, some of them from big name banks too. Sometimes due to card skimmers, sometimes dodgy retail outlets, but other times it's been bank employees stealing their details to make purchases.

With money, the saying 'don't keep all your eggs in one basket, is very pertinent. I have money spread in 3 bank accounts (2 local and one overseas), stocks, gold, crypto, cash, and property (my home). Not that I have a lot in any, but i've set it up in such a way that it is easy to put money into any. Keeping all of your money in one place is a really bad Idea. I would never recommend having more than 5% of your total assets in something as risky as crypto though. Stock market investors use a similar strategy of diversification with a small amount allocated to high risk/reward investments.