Dell Workstation Owners Club

[imrazor]

So I decided to try a dumb experiment and try to run Cyberpunk on my old T5500 (dual X5687s + AMD R9 Fury). And things actually turned out well, hitting 60+ fps on Medium settings - but only in Linux. With Windows I was only able to hit 35 fps or so, or 45 fps if I used some hacked drivers for the Fury (NimeZ driver.) See below ....

Still seeing some occasional slowdowns, especially in "Photo Mode", though things are mostly smooth. I'm suspecting that I'm running out of VRAM occasionally - the Fury only has 4GB.

 

[Retrorockit]

So I decided to try a dumb experiment and try to run Cyberpunk on my old T5500 (dual X5687s + AMD R9 Fury). And things actually turned out well, hitting 60+ fps on Medium settings - but only in Linux. With Windows I was only able to hit 35 fps or so, or 45 fps if I used some hacked drivers for the Fury (NimeZ driver.) See below ....

Still seeing some occasional slowdowns, especially in "Photo Mode", though things are mostly smooth. I'm suspecting that I'm running out of VRAM occasionally - the Fury only has 4GB.

You might be able to use Thrrottlestop to get full multiplier on all cores.

 

[Retrorockit]

You might be able to use Thrrottlestop to get full multiplier on all cores.

I guess TS probably needs Windows to run. But if you ask in one of the Throttlestop threads, Unclewebb the developer of TS might know how to do it in Linux?

 

[imrazor]

@Retrorockit X-class Xeons (CPUs designed to be used in pairs) are usually locked down tight. Of Nehalem Xeons, I think only W3690 (maybe the W3680) will let you mess with multipliers or turbo settings.

 

[Retrorockit]

@Retrorockit X-class Xeons (CPUs designed to be used in pairs) are usually locked down tight. Of Nehalem Xeons, I think only W3690 (maybe the W3680) will let you mess with multipliers or turbo settings.

The unlocked W Xeons allow actual multiplier overclocking with Throttlestop on Dells,, but won't work in a 2 CPU configuration. But some people claim to get full turbo speed on all cores on the locked X series CPUs.
Sometimes it's a BIOS hack, sometimes Throttlestop can do it. A lot seems to depend on the BIOS. On the X5687 this would be 3.89GHz on 16 threads. It costs nothing to try this in Windows. In Linux most people just read back the CPU spec. sheet to you and say it can't be done. The multiplier for turbo speed is already there. The trick is to apply it to all cores. TS might make this possible.
I haven't tried this myself because I always just use the unlocked CPUs

 

[imrazor]

I always just use the unlocked CPUs

I would have too, but the platform I started with (Dell T5500) doesn't support the W-class Xeons at all. A T3500 will allow you to drop in a W3690, but is limited to 24GB RAM max, and I wanted more than that.

As to Linux overclocking, I found a neat tool to OC Zen 1 & 2 (maybe Zen 3 too?) processors in Linux, and use it pretty regularly. See here:

Overclock your Ryzen CPU from Linux

So you’ve probably heard of Ryzen Master? Except you happen to use Linux. What’s there to do? Well with this little python application and the help of MSR’s (Model Specific Registers) on Ryzen CPU’s you can manually overclock your Ryzen processor. While it’s running! 1. Load 2 kernel modules...

forum.level1techs.com

But for Intel I have no idea...

 

[Retrorockit]

I would have too, but the platform I started with (Dell T5500) doesn't support the W-class Xeons at all. A T3500 will allow you to drop in a W3690, but is limited to 24GB RAM max, and I wanted more than that.

As to Linux overclocking, I found a neat tool to OC Zen 1 & 2 (maybe Zen 3 too?) processors in Linux, and use it pretty regularly. See here:

Overclock your Ryzen CPU from Linux

So you’ve probably heard of Ryzen Master? Except you happen to use Linux. What’s there to do? Well with this little python application and the help of MSR’s (Model Specific Registers) on Ryzen CPU’s you can manually overclock your Ryzen processor. While it’s running! 1. Load 2 kernel modules...

forum.level1techs.com

But for Intel I have no idea...

The X-58 chipset supports 48GB. It's very common for Dell to not update their RAM capacity as larger modules become available. They're not going to go back and certify the larger capacity for older systems. You can almost always double the listed capacity on older Dells.
BIOS A17 is used here.

Moron this here.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Green+PC+gamers+T3500

I just found this thread which is completely new to me. A T3500 @4.17GHz using something called Clover. Seems to be OSX grabbing fsb control on a T3500!
I think OSX is Linux based.

Overclocking the goold olde T3500...

I always thought there was no way to overclock the Xeon due to locked msr in Bios, but tonight I found I can ramp up my W3680 to over 4,2 Ghz just using clover. This seems to improve rendering times by some 25-30% ! (Geekbench3 bump from 14000 to over 17000). I`ll strap an extra fan onto the cpu ...

osxlatitude.com

Looks like a Hackintosh forum. I'd love to see this on 2-X5687s.

 

[imrazor]

The X-58 chipset supports 48GB. It's very common for Dell to not update their RAM capacity as larger modules become available. They're not going to go back and certify the larger capacity for older systems. You can almost always double the listed capacity on older Dells.
BIOS A17 is used here.

Moron this here.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Green+PC+gamers+T3500

I just found this thread which is completely new to me. A T3500 @4.17GHz using something called Clover. Seems to be OSX grabbing fsb control on a T3500!
I think OSX is Linux based.

Overclocking the goold olde T3500...

I always thought there was no way to overclock the Xeon due to locked msr in Bios, but tonight I found I can ramp up my W3680 to over 4,2 Ghz just using clover. This seems to improve rendering times by some 25-30% ! (Geekbench3 bump from 14000 to over 17000). I`ll strap an extra fan onto the cpu ...

osxlatitude.com

Looks like a Hackintosh forum. I'd love to see this on 2-X5687s.

Well that's cool. I do note that the video states that registered DIMMS are 1/4 the price of 'regular' DDR3 memory, so there's that.

Played with Hackintoshes a long time ago...while forcing OS X to run on non-native hardware works, it's usually janky and before running an update it's usually advisable to pray and sacrifice a couple of goats. Otherwise...

 

[Retrorockit]

Well that's cool. I do note that the video states that registered DIMMS are 1/4 the price of 'regular' DDR3 memory, so there's that.

Stuff that doesn't work is always cheaper.

There was a guy at OCN overclocking a T7500. He said that the SATA bus would crash when he moved the fsb with SetFSB. He added a PCI HDD controller to get around that. I'm not sure how far that got him.

 

[imrazor]

Stuff that doesn't work is always cheaper.

Ah, but registered DIMMs *do* work in a T5500. So upgrading to stupid amounts of RAM in the T5500 is much cheaper than a T3500. Of course, it is much harder (impossible?) to overclock a T5500.

Question about memory for Dell Precision T3500 | DELL Technologies

Does the T3500 use ECC Registered or Unregistered memory? Compatible with both?

www.dell.com

 

[lexluthermiester]

Well that's cool. I do note that the video states that registered DIMMS are 1/4 the price of 'regular' DDR3 memory, so there's that.

You should be using ECC with the T3500 to get the most out of it.

Ah, but registered DIMMs *do* work in a T5500. So upgrading to stupid amounts of RAM in the T5500 is much cheaper than a T3500. Of course, it is much harder (impossible?) to overclock a T5500.

Question about memory for Dell Precision T3500 | DELL Technologies

Does the T3500 use ECC Registered or Unregistered memory? Compatible with both?

www.dell.com

This is true. But then there's no support for W3680/W3690, so no softOC for the T5500.

 

[imrazor]

There was a guy at OCN overclocking a T7500. He said that the SATA bus would crash when he moved the fsb with SetFSB

I once got a T5400 to OC with SetFSB, but could not replicate that success with a T5500. I may have had the wrong clock chip, or some other parameter configured incorrectly. What is OCN, and do you have a direct link for the posting?

 

[Retrorockit]

I once got a T5400 to OC with SetFSB, but could not replicate that success with a T5500. I may have had the wrong clock chip, or some other parameter configured incorrectly. What is OCN, and do you have a direct link for the posting?

How To : Overclocking Dual Xeon Dell Precision T7500

www.overclock.net

OCN=Overclock.Net
I looked into RDIMMs, at 2 per channel they're about 8% faster latency and bandwidth than 2 per channel UDIMMs. So you're looking good there.

 

[frigider]

So I decided to try a dumb experiment and try to run Cyberpunk on my old T5500 (dual X5687s + AMD R9 Fury). And things actually turned out well, hitting 60+ fps on Medium settings - but only in Linux. With Windows I was only able to hit 35 fps or so, or 45 fps if I used some hacked drivers for the Fury (NimeZ driver.) See below ....

Still seeing some occasional slowdowns, especially in "Photo Mode", though things are mostly smooth. I'm suspecting that I'm running out of VRAM occasionally - the Fury only has 4GB.

damn.
in my head and i guess many people's heads Linux != games.
didn't even know there was steam for linux. (don't game pretty much at all)

anyway, after such elevated discussions like the one above i feel stupid to come with semi-retarded questions like

"does the pcie nvme adapter matter when it comes to booting from said nvme?"

i saw some comments that some require drivers , some don't etc.

so i guess i will just need to buy one, see if it boots - return if not?

 

[Retrorockit]

The Mac Pro was LGA1366 back in the day. So the Mac forums may have some relevant concepts for workstation modders.
But looking into it further MacOS is not Linux based. They're both Unix based and can run Unix commands, but that's about it as far as I can tell.
I have shopped Mac LGA1366 stores and found some deals.

 

[TechyTed]

Ok, my Dell T3500 (5500 mb installed) has gone flakey on me.

This is a T3500 that I had upgraded to a T5500 Motherboard.

And all of a sudden it quit working. Dead. No power light on.

So, I swapped power supplies then started getting a pre-POST error - an amber power light, and two blinking LEDs on the front panel (1 and 2).

According to the Dell service manual, that means there is a regulator failure. Most probably on the motherboad.

So, I swapped out the T5500 motherboard for the original T3500 motherboard (and it has it's own CPU/RAM so that was not the issue).

STILL getting the same pre-POST error - amber power light and two blinking LEDs (1 and 2).

Hmmm...any idea of what is happening? I searched the web a bit, and could not find anyone who had the exact same problem.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Ok, my Dell T3500 (5500 mb installed) has gone flakey on me.

This is a T3500 that I had upgraded to a T5500 Motherboard.

And all of a sudden it quit working. Dead. No power light on.

So, I swapped power supplies then started getting a pre-POST error - an amber power light, and two blinking LEDs on the front panel (1 and 2).

According to the Dell service manual, that means there is a regulator failure. Most probably on the motherboad.

So, I swapped out the T5500 motherboard for the original T3500 motherboard (and it has it's own CPU/RAM so that was not the issue).

STILL getting the same pre-POST error - amber power light and two blinking LEDs (1 and 2).

Hmmm...any idea of what is happening? I searched the web a bit, and could not find anyone who had the exact same problem.

That might be a front panel connector problem. Disconnect the front panel and bridge the power switch directly to power up. Post what it says or take a screen shot with a camera, if it posts.

 

[imrazor]

damn.
in my head and i guess many people's heads Linux != games.
didn't even know there was steam for linux. (don't game pretty much at all)

anyway, after such elevated discussions like the one above i feel stupid to come with semi-retarded questions like

"does the pcie nvme adapter matter when it comes to booting from said nvme?"

i saw some comments that some require drivers , some don't etc.

so i guess i will just need to buy one, see if it boots - return if not?

So if we're talking about the Tx500 Dell Precision series, an NVMe drive will almost certainly not boot. NVMe booting requires UEFI firmware, which machines this old just don't have. This applies to Linux and Windows.

I've tried and gotten nowhere. That said, it should still be able to function as *storage* drive, but not a boot drive. (One possible exception: I believe some Samsung NVMe SSDs have BIOS boot code that could potentially allow booting on a non-UEFI system like the T3500/T5500/T7500.)

Knew some of this already, but also got some of it from here: https://www.quora.com/Can-you-use-an-NVMe-drive-in-a-legacy-system-non-UEFI

 

[lexluthermiester]

So if we're talking about the Tx500 Dell Precision series, an NVMe drive will almost certainly not boot.

It will if it has a boot ROM.

NVMe booting requires UEFI firmware, which machines this old just don't have.

No, it requires a boot ROM. Nothing special about NVMe otherwise.

That said, it should still be able to function as *storage* drive, but not a boot drive.

True, if the NVMe PCIe card has no boot ROM, the drive will still be seen by the OS and can be addressed.

Knew some of this already, but also got some of it from here: https://www.quora.com/Can-you-use-an-NVMe-drive-in-a-legacy-system-non-UEFI

Any PCIe NVMe card that has a properly configured boot ROM can emulate the EFI DXE commands and boot and an NVMe drive. It just not a high demand functionality scheme so there are few examples of it, but it can be done.

 

[imrazor]

Intel and Dell beg to differ.

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/documents/ssdc/hpssd/sb/nvme_boot_guide_332098001us.pdf#%5B%7B%22num%22%3A29%2C%22gen%22%3A0%7D%2C%7B%22name%22%3A%22XYZ%22%7D%2C20%2C632%2C0%5D

From the above:

In order to support the required UEFI NVMe driver, your system’s firmware must be based on UEFI 2.3.1 or later.
If your system was purchased after 2012 or shipped with Windows* 8 pre-installed, it most likely supports UEFI. Check with your
system vendor to verify.

What Are PCIe SSDs and How to Use Them As a Boot Drive for a Dell Computer | Dell US

And from Dell:

Supported BIOS Types​

The UEFI BIOS is currently the only one which supports these devices.

Are both of these vendors wrong? One makes the systems we're talking about, and the other makes (or did make) SSDs.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Intel and Dell beg to differ.

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/documents/ssdc/hpssd/sb/nvme_boot_guide_332098001us.pdf#%5B%7B%22num%22%3A29%2C%22gen%22%3A0%7D%2C%7B%22name%22%3A%22XYZ%22%7D%2C20%2C632%2C0%5D

From the above:

What Are PCIe SSDs and How to Use Them As a Boot Drive for a Dell Computer | Dell US

And from Dell:


Are both of these vendors wrong? One makes the systems we're talking about, and the other makes (or did make) SSDs.

As I said, it is not common, but emulating the UEFI functions in a non-UEFI system can be done. Intel and Dell are NOT the end all, be all of the answers to what is possible. Intel and Dell would tell you that installing 48GB of RAM in a T3500 is not possible, yet it happens and works perfectly.

 

[imrazor]

@lexluthermiester As far as I know, this is the only NVMe device (and it's 512GB sibling) that can successfully boot on a BIOS system. And that knowledge comes third hand.

Obviously these prices are rather steep. If you know of any others, especially ones at reasonable prices, I'd love to hear about them.

SSD 950 PRO NVMe 256GB Memory & Storage - MZ-V5P256BW | Samsung US

Discover the latest features and innovations available in the SSD 950 PRO NVMe 256GB. Find the perfect Memory & Storage for you!

www.samsung.com

 

[frigider]

It will if it has a boot ROM.

tx for the info.

so if the 7810 has UEFI it will boot of any nvme pcie adapter regardless if it has boot ROM or not?

 

[lexluthermiester]

@lexluthermiester As far as I know, this is the only NVMe device (and it's 512GB sibling) that can successfully boot on a BIOS system. And that knowledge comes third hand.

Obviously these prices are rather steep. If you know of any others, especially ones at reasonable prices, I'd love to hear about them.

SSD 950 PRO NVMe 256GB Memory & Storage - MZ-V5P256BW | Samsung US

Discover the latest features and innovations available in the SSD 950 PRO NVMe 256GB. Find the perfect Memory & Storage for you!

www.samsung.com

Again, you're misunderstanding. In the same way you can install a bootable SATA PCI card into a system that never had SATA ports, you can install a bootable NVMe PCIe card to a system that never had NVMe ports. The important component is the adapter card. As long as it has a boot ROM with code that supports NVMe, and NVMe drive can boot any PCIe equipped system. It's about the engineering.

For example, the following cards can be used for bootable NVMe in non-UEFI systems as they have their own boot ROM.

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Dual-PCIe-Adapter-Card/dp/B081SJYCTL

https://www.amazon.com/Dual-Adapter-RIITOP-Support-22110/dp/B08P57G1JW

https://www.amazon.com/CREST-SI-PEX40129-Ports-Bifurcation-Controller/dp/B07HYZY7P2

https://www.amazon.com/High-Point-SSD7101A-1-Dedicated-Controller/dp/B073W71K4Z

This is not a total list of NVMe PCIe cards out there that can boot NVMe drive on both UEFI and Legacy BIOS systems.

so if the 7810 has UEFI it will boot of any nvme pcie adapter regardless if it has boot ROM or not?

The adapter card will need a boot ROM for booting an NVMe drive on that system.

 

[frigider]

The adapter card will need a boot ROM for booting an NVMe drive on that system.

pure gold.
thanks!