Been thinking of jumping on the hdr gsync 120hz bandwagon, but hesitant due to potential ghosting, motion blur, imperfections

[EarthDog]

true 4k,

4k uhd, 3840x2160, is not true 4k.

Just as 2k resolution isnt 2560x1440...

 

[mtcn77]

Sounds harsh...but the whole LCD thing started as a cost cutting measure because CRT was going to be impossible for mass production at the current scale. Then we iterated for decades....

Music to my ears. However, I find it that pessimism is undue. The BFI thingy is crt worthy. The unit is especially good when calibrated.

Spoiler: Samsung

The two monitors use different panel technologies, each with advantages and disadvantages. The LG 27GL850-B hs an IPS panel that allows wider viewing angles, whereas the Samsung CHG70 has a VA panel and offers better dark room performance thanks to the much better contrast ratio and local dimming feature. The LG has slightly faster response time, but the Samsung has a black frame insertion feature that can help make motion look crisper.

Samsung CHG70 Review (C27HG70, C32HG70)

The Samsung C27HG70 is a good monitor for most uses. The VA panel delivers deep blacks, and it can display a wide color gamut, great for watching HDR content. It...

www.rtings.com

LG 27GL850-B

/thread

I wouldn't sport any alternative, but the LG is only the second alternative, mind you... the tops so-said in reference is this;

Spoiler: Asus(also, check out the Viewsonic)

The ASUS TUF VG27AQ is much better than the Samsung CHG70. The Asus has better ergonomics and viewing angles, but the contrast ratio isn't as good. Black uniformity is significantly better on the ASUS; however, it can't get as bright as the Samsung, particularly in HDR content.

What Is Motion Blur Reduction? (ULMB, LightBoost, 1ms MPRT, DyAc)

Motion blur reduction creates CRT-like motion clarity by backlight strobing which is ideal for competitive fast-paced games.

www.displayninja.com

However, Samsung has black frame insertion with staggered strobing(4 pulses instead of 1 increase the pixel transition phase response with strobe crosstalk reduced to a quarter).
However, I see why Asus is called the best. It has something unique, a variable strobe.

ASUS’ ELMB-Sync is the first MBR technology that can simultaneously run VRR and strobe the backlight. In theory, you’re supposed to get a gaming experience without tearing, stuttering, or motion blur.

 

[er557]

LG 27GL850-B

/thread

I will hardly downgrade to 27" from 40" 4k, nevermind how advanced it is, maybe in a month when
LG 38GL950G-B
is available online,
so no, thread not done

 

[FreedomEclipse]

I will hardly downgrade to 27" from 40" 4k, nevermind how advanced it is, maybe in a month when
LG 38GL950G-B
is available online,
so no, thread not done

Apologies - I entered the thread without reading the OP so i assumed from the title that you were unsure about upgrading to a high refresh rate monitor and asking for suggestions. my monitor recommendation has been highly recommended by multiple sites & big tech youtubers.

If it wasnt to your liking - fair enough. No need to be a dick about it.

 

[Solid State Soul ( SSS )]

although circa 2015, I enjoy it still and have zero issues in gaming

If it gives you satisfactory performance for your everyday use, and you have been reading about potential inconveniences about the monitors in mind, then it would be preferred to keep using your current monitor until those technologies mature.

What you are feeling now is just an upgrade itch, but its not something you totally need at the moment.

 

[er557]

Apologies - I entered the thread without reading the OP so i assumed from the title that you were unsure about upgrading to a high refresh rate monitor and asking for suggestions. my monitor recommendation has been highly recommended by multiple sites & big tech youtubers.

If it wasnt to your liking - fair enough. No need to be a dick about it.

no offense, i merely responded to you suggesting to close the thread based on lack of reading the OP, nothing i said was offensive, i discussed and pointed out an alternative display.

 

[Vayra86]

Thanks for that insight, what prompted me to look into the panel was this review

ASUS ROG Strix XG438Q Review: It's So Good, ASUS Will Hate This Review

ASUS ROG Strix XG438Q - 43-inch 4K 120Hz, the best fun I've had on a gaming monitor EVER!

www.tweaktown.com

And this is my current panel

Philips Brilliance BDM4065UC

The Philips Brilliance BDM4065UC is a 40-inch 4K monitor. Can this desk-destroyer topple its rivals?

www.trustedreviews.com

although circa 2015, I enjoy it still and have zero issues in gaming

Man, that review... its disgusting to read this much bias. This here is a reviewer that gets disappointed by a good panel (X27) 'because its only 27 inch'... dafuq has diagonal to do with quality?

Always try before you buy, or have a hassle free return policy, is what I'll say. One thing is for sure, the stars do align in terms of panel specs here for this diagonal, and in that it is pretty unique. But it has drawbacks. Its always a trade off and that is what I was getting at earlier; many tricks are deployed to produce this sort of thing, and some of them will stick out. Its personal whether or not each one will or will not kill the vibe for you.

I mean this to me is a big headscratcher. You can also just say the diagonal is right. And in what world is 1100 bucks a helluva deal?

LG 27GL850-B

/thread

One of the options I was alluding to earlier, indeed. There's also a 31,5 version if size matters. Going much bigger... well, if it suits the battlestation but its really something to consider carefully.

Music to my ears. However, I find it that pessimism is undue. The BFI thingy is crt worthy. The unit is especially good when calibrated.

Spoiler: Samsung

Samsung CHG70 Review (C27HG70, C32HG70)

The Samsung C27HG70 is a good monitor for most uses. The VA panel delivers deep blacks, and it can display a wide color gamut, great for watching HDR content. It...

www.rtings.com

I wouldn't sport any alternative, but the LG is only the second alternative, mind you... the tops so-said in reference is this;

Spoiler: Asus(also, check out the Viewsonic)

What Is Motion Blur Reduction? (ULMB, LightBoost, 1ms MPRT, DyAc)

Motion blur reduction creates CRT-like motion clarity by backlight strobing which is ideal for competitive fast-paced games.

www.displayninja.com

However, Samsung has black frame insertion with staggered strobing(4 pulses instead of 1 increase the pixel transition phase response with strobe crosstalk reduced to a quarter).
However, I see why Asus is called the best. It has something unique, a variable strobe.

ELMB is a pretty cool thing, but people shouldn't overestimate it. Gsync and BFI together is a wet dream though, in theory.

But in practice... I have a strobing 120hz VA and the strobe works just fine until your FPS drops below 60-70 depending on game and engine. Though that is with a double rate strobe (240hz black insertion), and not all are equal... So how useful is it, really?

 

[Regeneration]

HDR is a bit painful to my eyes...



High refresh rate and 4K [if you have the hardware] is what you should aim for.

 

[mtcn77]

Though that is with a double rate strobe (240hz black insertion), and not all are equal... So how useful is it, really?

Funny that you would ask that. 240Hz bfi is present in eizo panels. They have a habit of not living up to standards. Ironically, the samsung in question is one of the former group that let's you use it at 100Hz with prelaunch firmware. It is kinda important in the strobe community.

Where is @Falkentyne?

 

[moproblems99]

Yep, last monitor I bought was $540 like 8 years ago. Now Im looking for a 1440 ultra wide

Don't do it if you do productivity work.

- Freesync/GSync with HDR are not compatible (or not fully compatible). Both AMD and Nvidia have their proprietary HDR in form of Freesync 2 and GSync Ultimate. Neither is perfect and we still have no idea where standardization goes with this.

I have Freesync 2.0 and it comes with a half assed hdr. I believe it comes down to my monitor not having appropriate control zones to darken, lighten, etc. Destiny seems to work/look ok with it but I generally leave it off.

Gsync and Freesync aren't really needed for monitors with high refresh rate. There is no tearing when FPS is lower than refresh rate.

Gsync/Freesync is exactly what you want when you can't hit the monitors refresh rate.

 

[er557]

HDR is a bit painful to my eyes...

View attachment 151195 View attachment 151196

High refresh rate and 4K [if you have the hardware] is what you should aim for.

Link to such a display at this size? I dont think they exist without hdr or gsync

 

[Regeneration]

1ms
Asus XG438Q
Asus PG43UQ
Samsung C49HG90

4ms
Deco DGVIEW430
Acer EI491CR Pbmiiipx

Or you can save a lot of money, and buy a TV instead, but then you'll have to research each model since vendors post fake refresh rates.

HDR uses TV color system (YCbCr) to begin with. But you won't find 144Hz TVs, maybe 120Hz.

 

[R-T-B]

Technically it is a freesync if it works. Gsync comes with a module which conflicts with native lcd overdrive.

I've tried both freesync and gsync versions of the monitor in my profile, the LG 32GK850F. Currently using the freesync version. The Gsync version had a gsync module.

The gsync version was hands down better. Why? The ranges worked better. The freesync one flickers below 96hz, and the gysync one doesn't. They use the same panel, so the gsync module must do some black magic to stop that flicker. Take that for whatever it's worth. May only be applicable to my LG,-32850 series, admittedly.

 

[moproblems99]

I've tried both freesync and gsync versions of the monitor in my profile, the LG 32GK850F. Currently using the freesync version. The Gsync version had a gsync module.

The gsync version was hands down better. Why? The ranges worked better. The freesync one flickers below 96hz, and the gysync one doesn't. They use the same panel, so the gsync module must do some black magic to stop that flicker. Take that for whatever it's worth. May only be applicable to my LG,-32850 series, admittedly.

I have the 34GK950F and I don't notice and flicker?

 

[R-T-B]

I have the 34GK950F and I don't notice and flicker?

You use the extended freesync range 48-144hz? You need to manually choose this via the OSD.

If you aren't running it in extended mode it will limit itself to a more reasonable 96-144hz that does not flicker. You may be in that boat. With LFC on the monitor you may not even know it, but you are.

Mine was "Amazon renewed" so maybe I just got a bad one, too. As I said it's a purely anecdotal report.

EDIT: And it also might have something to do with 32vs34, just caught that. The 32 uses a AU Optronics panel paired with an LG backlight and it is very different from the 34 as the 32's panel-package is essentially bonded together in house by LG, rather than a prepackaged replacable thing.

But yeah, it may be a model specific thing too. No idea. Just one report.

 

[Regeneration]

With 144hz, 1ms monitor, you can just DISABLE V-sync and enjoy smooth gaming experience with zero input lag.

You should only enable V-sync on very old titles with FPS above 300. Even then, V-sync at 144 will be smooth.

No need for Gsync, FreeSync, FastSync, or whatever. The days of tearing in the bottom of the screen are over.

 

[R-T-B]

The days of tearing in the bottom of the screen are over.

Any reason that running at 60fps dips as I often do wouldn't cause screen tearing on a 144hz monitor? That doesn't sound right. And as I last experienced it, wasn't right.

 

[moproblems99]

You use the extended freesync range 48-144hz? You need to manually choose this via the OSD.

If you aren't running it in extended mode it will limit itself to a more reasonable 96-144hz that does not flicker. You may be in that boat. With LFC on the monitor you may not even know it, but you are.

Mine was "Amazon renewed" so maybe I just got a bad one, too. As I said it's a purely anecdotal report.

EDIT: And it also might have something to do with 32vs34, just caught that. The 32 uses a AU Optronics panel paired with an LG backlight and it is very different from the 34 as the 32's panel-package is essentially bonded together in house by LG, rather than a prepackaged replacable thing.

But yeah, it may be a model specific thing too. No idea. Just one report.

I am pretty sure lfc and extended range are enabled. Though the game I have been playing lately, RDR2, I am in the 46 to 48 range so it is possible I am out of range. I was thinking the range was in the 30s like my last Freesync monitor, that was 30-75hz. I have reverted to being a plug and play consumer for the last 6 months while I sort some life things out so I could be completely wrong.

Edit: what pisses me off the most is the dang speakers don't work over HDMI. You have to have the damn USB plugged in which screws with my kvm switch.

 

[R-T-B]

I am pretty sure lfc and extended range are enabled. Though the game I have been playing lately, RDR2, I am in the 46 to 48 range so it is possible I am out of range. I was thinking the range was in the 30s like my last Freesync monitor, that was 30-75hz. I have reverted to being a plug and play consumer for the last 6 months while I sort some life things out so I could be completely wrong.

Edit: what pisses me off the most is the dang speakers don't work over HDMI. You have to have the damn USB plugged in which screws with my kvm switch.

I think the issue is model specific anyways. This monitor was made with a panel rated for a far higher minimum refresh rate than they pushed it out with. The manufacturer (AU Optronics) makes no claims about it operating below 90hz and they just did it anyways all the way down to 46hz. More an LG issue than a freesync one, but I did find it interesting the gsync module apparently works around it.

what pisses me off the most is the dang speakers don't work over HDMI. You have to have the damn USB plugged in which screws with my kvm switch.

I'm finding all sorts of niggly little things like that with LG products, btw. Makes me miss Panasonic as a good alternative to them in TVs, panels, heck anything (they have largely withdrawn display tech from North America). Samsung has a different set of issues, naturally.

 

[Regeneration]

Any reason that running at 60fps dips as I often do wouldn't cause screen tearing on a 144hz monitor? That doesn't sound right. And as I last experienced it, wasn't right.

34GK950F has fake response time of 1ms MBR, 5ms G2G.

 

[mtcn77]

The gsync version was hands down better. Why? The ranges worked better. The freesync one flickers below 96hz, and the gysync one doesn't. They use the same panel, so the gsync module must do some black magic to stop that flicker.

To the contrary, gsync is avoiding to do a misstep and that is lcd overdrive. Overdrive is harmful if your pixel transition start and finish targets are the same, you get a nice bump to luminance which you perceive even before the color tone.
This just goes to note a common concept, you cannot have a static overdrive level with vrr, you need to have it custom, it has to match its level up to the frame rate; the faster lcd overdrive, as refresh rate rises. Have it at peak and you have reverse ghosting at mid fps steps, 0-0 transitions are the worst, they even invalidate the starting color.
You have LFS, but that is just half the asset. You need to have variable overdrive, too. It can be fixed if overdrive voltage setting is turned over to the driver per frame period span and goes through a no-op switch if it is a repeat frame. It is not optimal to set the fastest lcd overdrive when the display is operating at vrr - the higher overdrive levels are the worst offshoot offenders when frame rate is modulated and the displays actually have different fastest settings at two different refresh rates, forcing one onto the other is a sure offender of ghosting. Your lcd has an overshoot, reverse ghosting, issue which you'll need to fix by attributing a lower overdrive setting.
Nvidia goes around this by keeping it between the same range regardless of refresh rate, the pixel clock is always buffered. It essentially works through v/h blank porches, in all my suspicion. Plus, you don't get to opt an overdrive level with nvidia, only with ulmb. You just hope for the best, in all truth it does not miss the target. Amd can fix this if they have variable ranges of overdrive levels for repeat frames, unless they assign a lower default preset.

If you aren't running it in extended mode it will limit itself to a more reasonable 96-144hz that does not flicker. You may be in that boat. With LFC on the monitor you may not even know it, but you are.

The displays are overdrive calibrated up to their specification. Beyond that, it is unknown territory. The OEMs then put these into their final product.
Nvidia inviolates this too, but in a different way. They do it in the upper range. Notice how pixel response is the same whether gsync monitors are overclocked or not - this is such an uncalibrated use scenario when you would have benefitted from a faster lcd setting, albeit there isn't any room to do so.

 

[moproblems99]

34GK950F has fake response time of 1ms MBR, 5ms G2G.

Not his monitor.

 

[R-T-B]

34GK950F has fake response time of 1ms MBR, 5ms G2G.

ah. So it's more response time than pixel refresh? That also goes against what I know. It seems like the blur like pixel transition-blur would soften the tearing rather than make it more noticable. This is exactly why the backlight blinking techs make such artifacts more noticable, because they make things appear more "impulse like" and the eye is more inclined to notice them.

And mine isn't a 1ms monitor, never said it was. Nor is the 34950F AFAIK.

Plus, you don't get to opt an overdrive level with nvidia

I did on the LG 32GK850G. This makes me kinda question your whole paragraph, frankly, what I understood of it. There are several things that just plain don't jive with my experience.

Your lcd has an overshoot, reverse ghosting, issue which you'll need to fix by attributing a lower overdrive setting.

I'm not talking about inverse ghosting at all, I know what that is and i'm not experiencing it. I'm talking about flicker in the low refresh ranges.

Oh heck, I'll try turning down overdrive a bit (despite reviews saying it's fine at highest settings) just to see if maybe, just maybe, you might be on to something. Weirder things have happened. It's not like I want you to be wrong, afterall. If it works, you are seriously my hero.

EDIT: It seems to be... working? Flicker does not occur on "normal" overdrive setting. Wow, I owe you an apology. Thank you for the help!

 

[mtcn77]

It's not like I want you to be wrong, afterall.

I always wanted to be the anti-hero. I even started my own anti-troll movement. It is almost as if, wait for it, I noticed that everything a person says until they call 'but' is not standing and only after you have given them a serious workout you know them better than they ever did...
I hope the mood clears surrounding the personal space respect month - I don't want any more april month brings star destroyer sick jokes - the atmosphere is as clear as I last saw it in my childhood memories, or else I'll have to resort to even more rooted ideas like DIYing a retro imac with a netbook attached to a crt.
This reboot of the new decade cycle has seen the return of much simpler times, a man can have his wish, don't you think?
He's got that...
I-netbook...
That I need...
Give it to me...
Crt...

 

[londiste]

@R-T-B, flicker on Freesync monitors seems to be an artifact of LFC, more often than not. Especially if you are essentially overclocking (underclocking? ) your panel with extended range.

I am pretty sure lfc and extended range are enabled. Though the game I have been playing lately, RDR2, I am in the 46 to 48 range so it is possible I am out of range. I was thinking the range was in the 30s like my last Freesync monitor, that was 30-75hz.

With LFC enabled, range does not matter - you are always getting variable refresh rate.

With 144hz, 1ms monitor, you can just DISABLE V-sync and enjoy smooth gaming experience with zero input lag.
You should only enable V-sync on very old titles with FPS above 300. Even then, V-sync at 144 will be smooth.
No need for Gsync, FreeSync, FastSync, or whatever. The days of tearing in the bottom of the screen are over.

You do get screen tear with higher fps than refresh rate. In fact, you can get more than one tear in one frame. On the flip side, tears will be smaller as well as frame lasts for shorter time which both make tears less noticeable.
If you want a pretty picture, you will run out of hardware for new games even on 1440p when we talk about 144+Hz.
The only good reason to disable VRR is when you truly need those few ms of input lag back.