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Cooling Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Air v Water

A water loop is in effect one cooler albeit slight more complicated. Can a single air cooler cool my CPU and GPU far better than my "single" loop, no. Also no massive heavy weight hanging off my motherboard.

EDIT. I don't use QDC's, they are heavy, ugly and expensive. Easy enough to drain it, do what i need and refill.
 
Gruffalo.Soldier said:
A water loop is in effect one cooler albeit slight more complicated. Can a single air cooler cool my CPU and GPU far better than my "single" loop, no. Also no massive heavy weight hanging off my motherboard.

EDIT. I don't use QDC's, they are heavy, ugly and expensive. Easy enough to drain it, do what i need and refill.
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Heh, my QDCs are matte black nylon, so they weigh about the same as an equivalent length of EK ZMT tubing, fit the look of my loop perfectly, aren't much wider than the tubing, and cost something like $15 apiece. That's not nothing, but half of what most QDCs cost, and negligible in light of the rest of the loop. Also, you're clearly not doing a reservoir-less SFF loop :p Draining, re-filling and bleeding one of those gets to be a real hassle real quick.
 
Gruffalo.Soldier said:
A water loop is in effect one cooler albeit slight more complicated. Can a single air cooler cool my CPU and GPU far better than my "single" loop, no. Also no massive heavy weight hanging off my motherboard.

EDIT. I don't use QDC's, they are heavy, ugly and expensive. Easy enough to drain it, do what i need and refill.
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I think it is unfair to compare the two. Water has such a high specific heat improvement over regular heatpipes that it is almost like that of liquid metal's conduction over regular paste that sets them apart. It would be interesting if we compared water coolers with regular paste when in comparison to using liquid metal for air coolers, imo. We would at least be comparing water's specific heat with liquid metal's conduction improvement over normal paste which round up to the same ballpark(an order higher).
 
mtcn77 said:
I think it is unfair to compare the two. Water has such a high specific heat improvement over regular heatpipes that it is almost like that of liquid metal's conduction over regular paste that sets them apart. It would be interesting if we compared water coolers with regular paste when in comparison to using liquid metal for air coolers, imo. We would at least be comparing water's specific heat with liquid metal's conduction improvement over normal paste which round up to the same ballpark(an order higher).
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Unfair, the thread is air v water
 
Gruffalo.Soldier said:
Unfair, the thread is air v water
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What if I said we had to leave 1 slot open in a radiator and only use the other slots with the radiator on a water cooler. That is the same. If we want to make assumptions, we should not set a benchmark on our incompetence, imo. What you buy is what you get, and air coolers have a sizable advantage when it comes to radiator size. The only problem is the coldplate transfer being unoptimal which can be easily remedied if we used liquid metal.
I'm sure I don't have to reiterate on specific heat vs conductance limit.
 
I don’t need biocide for my heat sink :D

Who cares if you have a kilo of aluminum hanging off your board.. it’s not going anywhere.

Watercooling is superior for sure, from a performance aspect. Now HSF vs AIO would be a closer comparison.
 
I think to a fair degree, water cooling, especially custom is about 40% at least about looks, specially folks who do really pretty hardline loops. After my destruction of a gtx1080 and a z390 board, soft tube for me only now, even if it's not as purty
 
mtcn77 said:
That is a terrible generalization. It is just better at the coldplate which can be easily equalised by liquid metal.

Aren't we discussing the two? Custom cooling is not in the same budget.
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Liquid metal has no place in my computer. I saw a liquid guy in here saying water was better. I disagree with it just being better at the plate.. the capacity is much better. Try running an all core load with a hot amd and then do it again with a loop. I can tell you which one is going to be better if things are done properly..
 
freeagent said:
Liquid metal has no place in my computer. I saw a liquid guy in here saying water was better. I disagree with it just being better at the plate.. the capacity is much better. Try running an all core load with a hot amd and then do it again with a loop. I can tell you which one is going to be better if things are done properly..
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You are complaining about heat soak and unguided venting, again not the same. If you want to reduce both, run a duct like thermalright does to your main exhaust vent.
Still, the issue comes down to unrelated stuff that eat at the performance due to intake exit flow mixing.

freeagent said:
Try running an all core load with a hot amd and then do it again with a loop.
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At least air doesn't spoil and fail in long term due to temps?

I think running any amount of serious load with water in the mix would be an amateur proposition.
 
For what it's worth = My system uses a full customer loop + Grizzly liquid metal on the cpu = combination is = very low temps always !!!

And = my new upgrade shortly will be = i9-9900K delided with Grizzly liquid metal and new copper heat sink from UK Delid.
 
mtcn77 said:
You are complaining about heat soak and unguided venting, again not the same. If you want to reduce both, run a duct like thermalright does to your main exhaust vent.
Still, the issue comes down to unrelated stuff that eat at the performance due to intake exit flow mixing.


At least air doesn't spoil and fail in long term due to temps?

I think running any amount of serious load with water in the mix would be an amateur proposition.
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Dude.. I am running like 400cfm through my case when my fans spool up, I do not need a duct..

I also have a Thermalright cooler.. several actually..
 
freeagent said:
Dude.. I am running like 400cfm through my case when my fans spool up, I do not need a duct..

I also have a Thermalright cooler.. several actually..
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400 cfm is like 4 fans... Combined with intake spoilage due to flow mixing, I think your problems are not addressed.
 
mtcn77 said:
400 cfm is like 4 fans... Combined with intake spoilage due to flow mixing, I think your problems are not addressed.
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I don't have any problems?

Its 3 fans.
 
Proof? What?

Are you reading deeper than you should be? I think so..
 
Gruffalo.Soldier said:
I think to a fair degree, water cooling, especially custom is about 40% at least about looks, specially folks who do really pretty hardline loops. After my destruction of a gtx1080 and a z390 board, soft tube for me only now, even if it's not as purty
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hi Gruffalo,

What caused the destruction of your Z390 mobo ??

Reason I ask is I'm just about to upgrade my system to a = Gigabyte Z390 Gaming X mobo.

regards
 
freeagent said:
Proof? What?

Are you reading deeper than you should be? I think so..
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What I presented doesn't have to be about your example and you can leave it at that.
I said ducts and liquid metal. You tried to dissuade their necessity and you haven't.
 
Why do I need liquid metal? I Have a Meshify C, I don't need ducts. That would fuck up my ram cooling, since I have the top of the case blocked.
 
Because you singled me out then asked for proof. I wasn't debating anything until you dragged me into it. I merely stated that water cooling is better than air cooling. Then you said no just liquid metal and something about the cold plate. I don't know, I'm just here man. :pimp:
 
I'm going to be using my Liquid Freezer II 120mm for a long time, as it's the best cooler my case will fit. I also have 2 ARCTIC P12's (one on radiator, one in bottom of case), one Noctua NF-F12 (front of case), and a big 190mm fan on the side of my case. There's also a 60mm fan zip-tied to my RAM because it gets toasty (I have B-die 3200 C14 and Nanya Tech 3200 C16 running at 3333 C16, they're close together and don't have all that much natural airflow).
For GPU cooling I have a GTX 690, which at first confused me. I then decided on switching the NF-F12 at the front of my case from intake to exhaust and running a pipe from the 690's exhaust to a panel on my case so that the airflow splits in my case. Air comes in the side and top, and goes out the front and back.

It's almost completely silent. The loudest thing in my case right now is the RAM fan and that's because it came from an Athlon XP cooler. If I turn it off I can't hear my system at all unless I spin up an HDD.

As such, I'll mark my position down as air. I know AIOs use water to transfer heat, but overall my system uses air to cool things and it does its job well.
Especially in winter - I can drop my system's temps by 15C during winter just by opening the window.
 
freeagent said:
Because you singled me out then asked for proof. I wasn't debating anything until you dragged me into it. I merely stated that water cooling is better than air cooling. Then you said no just liquid metal and something about the cold plate. I don't know, I'm just here man.
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Because you keep throwing hasty generalizations and personal viewpoints into the mix. I'd love to help if you didn't divulge in straw man so much.

RealKGB said:
For GPU cooling I have a GTX 690, which at first confused me. I then decided on switching the NF-F12 at the front of my case from intake to exhaust and running a pipe from the 690's exhaust to a panel on my case so that the airflow splits in my case. Air comes in the side and top, and goes out the front and back.
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It is the kind of thing I want to bring up. Heat spill from a gpu is very nasty and not vented properly.
 
mtcn77 said:
I'd love to help if you didn't divulge in straw man so much.
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But I don't have a problem?

I just said I had a hard time running all core clocks, I should have said I had a hard time running over 4750 :D

But she boosts to the tippy top, and she handles all core stuff ok on her own. My probably is I cant bench at 4800 all core lol. It gets hot, and uses most if not all the power the socket will give. I'll go with most because there is always room for more. I should put my sig back in and maybe my specs. For all you know I could have a Celeron.

Edit:

My probably is :D :D

I mean my problem is..
 
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